National Anthem Protest

[billvon 2,396]

And Trump loses this one pretty definitively.

On the plus side, if he's spending all his time fighting the NFL, he doesn't have time to provoke any unstable dictators or destroy US healthcare, so there's that.

=======================================
NFL is winning in fight against President Trump
Christine Brennan, USA TODAY Sports
Published Sept. 26, 2017

When Donald Trump veered off on one of his venomous tangents in a speech in Alabama Friday night, calling an African American athlete exercising his First Amendment rights a “son of a bitch,” he almost certainly never would have envisioned the picture that would lead the national news 72 hours later:

(Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, a staunch Trump supporter, taking a knee on the field with his players before the national anthem)

Congratulations, Mr. President. You’ve created hundreds of Colin Kaepernicks.

With your divisive rhetoric, you’ve united NFL owners and players. That has always been difficult to do on almost any subject. You made it look easy.

As they kneeled or stood and locked arms before and/or during the national anthem Sunday and Monday at games around the country and in London — or didn't appear for the anthem at all — they weren’t necessarily thinking about Kaepernick and his fight against social injustice.

They were thinking about you.

They were protesting you. They were protesting what you said and how you said it.

They were repudiating you.

Trump can spin this any which way he wants as he whiles away the hours on Twitter, but this time he has met his match. He has picked on people who have a megaphone as large as he does. He has gone after athletes with massive Twitter followings, with microphones in their faces and with devoted fans from red states as well as blue. It’s NFL players, it’s NBA players, it’s NBA coaches: talk about fire and fury. They’re letting Trump have it.
==============

[billvon 2,396]

General Michael Hayden sums it up pretty well:

====================
As a 39-year military veteran, I think I know something about the flag, the anthem, patriotism, and I think I know why we fight. It’s not to allow the president to divide us by wrapping himself in the national banner. I never imagined myself saying this before Friday, but if now forced to choose in this dispute, put me down with Kaepernick.

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/352419-michael-hayden-in-trump-versus-nfl-standing-up-for-free-speech
====================

[kallend 1,623]

Skwrl

I mean, it's not a character flaw to be well read, right?

Unfortunately, these days having a good education is considered to be elitist by many. Especially if it is in science.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

normiss

Hence the use of "IMO".
It's a reference you would have to understand - I don't so to me it was as if it's a blind link.
It means nothing without knowledge of the reference.

Actually upon further consideration, given the source, it still means nothing to me.

You are missing out. As an atheist who had 12 years of Bible study forced upon him as a child, I find being able to quote chapter and verse at so-called "Christians" to be quite useful and entertaining.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 622]

I think I have flushed that nonsense out of my memory banks for more useful information storage.
Besides, I still have Google when I am actually curious enough to research.
I can appreciate your skill to recall that information though!

[normiss 622]

The title of this thread drives me nuts every time it surfaces to the top of the thread list though.
It's dishonest.

[RonD1120 58]

RonD1120

Whatever misguided adolescent message the NFL is trying to promote, it is not working. All they are doing is fueling the fire and making more and more folks angry. Many of my friends are tuning out pro football. And now there is a move to boycott their sponsors. What does it all mean? SHTF is coming boys, get ready.

This article sums up my point. It is not about the 1st Amendment, it is about stupid adolescent behavior that effects your income stream and focuses anger on yourself.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/advertisers-nfl-players-clean-act-040002466.html

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,396]

>it is about stupid adolescent behavior that effects your income stream and
>focuses anger on yourself.

Putting your principles before profit - and having the courage of your convictions - is actually a pretty adult thing to do. Liberals do it all the time. Conservatives - less so.

[yoink 321]

billvon

On the plus side, if he's spending all his time fighting the NFL, he doesn't have time to provoke any unstable dictators or destroy US healthcare, so there's that.

And where exactly do you think the money to offset that the 2.2 trillon dollar tax cut he's just announced will be coming from?

Chop into healthcare, introduce a supertax for companies supplying arms to the military then start all the wars you can. Profit!

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Interesting article in the NYT OpEd section.

For those who don't like blind links, it's by the daughter of an Army Colonel killed in Afghanistan.

From it:

Quote

When it comes to “disrespecting the national anthem,” people have been doing it for a long time. They do it because they’re drunk or because it’s tradition or because they just spent $200 on tickets and they are pumped to be in a stadium alongside tens of thousands of other fans. I worked in both professional and collegiate athletics for five years, and in both venues, I never felt like “The Star-Spangled Banner” got the respect it deserved.

Quote

And consider this: The president of the United States is more outraged by the actions of football players than by the actions of white supremacists. Let that sink in. Is there anything more offensive to the United States military than flying the American flag next to the Nazi flag? Talk about spitting on my father’s grave. President Trump gave white supremacists a pat on the hand, while black N.F.L. players get called “sons of bitches.” If that’s not proof of racial inequality in America, I’m not sure what is.

She gets it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,396]

>And where exactly do you think the money to offset that the 2.2 trillon dollar tax
>cut he's just announced will be coming from?

Well, uh, about that, uh . . .. how about that hurricane, huh?

"We are doing a great job. We did a great job in Texas, a great job in Florida, a great job in Louisiana. We hit little pieces of Georgia and Alabama. And frankly, we're doing . . .

We have been really treated very, very nicely by the governor: 'The entire federal work force is doing great work in Puerto Rico.' And I appreciated his saying it. And he’s saying it to anybody that will listen.”

[SkyDekker 1,121]

RonD1120

***Whatever misguided adolescent message the NFL is trying to promote, it is not working. All they are doing is fueling the fire and making more and more folks angry. Many of my friends are tuning out pro football. And now there is a move to boycott their sponsors. What does it all mean? SHTF is coming boys, get ready.

This article sums up my point. It is not about the 1st Amendment, it is about stupid adolescent behavior that effects your income stream and focuses anger on yourself.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/advertisers-nfl-players-clean-act-040002466.html

That article is from 2014 and is the advertisers' response to the NFL not being strict enough with players caught abusing their spouse. Quite frankly, I am surprised you would agree with that stance.

However, it has absolutely nothing to do with the current protests.

[RMK 3]

ryoder

Trae Crowder chimes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfObia8aUZY

Never seem him before. Pretty good videos; just clicked and watched a few.

On one I liked: "screaming about your rights as an American while waving a confederate flag is like arguing against gay marriage while you have dick in mouth."

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[ryoder 1,381]

RMK

***Trae Crowder chimes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfObia8aUZY

Never seem him before. Pretty good videos; just clicked and watched a few.

On one I liked: "screaming about your rights as an American while waving a confederate flag is like arguing against gay marriage while you have dick in mouth."

I first saw him when he was a guest on Bill Maher's show.
I watched all his Youtube videos, then subscribed to his channel to get the alerts when he posts a new one.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[RonD1120 58]

Not sure if anyone found this reference before.

Game Operations Manual is different from the NFL Rule Book.

Quote

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rulebook-a62-63-national-anthem-rule/

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[aphid 0]

RonD1120

Not sure if anyone found this reference before.

Game Operations Manual is different from the NFL Rule Book.

Quote

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rulebook-a62-63-national-anthem-rule/

Bolding is mine. Doesn't appear mandatory to me, however I only speak the Queen's English.

[gowlerk 1,909]

Quote

Bolding is mine. Doesn't appear mandatory to me, however I only speak the Queen's English.

Trump has already explained why no action is being taken against the offenders. The owners are "afraid" of them.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 58]

aphid

***Not sure if anyone found this reference before.

Game Operations Manual is different from the NFL Rule Book.

Quote

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rulebook-a62-63-national-anthem-rule/

Bolding is mine. Doesn't appear mandatory to me, however I only speak the Queen's English.

You are correct. It is policy not rule.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

And the policy was put in place after millions of tax dollars were paid to the NFL.

Paid patriotism, the best kind.

[RonD1120 58]

SkyDekker

And the policy was put in place after millions of tax dollars were paid to the NFL.

Paid patriotism, the best kind.

Do you mean like welfare paid for Democrat votes?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Yes like welfare that provides for poor people. That is exactly the same as tax dollars to billionaires and millionaires in a tax sheltered environment.

[normiss 622]

Says the guy living off of tax dollars.

[normiss 622]

This was never about the flag.
This is racists trying to silence black athletes' First Amendment rights.

[billvon 2,396]

>Do you mean like welfare paid for Democrat votes?

Or your entitlement checks.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

billvon

>Do you mean like welfare paid for Democrat votes?

Or your entitlement checks.

He is white, he deserves them. Only black people are undeserving. Other than his token black friend of course.