Nazi's are back!

[RonD1120 58]

quade

***Of particular interest is how well he treated his Negro servants SLAVES and how much they loved him (to his face so they wouldn't be whipped).

The written and photographic account at the Stephens Liberty Hall tells a different story.

Quote

Harry & Eliza Stephens
Freed from slavery at Liberty
Hall, the Stephens stayed
after Emancipation to care for
the sickly Alexander Stephens.

When the war ended, the frail Stephens was
imprisoned at Fort Warren in Boston Harbor
for five months. He returned home to find the
farm operating well. None of the former
slaves had left, even after being informed of
their liberation from slavery.

http://www.exploresouthernhistory.com/ahstephens2.html

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,254]

RonD1120

******Of particular interest is how well he treated his Negro servants and how much they loved him.

Ron, you are extra "full of shit" today.

That is well documented at Liberty Hall.

My own opinion of slavery, as often
expressed, was that if the institution was not
the best, or could not be made the best, for
both races, looking to the advancement and
progress of both, physically and morally, it
ought to be abolished. It was far from being
what it might and ought to have been.
Education was denied. This was wrong. I ever
condemned the wrong. Marriage was not
recognized. This was a wrong that I
condemned. Many things connected with it
did not meet my approval but excited my
disgust, abhorrence, and detestation.

So, the way that slave owning was conducted disgusted him. He knew it was wrong to treat humans the way they were being treated by other owners. And yet, even though the institution of slavery provides no mechanism whatsoever to protect the rights of slaves (it demands that they have no rights) he helped lead his country into bloody war to defend the rights of white Southerners to do abhorrent and detestable things to other humans.

Frankly I think that makes him a prime example of what we should try not to be, and the type of political stubborness we should try not to be sucked into.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

Of particular interest is how well he treated his Negro servants and how much they loved him.

This is among the most offensive things I've ever seen posted here.


Edit to add, I just got home and read this. I had not seen everyone else's reaction before I posted. You sure know how to push buttons.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,380]

Quote

That is what the Progressive Liberal Democrats are seeking. The want us to work at government regulated business, pay most of our wages in taxes, get high in our free time and fornicate and trust the government to care for us.

Cool. Sounds like they are treating you well and you love them.

[TriGirl 268]

RonD1120

The written and photographic account at the Stephens Liberty Hall tells a different story.

Quote

Harry & Eliza Stephens
Freed from slavery at Liberty
Hall, the Stephens stayed
after Emancipation to care for
the sickly Alexander Stephens.

When the war ended, the frail Stephens was
imprisoned at Fort Warren in Boston Harbor
for five months. He returned home to find the
farm operating well. None of the former
slaves had left, even after being informed of
their liberation from slavery.

http://www.exploresouthernhistory.com/ahstephens2.html

In response to bold portion: Because yeah, they had so many other options.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[DirtyChai 0]

Iago

According to Southern Poverty there are as many (or about a quarter more depending on what years data you compare) black separatist groups as white supremacists/KKK groups.

Ya, I know what you're talking about - I saw that too, but their numbers seem to be conflated for some reason. They show 130 active KKK groups vs the 193 black separatist groups, but if you look at their "hate map," they're lumping in the 99 Neo-nazi groups with the anti-government crowd, along with 78 racist skinhead groups, 100 white nationalist groups, and 43 neo-confederate groups.

So given THAT, there are certainly more white hate groups than black hate groups, but nevertheless, black hate groups are disproportionately higher than white hate groups.

Black separatist groups have consistently been on the rise since Obama's inception - from 81 in 2007, to 112 in 2008, all the way up to a record breaking 193 by the end of his presidency.

But I doubt you're gonna hear about THAT "basket of deplorables" coming from the hard left - after all, "black hate groups are a response to white racism, so it's OK!" But thankfully, the SPLC isn't biased when it comes to the level of hate in this country. . .

