Sabre 2

[Hunterbeav 0]

Hi Raftman....safire 2 how are you wing loading it...how do you like the flaring on the canopy....I was researching the safire 3. Thanks

[raftman 12]

I'm loading it at 1.6. Love the flare in any and all conditions.

[shadeland 5]

raftman

Sabre 1 is a great canopy! I put over 2000 jumps on mine. There was only 1 time it smacked me hard enough to remember. It's all how you pack it. Then I put 1700 jumps on the Safire 1, another great canopy for openings. Jumping a Safire 2 now.

I would caution people on that. The problem, I believe, with (most/many?) original sabres was the slider. Hence the fix for most of them is to replace/modify the slider (i jumped a Sabre 150 with a slider from a Pilot 210 on it, and it opened fine).

Packing techniques such as rolling the nose will not slow a catastrophic opening if you end up with bottom skin inflation.

[raftman 12]

Just relaying my experience with the canopy. YMMV

[timrf79 0]

lyosha

***I had Sabre 2 in 230, 190, 170 and 150. At exit weight of 230 - 270
The openings depend somewhat on the pack job.

The 170, loaded at 1.6 will turn closed end cells in a very fast spiral. I usually can't wait for them to open by themselves.

The 190 at 1.3 had the best openings, no end cell closures and on heading (it was in a rig for 190-230; loose but safe fit).

I also had a 170 Sabre, VERY DIFFERENT than a Sabre 2.

At what wingloading do you think it had the best flare?
Flare gets better the higher the WL goes, as teh forward speeds goes up and flare transforms forward speed into upward speed.
However due to the timing of the flare, more speed means your room for error gets smaller.

I found the 230 had too much toggle pressure and could make flaring all the way hard (depending on brake length setting).
The 150 is wicked fast and not for the faint of hearted.
The 170 brings the risk that too much flare on a straight in will lift you up.
The 190 (WL 1.3) is what I would consider the best compromise.
You can get speed with a 90 degree double FR turn, you can land softly from slow flight, or go in straight and safe.
Please note this is in regard to a DZ altitude of ~1k feet over MSL

[dpreguy 14]

angryelf
Must disagree about listing the Pulse with the other canopies mentioned. In my opinion: The Pulse has less than half of the flare power for landing than the others listed. Have borrowed one and jumped it a couple of times. Pathetic. Have jumped most of the others listed. Although they vary, they have good/adequate flare power for landing. The Pulse? Not even close. Opens ok, flies ok, But for landing it is a dud. This is my opinion.

[Hunterbeav 0]

skiNEwhere

If this helps, here's a video of my Sabre2 170 loaded around 1.3 opening up. Normally it don't open with this much of a twist, but it usually doesn't open on heading. I always have to pump the risers to bring the slider down as well. Love everything else about the canopy though. As other have said the flare is very strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jht065RBA8M&t=25s

Thanks for the video....what a beautiful place to jump....wow....do you get a lot of ruff air coming into the valley...I am looking hard at 2 canopies...the safire 3 and the sabre 2....leaning towards the sabre 2...thanks again

[Cloggy 1]

I have about 700 jumps on my Sabre2 170 (WL 1.3~1.4) and I still like this canopy a lot, good fun to fly and with enough margin to keep me from hurting myself too much
Heavy on the front risers, for that a 150 would be better for me.

I see the usual Sabre-2 characteristics too: slightly off-heading openings (usually within a 90 degree sector, not as much as in the video above). It never opened in line twists, never a hard opening. Sometimes a quick tug on the risers to get the slider down. Snivelly openings, but nothing ridiculous: takes around 600ft.
And the end cells: I don't think about them, if they are closed they open as soon as I grab the toggles.
On a long spot it takes some work to make it 'float' by pulling rear risers.

Sabre-1: I would not even jump it if I got paid . Made 25 jumps and got really whacked two times: one a sore neck, and one sore neck and bruised ribs.

