The Reversed Standard Edition of the Bible - FOX News

[billvon 2,379]

Good article on FOX News by Michael Anthony, lead pastor of Grace Fellowship. Anthony points out that Jesus would not recognize the evangelical right today as any sort of Christianity.

===================
. . .

I’m not a liberal, pro-LGBT advocate. I’m a conservative, evangelical Christian who is actually the senior pastor of a fairly large church in Pennsylvania. But I’m still reeling from last week, peeved and grieved about two things: how the president is handling the transgender military issue, and how many conservative, evangelical Christians are celebrating. I know there are many English translations of the Bible available today, including the KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV and more – but it seems that the hands-down favorite of many of too many conservative, evangelical Christians has become the RSV – the Reversed Standard Version. I’m afraid many of us have reversed what the Bible teaches, and someone on the inside needs to say so loud and clear.

There is nothing courageous, humble or gracious about the behavior of our president or many conservative evangelicals these days – and it frightens me big time. If it were possible, I think it would frighten Jesus. Many Christians are preaching grace and mercy and we’re very good at saying folks don’t need to get their acts together before coming to Christ as Savior – but our treatment of the lost contradicts our confession. We don’t own the message we’re preaching. Compassion? Love? Are you kidding me? We’re very angry at sinners. It’s obvious – and it’s twisted.

We wonder why people are turned off by Christianity. I have news for us: it’s not Jesus who is offending people much these days. It’s us, his followers. I fear that a large sector of Christianity in America needs to get saved all over again, and I say that with tears, fear and a good deal of trembling.

In the past four years, five well-known American pastors from mega-churches either fell from grace or were disgraced by unethical practices that should have had conservative evangelicals up in arms (and I’m not talking about worshipping on a Sunday morning). One pastor bought his own books in an attempt to become a NY Times bestselling author. Another built a 16,000 square foot home (don’t worry, only 8,000sf was “livable space,” he explained), while his church promoted “spontaneous” baptisms that turned out to involve a good deal of planned psychological manipulation to solicit audience participation. Drinking and anger issues cost another his church and marriage. The fifth resigned suddenly and walked away – and within six months, his wife filed for divorce. His pièce de résistance was that he assumed leadership of a church consulting company within weeks of resigning. In other words, he wants other church leaders to follow his example. Lord, save us.

Where were the conservative evangelical Christians during these high-profile meltdowns? I don’t know, but one thing is certain: we didn’t hear nearly as much from them as we did about the president’s transgender military move.

The recent release of a photo showing a select group of Christian leaders praying for and laying hands on President Trump is something I would expect to see from Pharisees, not pastors – unless, of course, there is a parallel. (Remember, the Pharisees were among Jesus’ staunchest enemies). I’m a huge advocate for praying for our president. Love him or hate him, he and our nation need a lot of prayer. But we’re supposed to be doing our acts of righteousness in private, not use them as a public relations tool to garner more name recognition.

I get it: the military exits to destroy the enemy. Accordingly, it must have standards that potential recruits must meet in order to achieve its objectives. That’s common sense. And, I agree that the military should not pay for gender reassignment surgeries. But, can we learn how to express ourselves with compassion for people who, in many instances, would love to have their sexuality as settled as the majority of Americans? Must we bludgeon people in our disagreement? Is that what Jesus did?

Sin is bad, and people definitely need to repent before they can follow Jesus. I’m not disregarding that essential part of the gospel. What concerns me is that many conservative evangelicals have perverted the gospel and don’t seem to realize it. We want people to be perfect before they come to know Christ, and neither Jesus nor the gospel work that way.

At the very time when America needs humble courage, aloof arrogance is running amuck. I think it’s time we put down the false RSV Bible and start reading one of the real translations. It’s not possible to follow Jesus otherwise.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/06/pastor-actions-many-christians-today-would-frighten-jesus.html
========================

[yoink 321]

Sounds like a liberal pinko commie to me. Get him!

[BartsDaddy 4]

billvon

Good article on FOX News by Michael Anthony, lead pastor of Grace Fellowship. Anthony points out that Jesus would not recognize the evangelical right today as any sort of Christianity.

===================
. . .

