Is Trump Evil?

[quade 3]

airdvr

That Trump is evil is a perceived threat IMHO.

He may not be perceived as a threat to you for any one of a number of reasons, your sex and skin color come to mind, however, that is pretty much the definition of old white man privilege.

Can you see where he may be legitimately perceived as a threat by people who aren't you?

Also, since when does being a perceived threat equate with evil? That doesn't logically follow at all. Some of the most evil people who ever lived on the planet where not perceived threats until it was revealed they were amazingly evil; John Wayne Gacy, Dillion Roof, Tim McVey. The list goes on and on.

What the hell are you going on about?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[AlanS 1]

gowlerk

Calling people snowflakes undercuts your point.

I agree that comment wasn't called for. I apologize for the snowflake comment.

People need to keep things in perspective and reserve the word evil, for true evil.

[quade 3]

AlanS

People need to keep things in perspective and reserve the word evil, for true evil.

Are there no shades of grey in your world? Does a person literally have to be Hitler to be called evil or can I use that term for people responsible for "just killing other people"?

Can I call members of the KKK evil? What if they're "only" KKK wannabes and only burn crosses but don't "actually" lynch people?

Man, sure am glad to have somebody around who can determine these things.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[fasted3 0]

airdvr

I'm not saying Trump is evil. I'm saying many here can't tell the difference from a perceived threat vs. a real one. That Trump is evil is a perceived threat IMHO.

I was hoping to get back to this 'perceived threat' thing.
It sure looks like anything you perceive as a threat is a real threat, while everybody else is worried about fake threats.
Like somebody crashing into them in freefall, rendering them incapable of pulling their handles.
Leaving them dead.
Unless, just maybe they have an AAD,
That just maybe saves them.

No need, with sufficient control.
Good for you to be able to control stuff that us mere snowflakes can't.

Gotta say, my friend, that I perceive dangers that you don't.

AAD's are a case in point, altho not what I want to talk about here.

So on to North Korea, an issue that gets hotter every day, thanks to the fact that we have two extremely , fill in the blank, (leaders?)
There is absolutely no need for either the U.S.A. or North Korea to destroy the world at this time.
Let me repeat that: WE DON'T NEED TO DO IT?
And they don't either.
Here is why:
If you think you need to blow up the world to prevent someone else from blowing up the world...
You are evil.
At this time, it's a tossup if somebody is going to throw the match that ignites what nobody wants to see.
Think about that.
And we have trump
Not good to pick an evil captain for our team, if he is indeed evil.
Last I checked, that was the majority vote.

So here we are.
If the outcome is all out war, is that going to be ok with trump supporters?
What if you are as wrong about trump as you are about everything else?

But what do I know?

[airdvr 197]

quade

***That Trump is evil is a perceived threat IMHO.

He may not be perceived as a threat to you for any one of a number of reasons, your sex and skin color come to mind, however, that is pretty much the definition of old white man privilege.

Can you see where he may be legitimately perceived as a threat by people who aren't you?

Also, since when does being a perceived threat equate with evil? That doesn't logically follow at all. Some of the most evil people who ever lived on the planet where not perceived threats until it was revealed they were amazingly evil; John Wayne Gacy, Dillion Roof, Tim McVey. The list goes on and on.

What the hell are you going on about?

Yes he could, but you have to dismiss many things for him to be a legitimate threat. Two other branches of government he needs to maneuver through.

The people you use as examples of evil were anonymous until they were discovered. Are you wringing your hands worrying about people on which you have no information? Good luck sleeping at night.

Old white man privilege? I'm assuming you mean I've achieved things in my life solely based on my race, and you'd be somewhat correct however the opportunities afforded me could have been had by most anyone. Opportunity comes disguised as hard work. Most people don't recognize it until it has passed them by.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 197]

fasted3

So here we are.
If the outcome is all out war, is that going to be ok with trump supporters?
What if you are as wrong about trump as you are about everything else?

Hmmm...you sound as if we aren't already involved in 2 wars. And the possibility of being wrong exists on both sides.

My take on the N Korea situation; since the end of WWII we've played unsuccessfully at regime change. Too many past administrations have played softball with N Korea. I still don't believe they are as big a threat as you might. Kim has no choice other than bravado lest he looks bad to his people. Remember, when dealing with N Korea you aren't dealing with a government or a population that has any clue how the rest of the world thinks and acts.

And, China doesn't want this crazy fuck to have that much power. I look for them to get more involved.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[quade 3]

airdvr

Old white man privilege? I'm assuming you mean I've achieved things in my life solely based on my race, and . . .

No. I stated it quite plainly. You benefit from old white man privilege in that Trump poses no threat to you. He's not a threat to old white men. In fact, he courts them.

That doesn't mean he's not evil though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[fasted3 0]

airdvr

Hmmm...you sound as if we aren't already involved in 2 wars. And the possibility of being wrong exists on both sides.

Oh, I know all about those wars; especially how I was sure it was a mistake to start either one of them.
I was right then, not that I wanted to be.
I pray I'm wrong now.

airdvr

My take on the N Korea situation; since the end of WWII we've played unsuccessfully at regime change. Too many past administrations have played softball with N Korea. I still don't believe they are as big a threat as you might. Kim has no choice other than bravado lest he looks bad to his people. Remember, when dealing with N Korea you aren't dealing with a government or a population that has any clue how the rest of the world thinks and acts.

And, China doesn't want this crazy fuck to have that much power. I look for them to get more involved.

I disagree with you about NK and China in a few ways:
I don't think Kim is as crazy as our propaganda leads us to believe, and I don't think China dislikes him as much as they want us to believe.

As for regime change, we have done it too many times for the wrong reasons. Iran is also considered an evil empire, but I think it's a problem of our own making. We overthrew their democratically elected government to install a brutal dictator to benefit oil companies. Now they burn our flag and we can't stand it. Evil bastards.

We have been at war with somebody for almost my whole life, and yet none of them were really necessary. If any other country really was about to defeat us, we could just blow them up. We've never had to do that, but we've still blown up a lot of this world, and again, not always for the right reasons.

Nukes are only good to deter war; they suck for actually fighting with them.
We have been the supreme nuclear power this whole time, which meant we could ensure that any other country would lose in all out war with us.
But we did not take that road.
And because we did not, and others were not content to be ruled by us, they wanted what we had. Now, of course, many do.

This is why we are sitting on a powder keg, and all out war will set it off.
I've read that Russia has 100 nukes targeting Washington DC, and we have the same for Moscow. I don't know how thin the hair is on the triggers, but probably a hell of a lot thinner than any of us want.

I worry about what the world will be like if both sides pull their triggers. What will happen next?

This leads me to believe that war is just impossible, and the sooner we realize it the better. Some of us do already, but some even now are beating the drums. I just read a 'think piece' about why we should attack NK as soon as possible.
Yes, they may one day destroy the world, but that does not mean we need to destroy it now.
I believe any attack against either NK or Iran would be evil on our part, and no bleating about saving the world will change that.
There may be some scenarios that don't destroy everything immediately if we do attack, but some do, and it's not worth the risk. I don't think we will gain a damn thing anyway.

Do I trust trump not to do it? Do I think he is smart enough, or good enough, to lead the world at this time?
I guess that's a rhetorical question.

Here is an article that supports my position.
http://www.salon.com/2017/09/24/facing-trumps-threats-why-in-gods-name-would-north-korea-disarm/

But what do I know?

[airdvr 197]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Not sure if we've passed the point of no return on disabling his ability to produce nukes. I would think a few well placed Tomahawks might slow him down a bit, but then we risk some retaliation against Seoul.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[fasted3 0]

Yes, things could get very nasty if we were to do that without a very good reason. Not that we think we do, that some other very significant players do, especially China and Russia, which even China has enough nukes to theoretically at least, pretty much wipe us off the map. Russia surely can.

Both countries, btw, have stated that a unilateral attack from us is unacceptable. They aren't screaming it and making up childish names for us, but we should still be listening.

Having said that, if NK explodes an h-bomb in the pacific, that will probably be the end for them. Some presidents would be better at getting it done without blowing up the world, if any could.

I truly can't imagine a worse one than trump.

But what do I know?

[christelsabine 1]

fasted3

Yes, things could get very nasty if we were to do that without a very good reason. Not that we think we do, that some other very significant players do, especially China and Russia, which even China has enough nukes to theoretically at least, pretty much wipe us off the map. Russia surely can.

Both countries, btw, have stated that a unilateral attack from us is unacceptable. They aren't screaming it and making up childish names for us, but we should still be listening.

Having said that, if NK explodes an h-bomb in the pacific, that will probably be the end for them. Some presidents would be better at getting it done without blowing up the world, if any could.

I truly can't imagine a worse one than trump.

I fully agree to your post(s), especially the very last sentence above.

It's just weird to me why nobody else here in SC is using such clear descriptions of the obvious about trump - that man is giving a sh*t about the world around him. And that includes his willingness to start a nuclear war just to prove himself beeing a leader - he is not, he is just an uneducated, dangerous fat old bastard.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[fasted3 0]

quade

***Old white man privilege? I'm assuming you mean I've achieved things in my life solely based on my race, and . . .

No. I stated it quite plainly. You benefit from old white man privilege in that Trump poses no threat to you. He's not a threat to old white men. In fact, he courts them.

That doesn't mean he's not evil though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

As both an old white guy and a bleeding heart liberal with socialist leanings, I don't feel that trump wants anything to do with me. Heck, if he reads this thread, I'm done for. I hope you aren't making assumptions based on skin color.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I like to attribute my success to my hard work and skill, but the fact is that blacks were not allowed in my field until I had already reached supervisor level. It was not until the early 80's that the first ones started showing up, and it was not easy then. It isn't now either.
I'm talking about working offshore in the GOM.

Hate is such a destructive force. I wish more people would fight back.

My crew did, and were instrumental in that first black guy getting his chance. The riggers wanted him sent back without stepping foot on the barge, and the welders were in. The divers were not, and I was proud to lead the fight to give him a chance.

3 months later one of our riggers got in a fight with one from another barge that was badmouthing the guy. The whole crew jumped in. They still hated them, but not 'our' n*.

Baby steps.

Then there was the time I got on the board for the local swim club, at around the same time:
First meeting: All you new board members need to understand the most important rule of this club; it's not written down, but don't ever forget: NO N*'s allowed.

That was fun too.

But what do I know?

[fasted3 0]

Thank you.

But what do I know?

[quade 3]

Iago

As far as exploding an H bomb, I highly doubt that. The first H bombs developed were the size of three story buildings. Unless someone was stupid enough to sell them the tech, it ain't happening.

Not really sure the size of the first weapon ever is an indication of what the size of North Korea's first weapon would be.

Even if nobody sold them the technology, it's not as if there isn't enough public information about how to build one a county would have to start again from scratch.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 620]

Given that they are using Russian missiles, I'm not so sure of your perspective on their advancement.
Iran's current missiles are visually quite suspect as a similar source of design or model.

[Phil1111 908]

normiss

Given that they are using Russian missiles, I'm not so sure of your perspective on their advancement.
Iran's current missiles are visually quite suspect as a similar source of design or model.

Iran and Pakistan will sell or trade any technology to NK.

Pakistan is selling nuclear materials to N Korea and China knows it, US sources say
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Pakistan-is-selling-nuclear-materials-to-N-Korea-and-China-knows-it-US-sources-say/articleshow/52867989.cms

In return for Iranian financial assistance, North Korea provided Iran with the SCUD B ballistic missiles it used against Iraq in the “War of the Cities,” according to former U.S. intelligence officer Bruce Bechtol’s book Red Rogue. Even after the Iran-Iraq War ended, Iran’s military ties with North Korea deepened. Bechtol wrote that since the 1990s, North Korea has helped Iran to develop its Shahab missiles, based on North Korean models, and that “it is believed ” North Korean representatives attended Iran’s test of its Shahab-4 missile in 2006.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/north-koreas-deadly-partnership-with-iran

[normiss 620]

Soviet Ukrainian

[fasted3 0]

Iago

I wouldn't worry too much about US involvement since China controls that part of the World. This is pretty much part for the course. NK does their whole chest pounding routine and eventually China has a sit down and reminds them how things really work.