As a rigger told me once: don't trust a jumper who says his canopy is the best: as it's probably the only canopy he knows.
Definitely try to demo the canopies you're considering. I don't think you can go wrong with either Safire2/3 or Sabre2, I guess they are in the same class and jumpers seem to like both. There are some differences in flaring and flying, which you may make you prefer one or the other.

[RMURRAY 1]

sabre1 with a dome slider from skyworks rigging is overall a very good canopy.

[Cloggy 1]

RMURRAY

sabre1 with a dome slider from skyworks rigging is overall a very good canopy.

I can only give my experiences with Sabre-1. Apparently it can be fixed, but considering the advances made in aerodynamics on more modern canopies, why bother with an old design?

[Pobrause 6]

Because you could get a nicely opening, strong flaring and overall rather reliable, sporty canopy for less then $500, slidermod included and often with only a few hundred jumps. The aerodynamical developments of recent designs in the same class as the Sabre are minor and most people are not taking advantage of them anyways.
There are many good reasons to stick with a Sabre.

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[Cloggy 1]

OK, I admit I didn't really take the lower wingload of ~1.1 into account, I suppose at that wingload the aerodynamics don't play a big role anyway. And you got a point there that many people don't use or explore the full capabilities of a canopy.
Still, I'd say they are very different canopies and imo the Sabre-2 is a step up in many ways from the original Sabre re. turning and flaring.

But at those prices, a cheap Sabre-1 that's not too ragged out, could be a good way to get back into the sport. Just jump it for a while and rebuild piloting experience and feeling. It would give time to demo other canopies at your own pace and delay a bigger (financial) decision until you got a better idea for what you're looking in a next canopy. It'll probably sell at a similar price to what was paid.
Or stick with the Sabre-1 if it ticks all boxes.

[BigMark 1]

I recently provided a Sabre 1 to someone who has invented many things in the Skydiving world. (he had a sore knee and needed the nice landings)

[flexhead 0]

Hi Jim, welcome back to the sport. Lots of good comments on this thread for you about the Sabre-2 and from what I can see all pretty accurate. I like the Sabre-2 for a lot of jumpers at your level, but I didn't see anyone recommend that you try to demo one and some other models to be sure before you spend a bunch of money. For a nominal fee (mostly used for shipping and inspection upon return), most manufacturers will send you a demo canopy to try for up to 2 weeks. Besides the Sabre-2, you might like a Safire 3, S-Fire or Pilot. They tend to have nicer openings but a little less power, speed and flare. I've been teaching canopy control for years and can assist you with that if you want.

[Hunterbeav 0]

flexhead

Hi Jim, welcome back to the sport. Lots of good comments on this thread for you about the Sabre-2 and from what I can see all pretty accurate. I like the Sabre-2 for a lot of jumpers at your level, but I didn't see anyone recommend that you try to demo one and some other models to be sure before you spend a bunch of money. For a nominal fee (mostly used for shipping and inspection upon return), most manufacturers will send you a demo canopy to try for up to 2 weeks. Besides the Sabre-2, you might like a Safire 3, S-Fire or Pilot. They tend to have nicer openings but a little less power, speed and flare. I've been teaching canopy control for years and can assist you with that if you want.

Thanks Flex it's definitely between the safire 3 and the sabre 2...I will demo both before buying. Do you think the aerodynamics is better on the safire 3 (cleaner air foil) ?

[Maddingo 21]

Do yourself a favor and add the Volt canopy on your demo list. It is one of those canopies that is heavily underrated but stacks up easily to the big three in the class.

[angryelf 0]

@ DPRE Guy-Good to know. I made a handful of jumps on a Pulse 190 years ago. with steep 90's on fronts I found the canopy flared ok... Never attempted a straight in landing on it, so your input carries more weight for a conservative final approach. The highlight of the wing was that a friend packed one toggle stowed and the other un-stowed for my first jump on the canopy. The opening in that (less than ideal configuration) was incredibly docile, which impressed me. As far as canopy flight performance I would put the Pulse in a similar category to the Silhouette.

On a side note about canopies with less than great bottom-end flare authority; what is your opinion of the Epicene/WS specific canopies? I find that most do not flare well. Haven't jumped a Horizon yet, but am curious.

Cheers,

-Harry

"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

[Unstable 8]

Quote

Do yourself a favor and add the Volt canopy on your demo list. It is one of those canopies that is heavily underrated but stacks up easily to the big three in the class.

+1. I have never owned a Volt but put about 20 jumps on a 150 and 170. Good canopies. I would say more powerful flare than a Pilot and a little quicker arc recovery than the Sabre2. Good Canopy.

=========Shaun ==========

[HansVanBael 1]

Had a Sabre 1 150: flew awesome, hard openings
Have a Sabre 2 150 loaded at 1.61 (yep,that exceeds the warning label, I know)
The Sabre 2: has good,predictable openings (Never on heading but on the other hand I've only had line twists on it 2 times, both on wingsuit jumps)
It has fun flying characteristics and a very good flare. A 90° front riser turn initiated somewhere between 300 and 400 feet results in a nice (not canopypiloting-like) swoop that gets the adrenaline going up a bit on the average weekend jumper. When I try to make a front riser turn more than 90° the riser pressure gets to high and I can't hold it.

This year I also tried a Parachute Systems Volt 150. It flies as fun as a Sabre, did have on-heading openings (even when packed like shit because I'm not used to packing brand new gear) and it had a very good flare (also loaded at 1.61 obviously)
The main difference is that the Volt does not swoop when using front riser input. But if your bones are getting older, and you don't need that little swoop for the added excitement at the end of your jump....I would definitly go with the Volt. I have some buddies using them for wingsuiting all the time.In my opinion that is a good reference for opening consistency :o)

[HansVanBael 1]

Maddingo

Do yourself a favor and add the Volt canopy on your demo list. It is one of those canopies that is heavily underrated but stacks up easily to the big three in the class.

100% true.
I just assembled a complete summer bundle by Parachute Systems and the quality/price ratio is unbelievable.
Very descent harness/container, the reserve is extremely easy to pack (in my honest opinion) and the VOLT main canopy is very high quality as well.
And, in my opinion this can not be mentioned enough, the way the company handled the Vortex recall program has never been seen before. Much respect for that one.

[dpreguy 14]

Have not jumped the Epicene WS. (showing my ignorance here ) who makes it?

[keithbar 1]

dpreguy

Have not jumped the Epicene WS. (showing my ignorance here ) who makes it?

. Squirrel

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[dpreguy 14]

Squirrel makes canopies?

[angryelf 0]

They make a whole line of BASE canopies and one “low bulk WS canopy specifically for skydiving” called the Epicene. Obviously it works fine on normal jumps, but IMO it’s a pig once the slider comes down. Openings are good, flight performance is what you would expect from a scaled down BASE 7 -cell and landings are a bit “foot-slappy”/lacking in forward speed or bottom-end flare power. PD’s new Horizon is designed to compete with it, which will be interesting as all the Squirrel fan boys love their Epicene’s.

"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

[Unstable 8]

Quote

They make a whole line of BASE canopies and one “low bulk WS canopy specifically for skydiving” called the Epicene. Obviously it works fine on normal jumps, but IMO it’s a pig once the slider comes down. Openings are good, flight performance is what you would expect from a scaled down BASE 7 -cell and landings are a bit “foot-slappy”/lacking in forward speed or bottom-end flare power. PD’s new Horizon is designed to compete with it, which will be interesting as all the Squirrel fan boys love their Epicene’s.

I agree with your assessment. There are some forces in skydiving (and particularly in the Skydiving Marketplace) that I just don't understand. This is one of them. For any characteristic desired you could easily find a better and pre-exiting canopy on the market.

=========Shaun ==========