I’m not a liberal, pro-LGBT advocate. I’m a conservative, evangelical Christian who is actually the senior pastor of a fairly large church in Pennsylvania. But I’m still reeling from last week, peeved and grieved about two things: how the president is handling the transgender military issue, and how many conservative, evangelical Christians are celebrating. I know there are many English translations of the Bible available today, including the KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV and more – but it seems that the hands-down favorite of many of too many conservative, evangelical Christians has become the RSV – the Reversed Standard Version. I’m afraid many of us have reversed what the Bible teaches, and someone on the inside needs to say so loud and clear.

There is nothing courageous, humble or gracious about the behavior of our president or many conservative evangelicals these days – and it frightens me big time. If it were possible, I think it would frighten Jesus. Many Christians are preaching grace and mercy and we’re very good at saying folks don’t need to get their acts together before coming to Christ as Savior – but our treatment of the lost contradicts our confession. We don’t own the message we’re preaching. Compassion? Love? Are you kidding me? We’re very angry at sinners. It’s obvious – and it’s twisted.

We wonder why people are turned off by Christianity. I have news for us: it’s not Jesus who is offending people much these days. It’s us, his followers. I fear that a large sector of Christianity in America needs to get saved all over again, and I say that with tears, fear and a good deal of trembling.

In the past four years, five well-known American pastors from mega-churches either fell from grace or were disgraced by unethical practices that should have had conservative evangelicals up in arms (and I’m not talking about worshipping on a Sunday morning). One pastor bought his own books in an attempt to become a NY Times bestselling author. Another built a 16,000 square foot home (don’t worry, only 8,000sf was “livable space,” he explained), while his church promoted “spontaneous” baptisms that turned out to involve a good deal of planned psychological manipulation to solicit audience participation. Drinking and anger issues cost another his church and marriage. The fifth resigned suddenly and walked away – and within six months, his wife filed for divorce. His pièce de résistance was that he assumed leadership of a church consulting company within weeks of resigning. In other words, he wants other church leaders to follow his example. Lord, save us.

Where were the conservative evangelical Christians during these high-profile meltdowns? I don’t know, but one thing is certain: we didn’t hear nearly as much from them as we did about the president’s transgender military move.

The recent release of a photo showing a select group of Christian leaders praying for and laying hands on President Trump is something I would expect to see from Pharisees, not pastors – unless, of course, there is a parallel. (Remember, the Pharisees were among Jesus’ staunchest enemies). I’m a huge advocate for praying for our president. Love him or hate him, he and our nation need a lot of prayer. But we’re supposed to be doing our acts of righteousness in private, not use them as a public relations tool to garner more name recognition.

I get it: the military exits to destroy the enemy. Accordingly, it must have standards that potential recruits must meet in order to achieve its objectives. That’s common sense. And, I agree that the military should not pay for gender reassignment surgeries. But, can we learn how to express ourselves with compassion for people who, in many instances, would love to have their sexuality as settled as the majority of Americans? Must we bludgeon people in our disagreement? Is that what Jesus did?

Sin is bad, and people definitely need to repent before they can follow Jesus. I’m not disregarding that essential part of the gospel. What concerns me is that many conservative evangelicals have perverted the gospel and don’t seem to realize it. We want people to be perfect before they come to know Christ, and neither Jesus nor the gospel work that way.

At the very time when America needs humble courage, aloof arrogance is running amuck. I think it’s time we put down the false RSV Bible and start reading one of the real translations. It’s not possible to follow Jesus otherwise.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/08/06/pastor-actions-many-christians-today-would-frighten-jesus.html
========================

So which one is the true and accurate one?

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[RonD1120 58]

BartsDaddy

So which one is the true and accurate one?

The one that allows you to hear the small still voice of the Holy Spirit as you read it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

***


So which one is the true and accurate one?

The one that allows you to hear the small still voice of the Holy Spirit as you read it.


How very convenient.

Something that requires no effort, sacrifice or change and basically justifies any behavior based on however you choose to interpret it.


I think that's called 'having your cake and eating it, too'.

[RonD1120 58]

yoink

******


So which one is the true and accurate one?

The one that allows you to hear the small still voice of the Holy Spirit as you read it.


How very convenient.

Something that requires no effort, sacrifice or change and basically justifies any behavior based on however you choose to interpret it.


I think that's called 'having your cake and eating it, too'.