As far as exploding an H bomb, I highly doubt that. The first H bombs developed were the size of three story buildings. Unless someone was stupid enough to sell them the tech, it ain't happening.

I believe their last test was an H-bomb.
100 megaton.
They posted a picture of it, which if it really was the bomb they tested, would fit on a missile.
As for China, I have serious doubts about NK being all that much of a renegade for them. If they were really bothered by the situation they would have changed it already.
Not to say they are happy with everything; they probably aren't.
But they would rather that than having us on their border, via a unified Korea, and having a weaponized nut at their beck and call could be attractive. Their million man army of fanatics could come in handy, should it ever be needed, as well.
We will see, and no doubt you are right if they come to see kim as a threat to their own well being, or survival itself...
In any case, it may not be a good idea counting on external forces to save the day for us, as many of those forces, I'm afraid, would be all to happy to dance on our graves.
Putin is another one, I suspect.

But what do I know?

[billvon 2,381]

> The leap to a hydrogen fusion bomb in such a short period of time, considering that also
>requires an entirely new suite of isotopes, is not likely to happen anytime soon unless
> they had significant outside help.

However, the leap to a boosted fission bomb (one that uses fusion, but not considered a "real" fusion bomb) is a pretty small one. If they have implosion weapons already, it wouldn't take much.

[fasted3 0]

Do you think the last test was an H-bomb?
From what I've read, it seems like a very good possibility, due to the power registered by the explosion. In fact, some suspect an earlier test was too, but there is disagreement there.

In any case, the slope under our handbasket seems steeper every day.
Meanwhile trump is greasing the wheels. The other side is just as bad, if not worse.
Do you agree? And if so, do you think it is because of stupidity, or just downright evil?

But what do I know?

[nolhtairt 0]

China detests Kim Jong Un, but they don't want him removed from power.

Kim Jong Un hates the Chinese for even going along with the UN resolutions against him and North Korea.

So there's that.

[kallend 1,621]

Iago

I wouldn't worry too much about US involvement since China controls that part of the World. This is pretty much part for the course. NK does their whole chest pounding routine and eventually China has a sit down and reminds them how things really work.

As far as exploding an H bomb, I highly doubt that. The first H bombs developed were the size of three story buildings. Unless someone was stupid enough to sell them the tech, it ain't happening.

The "tech" you worry about is pretty much freely available now. NK doesn't have to learn it from scratch. They don't need to make an "Ivy Mike" first, or even a "Castle Bravo". Separating tritium is easier than U235. The USSR, UK, France, China, India and Pakistan all went thermonuclear very quickly after developing fission weapons.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 232]

kallend

***I wouldn't worry too much about US involvement since China controls that part of the World. This is pretty much part for the course. NK does their whole chest pounding routine and eventually China has a sit down and reminds them how things really work.

As far as exploding an H bomb, I highly doubt that. The first H bombs developed were the size of three story buildings. Unless someone was stupid enough to sell them the tech, it ain't happening.

The "tech" you worry about is pretty much freely available now. NK doesn't have to learn it from scratch. They don't need to make an "Ivy Mike" first, or even a "Castle Bravo". Separating tritium is easier than U235. The USSR, UK, France, China, India and Pakistan all went thermonuclear very quickly after developing fission weapons.

Also, China loves it that NK takes all the heat in that area while they build permanent bases all over disputed waters. They'll never truly intervene on our behalf.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[fasted3 0]

Taking a different tack, Matt Tabbi discusses if he's a criminal or insane:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-madness-of-donald-trump-removal-25th-amendment-w504149

It's pretty long, but had some good parts:
"Trump is no malfunction. He's a perfect representation of who, as a country, we are and always have been: an insane monster. Frankly, we're lucky he's not walking around using a child's femur as a toothpick.

When it's not trembling in terror, the rest of the world must be laughing its ass off. America, land of the mad pig president. Shove that up your exceptionalism. "

But what do I know?