[DirtyChai 0]

jakee

Frankly I think that makes him a prime example of what we should try not to be, and the type of political stubborness we should try not to be sucked into.

First off, props for taking the time to read and address the issue rather than giving the typical knee jerk reaction.

I'm trying not to judge Stephens by today's standards, but ultimately it seems like he violated his conscience (sinned) in order to maintain power, and/or out of fear of "retribution."

. . .Definition of a Politician.

[DirtyChai 0]

gowlerk

Quote

Of particular interest is how well he treated his Negro servants and how much they loved him.

This is among the most offensive things I've ever seen posted here.

Yes, by today's standards I can see how that is offensive, but back then, they were probably living better than most white people at that time, even as slaves. . .then to ultimately be paid on top of that? Hmmmm, I dunno, even THEY might disagree with you.

You have to wonder, if all slaves were treated like they were, would the North have even opposed it at that time?

gowlerk

Edit to add, I just got home and read this. I had not seen everyone else's reaction before I posted. You sure know how to push buttons.

See that's the problem, someone pushes buttons and everyone loses it and says things like, "You're full of shit!" But Jakee had no problem addressing the issue like a normal, rational human being from the 21st century.

That's the left that I've come to know and love. Thoughtful, intelligent and educated. Able to address issues without violence and personal attacks. The world could use a bit of that right now.

But then again, from what I can tell, he seems to have more "one warnings" than anyone else, yet he's still here. . .

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Black separatist groups have consistently been on the rise since Obama's inception - from 81 in 2007, to 112 in 2008, all the way up to a record breaking 193 by the end of his presidency.

Whichever way it falls, number of groups is a red herring anyway. The number of groups could balloon without ever attracting any more members just through internal schisms. You start off with the People's Front of Judea, then you've got the Judean People's Front, the Judean People's Popular Front and even the Popular Front of Judea. But by then he's only one guy sitting over there. Splitter!

The question really is how mnay people are in the groups, and how many people agree with them.

Quote

But I doubt you're gonna hear about THAT "basket of deplorables" coming from the hard left - after all, "black hate groups are a response to white racism, so it's OK!" But thankfully, the SPLC isn't biased when it comes to the level of hate in this country. . .

Neither Clinton nor Obama nor Kerry nor Gore nor Clinton the first one pandered to black hate groups and proposed policies that pushed all their buttons the way Trump did with the right wing deplorables. The democrats do not consider the hard left their base the way the republicans consider the evangelical right theirs (if they did they'd have nominated Sanders by a landslide). Trump just took it one or two steps further.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

You have to wonder, if all slaves were treated like they were, would the North have even opposed it at that time?

Yeah, and if modern human traffickers treated their sex slaves well, and bought them nice things, and kept them in luxury hotels and made sure the johns never did anything they weren't comfortable with then maybe we wouldn't have a problem with forced prostitution.

But reality isn't like that, and never will be. And if a pimp came up and tried to tell you that sex slavery is ok across the board because he treats his girls well.... you'd probably still think he was a criminal scumbag who deserves to be castrated with a rusty spoon before being sent to prison for the rest of his life.

Quote

But then again, from what I can tell, he seems to have more "one warnings" than anyone else, yet he's still here. . .

It's all about timing.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DirtyChai 0]

jakee

The question really is how mnay people are in the groups, and how many people agree with them.

Right, good point. Another example - the number off KKK groups dropped from 221 groups down to 72 within 4 years, and then back up to 190 within a year, and then back down to 130 the next. It's doubtful all those people in those groups suddenly had a change of heart, and that type of fluctuation all but proves it.

I suppose the SPLC could be more detailed, but their main purpose is to bring awareness, good enough.

Personally, I think it's all the same douche-bags changing names depending on whether or not they can fit organized hate into their schedules. Interesting how the spikes seem to coincide when everyone was losing their jobs. . .

jakee

Neither Clinton nor Obama nor Kerry nor Gore nor Clinton the first one pandered to black hate groups and proposed policies that pushed all their buttons the way Trump did with the right wing deplorables. The democrats do not consider the hard left their base the way the republicans consider the evangelical right theirs (if they did they'd have nominated Sanders by a landslide). Trump just took it one or two steps further.

Fair enough, but I don't think this election really had much to do with the evangelical right and their religious values. Things like abortion and LBGT rights for the most part seemed to be put on the back burner for this election. Just saying.

[DirtyChai 0]

jakee

Quote

You have to wonder, if all slaves were treated like they were, would the North have even opposed it at that time?

Yeah, and if modern human traffickers treated their sex slaves well, and bought them nice things, and kept them in luxury hotels and made sure the johns never did anything they weren't comfortable with then maybe we wouldn't have a problem with forced prostitution.

Of course we'd have a problem with it, now. But we're talking about a time when even politicians thought it wise - and legal - to settle disputes with organized shootouts. Pretty much everything about life back then sucked compared to life today.

jakee

But reality isn't like that, and never will be. And if a pimp came up and tried to tell you that sex slavery is ok across the board because he treats his girls well.... you'd probably still think he was a criminal scumbag who deserves to be castrated with a rusty spoon before being sent to prison for the rest of his life.

There may have been a time when castration with a rusty spoon may have been acceptable, but things change. Like you said, it's all about timing. . .

[Phil1111 908]

RonD1120

************Of particular interest is how well he treated his Negro servants and how much they loved him.

Ron, you are extra "full of shit" today.

That is well documented at Liberty Hall.


Let me ask you a question, Ron.

If you were my slave, answerable to my every single whim with no repercussions for me, and no rights of your own, would you be OK with that - even if I treated you really well?

That is what the Progressive Liberal Democrats are seeking. The want us to work at government regulated business, pay most of our wages in taxes, get high in our free time and fornicate and trust the government to care for us.

I am a slave to Christ Jesus and I am treated really, really well. Thanks for asking.

You are not alone in this forum for having a distorted view of slavery and what it means. I'll accept this response are merely a deflection of the question because you didn't want to answer it.

Slavery is a dollar or two premium on keeping children with their mother because any black lactating woman can nurse any baby.

Children can start picking cotton at 5 or 6 years of age. Of course the quota will be less than a healthy male.

After 35 years or so medical care is a waste on any slave because you can't get anything at auction for them anyway.

Defenders of slavery show a complete lack of understanding of the entire system and conditions surrounding it.

[kallend 1,621]

RonD1120

I have been to Alexander Stephens' home in Crawfordville GA. It is interesting to read about and view the artifacts of his life. Of particular interest is how well he treated his Negro servants and how much they loved him. Granted, he was unique in that respect. Also, he was an early friend and colleague of Abraham Lincoln. They served together in Congress.

I wonder if they will try to tear down his statue. What about the memorial at Stone Mountain?

"SERVANTS"? I think you have the wrong word there.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 1,903]

I've seen this crap before. The first thing they say is about how well the slaves were treated. The next thing they say is that it was actually for their own good because they're like children. The next thing they say after that is that God wants it that way and left instructions in the holy Bible. All these arguments are extremely offensive.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[ryoder 1,381]

kallend

"SERVANTS"? I think you have the wrong word there.

Haven't you ever heard the story of Moses?
He led a group of Hebrew servants out of Egypt.
I heard a lot of them didn't want to go because their bosses treated them so well.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

***
Let me ask you a question, Ron.

If you were my slave, answerable to my every single whim with no repercussions for me, and no rights of your own, would you be OK with that - even if I treated you really well?

That is what the Progressive Liberal Democrats are seeking. The want us to work at government regulated business, pay most of our wages in taxes, get high in our free time and fornicate and trust the government to care for us.

I am a slave to Christ Jesus and I am treated really, really well. Thanks for asking.

What?

Ron - do you not understand what slavery is?

I get it. You don't like liberals and you have faith in Jesus - but if you honestly think that your life under liberals is the equivalent to black slavery in the 1700s then you're certifiably insane.

I'm so blown away by your cowardly response that I honestly don't know what to say. To try and equate slavery to something else isn't only dishonest - it's disgusting.

[normiss 620]

Your bible has really messed your perspective of reality up Ron.
I hope you can straighten your views up before you get to those gates you're dreaming about.
I don't think you have a chance in hell, but I wish you luck in finding human understanding and compassion.
It appears you currently have neither.

[RonD1120 58]

You are misplacing argument for reporting. I am not making an argument for slavery. I merely reported what I read and saw at the Stephens State Park. I also made the point that he was an exception in Southern society.

It confuses me that you and the others jump to false conclusions.

I believe is slavery is evil. I believe if one person owns another person that is satanic.

However, if an individual allows themselves to be completely dominated by another it is a choice. Think about the relationship and responsibilities of marriage. Sure divorce is possible but it takes real courage, determination and a servant's heart to stay married.

Do you know anyone who has stayed employed at reduced pay or worse conditions then can be had elsewhere because they were totally devoted to their employer? I know some and have been there myself.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

If marriage is that tough, you married the wrong person.

- Dan G

[wmw999 2,116]

From this distance, it's hard to know whether they freely stayed with him

because he was so good,

because they knew that they'd be attacked and/or killed by roving bandits,

because they had no means of travel and eating and knew that the other masters in the area were worse,

because they were brainwashed by never having had a choice (like kidnap victims with Stockholm syndrome).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 58]

wmw999

From this distance, it's hard to know whether they freely stayed with him

because he was so good,

because they knew that they'd be attacked and/or killed by roving bandits,

because they had no means of travel and eating and knew that the other masters in the area were worse,

because they were brainwashed by never having had a choice (like kidnap victims with Stockholm syndrome).

Wendy P.

You are correct. However, I do not see the need to condemn Alexander Stephens. He was simply a character in American history. He had some good points and some bad points. He had some folks who loved him and now it sadly seems he has some folks who choose to hate him.

Right now the haters seem to be only here in the SC. There are no riots at the Alexander Stephens State Park.

Why do we have so much anger and hatred in the skydiving community?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

RonD1120

You are misplacing argument for reporting. I am not making an argument for slavery. I merely reported what I read and saw at the Stephens State Park. I also made the point that he was an exception in Southern society.

It confuses me that you and the others jump to false conclusions.

I believe is slavery is evil. I believe if one person owns another person that is satanic.

However, if an individual allows themselves to be completely dominated by another it is a choice. Think about the relationship and responsibilities of marriage. Sure divorce is possible but it takes real courage, determination and a servant's heart to stay married.

Do you know anyone who has stayed employed at reduced pay or worse conditions then can be had elsewhere because they were totally devoted to their employer? I know some and have been there myself.

Like a good Christian who beats his wife and maintains it can't be that bad cause she doesn't leave him.

[Lawndarter 3]

RonD1120

I have been to Alexander Stephens' home in Crawfordville GA. It is interesting to read about and view the artifacts of his life. Of particular interest is how well he treated his Negro servants and how much they loved him. Granted, he was unique in that respect. Also, he was an early friend and colleague of Abraham Lincoln. They served together in Congress.

I wonder if they will try to tear down his statue. What about the memorial at Stone Mountain?

I'll buy tickets to watch that get demolished.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

Right now the haters seem to be only here in the SC. There are no riots at the Alexander Stephens State Park.

What kind of nonsense is this? No one here is hating on this man. We are offended by people of today stating that the slaves were happy in their place and time. We are against the people of today celebrating the wrongs of yesterday.

The thing that kept most slaves in their place was fear. Nothing but fear. Either fear of punishment, or if they were in a better situation than most, fear of being "sold down the river". Think for a moment about that term. Imagine having to worry that your owner could sell you at any time. To any one, who could then work you to death if they wanted to. The whole society was run on a system of terror.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.