What is "Low" for a planned pull altitude (not you, but an "other" experienced jumper)

[keithbar 1]

I have been accused of pulling low before at least once. I just say naw I wasn't low. I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[Sabrekakkonen 0]

IMO low pull is when you are below fully opened canopy below 600m /2000ft.
It means you must throw your pc at 750m or higher, depends on canopy.

Once i intentionally pulled low and canopy was open at 500m

[obelixtim 127]

keithbar

I have been accused of pulling low before at least once. I just say naw I wasn't low. I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am

You can't deny it when they can see the whites of your eyes!

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[timrf79 0]

I don't like to pull below 4k.

Here is why:
If everything goes as planned canopy fully open at 3.3k.
Stowing slider, opening chest strap, arranging in harness, open helmet, check steer ability -> 2.5k

This leaves me only 1k to get into a solid landing pattern and slot in with traffic.

Which means If I pull at 4k, and have any issue I got 1k to resolve it.
1k under no canopy ->5 seconds
Spinning or otherwise issue -> 10 seconds
Fully working canopy -> 30 seconds

[billvon 2,689]

Quote

I don't like to pull below 4k.

Here is why:
If everything goes as planned canopy fully open at 3.3k.
Stowing slider, opening chest strap, arranging in harness, open helmet, check steer ability -> 2.5k
This leaves me only 1k to get into a solid landing pattern and slot in with traffic.

Sounds like a good plan. Opening high is no problem at all (within reason of course*) as long as you coordinate with the DZ and the other jumpers to make sure that the high pull doesn't cause problems for the next group (or load, or airplane.) In my experience 99% of the time it can be accommodated.


(* - parachute reefing systems don't work as well when you get MUCH higher, like >10K. But that's not usually a concern.)

[fcajump 157]

obelixtim

You can't deny it when they can see the whites of your eyes!

I have seen the white of someone's chestmount altimeter (from the ground). Within seconds he had two canopies.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[wolfriverjoe 1,455]

I've been around a few years, and learned by Static Line, so I tend to have an "old guy" view.

Personally, I pull at 3k. I've had a couple long snivels, spinning line twists, spinning deployments from brake fires, hard pulls that took a few seconds, ect, where I've been down to about 2k as the lowest when open. I didn't have any big issues with it, and pulling down there (pitching around 2500) wouldn't bother me.

When I started, lots of guys pulled around 2k. Some lower ("I pulled at 2k, that's my story and I'm sticking to it). Having gear that is known and trusted, being sharp and current on EPs and being ready to execute them instantly when needed are all important when pulling that low. The guys who routinely pulled "lowish" were all pretty clear on that. They were doing it, but not doing it without thinking it through and understanding it. A few of them had cutaways that they said wouldn't have been needed if they were higher. As in "If I had pulled at 3, I would have had altitude to deal with it, but I didn't, so I got rid of it."

The raising of the USPA minimums (waivable by an S&T A) is far more for the AAD and H/C manufacturers than " safety." There haven't been a whole lot of low pull incidents*, but there have been a number of AAD fire, but reserve not out ones. Raising AAD activation altitudes is only possible if the minimum pull altitudes are also raised. In general, I don't have a problem with the minimums being higher.

Overall, pulling low is far less common than it was in years past.

*Low pulls (down to about 2k) don't seem to be much of a factor in the incidents. Chops with no reserve usually seem to happen where either the chop is way too low, or with the chop high enough to get the reserve out, but for what ever reason, the reserve doesn't come out high enough.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ufk22 32]

sammielu

My personal opinion is that pull altitude is timed for group jumps (i.e. break off at 4500, turn, track 5 sec, wave, reach, pull in another 5 sec so estimated pull altitude is 3500' with reinforcement by checking altimeter during reach/pull, and acknowledging that actual pull/open data only comes from technology like a flysight, not your memory of which way the needle on your altimeter was pointed)... and then we usually talk about altitude loss per second and how many seconds someone wants to have to save their life when shit happens.

break at 4500’- 10 seconds=2500’ deployment, not 3500’.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[Channman 2]

wmw999

I said under 2000'. Not because I pull there, but because I think that for nearly any modern gear anything below that takes special preparation. I pack for a quick opening, so while 2000' doesn't really bother me, I generally pull about 3000', and since I upsized recently, am one of the last to land.

2500' is a good lower end for BSR now I think. But just as a safe speed might be above the speed limit, I think a safe opening can be planned down to about 2000'. Margin of error is always nice.

Wendy P.

Wendy way late into this conversation, however was ready Bill's post and I think...just me you should be opened at a Hard Deck of 2,500 feet unless your pulling handles looking for a reserve. My thoughts are this...we had an incident back 8-9 years ago where a jumper pulled at roughly 2,500 feet ending in a Bag Lock...with that malfunction you don't have time to look and think about it. Your better be chopping and pulling because feet down your accelerating.

The outcome of the jumper didn't end well.

[ixlr82 7]

Chanman, I'm going to quote Wendy's second paragraph because it seems you didn't actually pay attention to what she said when you posted.

"2500' is a good lower end for BSR now I think. But just as a safe speed might be above the speed limit, I think a safe opening can be planned down to about 2000'. Margin of error is always nice".

A baglock or a no pull needs immediate emergency procedures, no doubt. However, it can be PLANNED, even down to 2000 feet. The outer ring of belly big ways have been pulling at 2k for decades. If you have an AAD and/or high performance main it means you have to be extremely responsive to initiate EP's.

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[tbrown 26]

I assume we're talking about terminal openings here.
Back forty years ago we'd breakoff 8 - 10 Ways at 3500 and for something bigger, like a 16 Way we'd break at 4 grand to be on the safe side. I was once on a 36 Way that broke off in 3 waves, at 4500, 3500, and 3 grand, with everyone told to track to 2 grand. It was all by the book too, pretty much.

I'm not jumping anymore, but in this century I was comfortable with the 4500 ft breakoffs and 4 grand for 4 Way. Usually my pull alarm (set for 3 grand) would go off at line stretch, as my canopy was shaking itself out. On some of the bigger ways (24 - 40 Way) we were told not to pull above 3 grand and that was fine with me. I'm fine with the 2500 ft. minimum too. Even in the old days I didn't like the size of mother earth at 2 grand. My second time around in the sport I only pulled below 2 grand once, but that was another story... A month later my wife gave me an audible for a birthday present.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !