When my landing pattern does not align with their landing pattern.

[GoGoGadget 0]

Had a less than pleasant landing last weekend. I am 3rd in the pattern watching the two ahead of me on the downwind leg. They both go past where I would have turned in for my base leg. I am flying a lightly loaded Pilot 210 9cell. So I move slow which is good for a newb. I did not turn in on my base leg fearing I would be cutting across them when they turned in on their final. I really don't want to be THAT guy. So I went longer on my downwind than I wanted, following the number 2 canopy, but was a little high and thought I could make it work. I screwed myself in the process. I quickly realized that I was not going to be able to follow her all the way. My flight characteristics were greatly different and I was losing altitude. So I turned onto my base leg and made it a very short base leg and headed for the landing area. It looked like I was not going to make it back so I started looking at our nearby outs. I put it down in a tight spot right at the edge of the landing area. Got some turbulence as I was coming past the hangar so I was making course corrections all the way down and did not get a good flare. I slid it in on my butt which would have been no big deal except for the manhole cover that tore my hand up and left me a pretty good bruise on my hip.

I screw up and get hurt, I can deal with that. I screw up and get someone else hurt, that is much harder to live with.

Was my fear of cutting them off valid given vertical separation between the base leg and final leg? Should I have just turned in on my base and let them work around me if it came to it? Maybe I was other thinking it. I guess if I am on my base leg and see someone approaching on their final with an intercept course, I can just turn on my final and I will be ahead of them.

[Westerly 61]

I would follow whatever the preset DZ landing pattern is. If you are following the rules and they are not by failing to execute a proper pattern, that's on them. I have on occasion extended my downwind leg because I was a bit high, and then circled back for my final. I would not be pissed at the guy behind me for cutting in at the proper distance if I decided to extend my downwind leg. The main thing is just make sure you look over your shoulder before making any turn to ensure you're not about to run into someone. Avoiding a canopy collision is very important.

[countzero 7]

If you aren't causing issues for anyone behind you, one thing you could have done is to hold in brakes. You would not have covered as much distance following them waiting for them to turn downwind to base leg. Once they turn onto base leg you can wait a few seconds and make a braked turn for your base leg. Using the brakes this way creates more horizontal and vertical distance between you and them.

By the time they turn base leg to final you'd be about half way through your base leg. Then a braked turn onto final when you're ready, hands all the way up letting it fly to come in for a nice stand up landing. And those guys you gave that extra space too are probably already walking back to the packing room.

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[mxk 1]

I'm not entirely certain of what pattern you were flying, assuming this was at Orange. Left-hand to the east and ended up landing short north of the hangar (next to the parking lot)? If so, then yes, you should have turned much earlier.

Regardless of the landing direction, it's a very long field. Some people will land closer to the hangar on one side of the ditch and others closer to the peas, so your target will determine your overall pattern and base turn. There is no way you would have caused any issues for the other two jumpers if you turned just past the ditch while they continued beyond the hangar (that's what the situation sounds like to me, but please correct any wrong assumptions on my part).

Trying to avoid others is good, but not at the cost of backing yourself into a corner where you no longer have any outs. That usually means changing your plan earlier rather than waiting to see if the current questionable situation will resolve on its own. Try to anticipate what the others will do and adjust your plan so that you don't end up at the same place at the same altitude at the same time. In your situation that might have meant turning to base earlier, flying a longer base leg, and landing on the south side of the field, or possibly flying a short base leg and extending your final. Especially while you're still learning what your canopy is capable of in different wind conditions, leave yourself extra margin of error for both overshoot and undershoot situations.

[tikl68 6]

It is good that you are being very aware under canopy, but you did answer your own question. If you had turned onto your base leg when you thought you should have, and they turned onto their base leg right after you did, while watching this,cutting your base leg short, and turning to final would have most likely put you out in front of them far enough to not be an issue as you suspected. But good job at minimizing the potential carnage.

[GoGoGadget 0]

mxk

I'm not entirely certain of what pattern you were flying, assuming this was at Orange. Left-hand to the east and ended up landing short north of the hangar (next to the parking lot)? If so, then yes, you should have turned much earlier.

Regardless of the landing direction, it's a very long field. Some people will land closer to the hangar on one side of the ditch and others closer to the peas, so your target will determine your overall pattern and base turn. There is no way you would have caused any issues for the other two jumpers if you turned just past the ditch while they continued beyond the hangar (that's what the situation sounds like to me, but please correct any wrong assumptions on my part).

Trying to avoid others is good, but not at the cost of backing yourself into a corner where you no longer have any outs. That usually means changing your plan earlier rather than waiting to see if the current questionable situation will resolve on its own. Try to anticipate what the others will do and adjust your plan so that you don't end up at the same place at the same altitude at the same time. In your situation that might have meant turning to base earlier, flying a longer base leg, and landing on the south side of the field, or possibly flying a short base leg and extending your final. Especially while you're still learning what your canopy is capable of in different wind conditions, leave yourself extra margin of error for both overshoot and undershoot situations.

Yup. Left hand at SDO. I normally do my base over the hangar or preferably, just shy of it so I have the whole field under me for final. The two ahead of me went over the airport office building. Had I known they would go that far, I never would have followed. When I turned on final I startedf eyeing the grass between the hangar and the road coming in, but ended up between the hangar and that fenced in transformer/power station thing. Nice bruise on my ass from the manhole cover in the grass there.

[riggerrob 558]

You are over-thinking the problem. Your first instinct was correct.
It is okay to have two or three canopies flying parallel final approches provided everyone keeps their heads on swivels. Only one of you (usually the first to land) gets a clear shot at th bowl. Finally NOBODY CROSSES THE WINDLINE. This policy also discourages sashaying or significant turns while on final.

[dthames 0]

I also fly very lightly loaded and often in large groups. As you get more experience, you will learn to see these situations coming, sooner, and have more time to make corrections that don't have negative impact on you or others.

On low wind days, I can fly a wider pattern than most others. On a windy day, I can fly a much tighter (overall closer to my landing spot) than others. This helps me put a little space between me and many others.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[mathrick 2]

If I'm the last canopy (and I often am, given that I WS), and I can't be sure what pattern the canopies in front of me are building and whether they're aware of me, I will sometimes do an early, very short base leg or a straight up 180 turn and land a bit long (ie. further away from the hangar) to make sure I'm not cutting anyone off. This way I turn the distance I was trailing the other canopies by into the distance I'm leading them by. This way I can entirely remove "how will they fly?" from my consideration by adopting a slightly suboptimal pattern. I'd rather walk more than risk invading anyone's personal space before we're on safely on the ground.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[GoGoGadget 0]

mathrick

If I'm the last canopy (and I often am, given that I WS), and I can't be sure what pattern the canopies in front of me are building and whether they're aware of me, I will sometimes do an early, very short base leg or a straight up 180 turn and land a bit long (ie. further away from the hangar) to make sure I'm not cutting anyone off. This way I turn the distance I was trailing the other canopies by into the distance I'm leading them by. This way I can entirely remove "how will they fly?" from my consideration by adopting a slightly suboptimal pattern. I'd rather walk more than risk invading anyone's personal space before we're on safely on the ground.

Yeah. Replaying it in my mind I would have been fine turning on my base, keeping an eye on them and as long as I turned on final before their final gets close to my base I would be well clear of them.


I appreciate everyone's input. Thanks all.