The Holy Spirit always leads you to a closer relationship with Jesus Christ not to your cake.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 619]

A non existent being cannot lead anyone to another non existent being.
Not everyone hears voices, much less listens to them.

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

The Holy Spirit always leads you to a closer relationship with Jesus Christ not to your cake.

You're deliberately misunderstanding.


I'm pretty sure most practicing Christians would say that I'm not a Christian and that I'm probably not going to their version of heaven - I don't go to church, I abhor organised religion in general, have never read the bible and disagree that religion gives people the right to tell others how they should live their lives.

I simply try to live by 3 tenants: Don't deliberately be a dick to people, try to leave the world a better place than I found it, and take responsibility for your actions. That's all.
And that's how I'm raising my child - No hating or judging people because of their sexuality or religious beliefs. No threats of eternal damnation if you don't subscribe to my viewpoint and no get-out-of-jail-free clause for being 'found' or 'redeemed'.

I can honestly say that my behavior lets me hear the 'small still voice of the Holy Spirit' just as you do, despite probably being at odds with almost everything you believe; that little voice that says 'this is the right and moral thing to do in a given situation...

So what is it? Is mine an accurate representation of Christianity as BartsDaddy asked? If not, why is yours the right one?

[gowlerk 1,901]

Quote

The Holy Spirit always leads you to a closer relationship with Jesus Christ not to your cake.

Right. It works on the same principle as a Ouija board.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DirtyChai 0]

yoink

I disagree that religion gives people the right to tell others how they should live their lives.

You're right, the 1st amendment gives people the right to do that. You also have the right to ignore them, or tell them to piss off, or offer up your own "3 tenants" by which to live.

I haven't kept up with this whole transgendered thing in the military. I don't see why it should matter. A person's sexuality is their own business, so keep it that way. There are a lot of things people don't want to do when they go into the service. Some people don't want to shave their heads, but it's not about you. If people with penises have to dress and act a certain way, then you do it. You just go in there, keep your mouth shut, do you job, serve your time and get the hell out of there if that's what you want to do. Why should your sexuality have anything to do with that?

People just need to relax on both sides, but it's hard. Life is so good that we have nothing better to do than create more things to moan about.

[winsor 185]

billvon

Good article on FOX News by Michael Anthony, lead pastor of Grace Fellowship. Anthony points out that Jesus would not recognize the evangelical right today as any sort of Christianity.

Jesus was not a Christian, and would not recognize any form of 'Christianity.'

[billvon 2,379]

>Jesus was not a Christian, and would not recognize any form of 'Christianity.'

That's like saying that Werner von Braun was not part of the space age, and would not recognize anything to do with modern planetary exploration. Technically correct, perhaps (he did most of his work before Sputnik) but sort of missing the point.

[RonD1120 58]

yoink

***
The Holy Spirit always leads you to a closer relationship with Jesus Christ not to your cake.

You're deliberately misunderstanding.


I'm pretty sure most practicing Christians would say that I'm not a Christian and that I'm probably not going to their version of heaven - I don't go to church, I abhor organised religion in general, have never read the bible and disagree that religion gives people the right to tell others how they should live their lives.

I simply try to live by 3 tenants: Don't deliberately be a dick to people, try to leave the world a better place than I found it, and take responsibility for your actions. That's all.
And that's how I'm raising my child - No hating or judging people because of their sexuality or religious beliefs. No threats of eternal damnation if you don't subscribe to my viewpoint and no get-out-of-jail-free clause for being 'found' or 'redeemed'.

I can honestly say that my behavior lets me hear the 'small still voice of the Holy Spirit' just as you do, despite probably being at odds with almost everything you believe; that little voice that says 'this is the right and moral thing to do in a given situation...

So what is it? Is mine an accurate representation of Christianity as BartsDaddy asked? If not, why is yours the right one?

What is missing in your life?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

>Jesus was not a Christian, and would not recognize any form of 'Christianity.'

That's like saying that Werner von Braun was not part of the space age, and would not recognize anything to do with modern planetary exploration. Technically correct, perhaps (he did most of his work before Sputnik) but sort of missing the point.

Winsor is correct. Jesus the Christ was a Jew and He spoke to the Jews of His time. Christians did not come on the scene until the Holy Spirit descended on the 120 in the upper room as tongues of fire on the Day of Pentecost. They came out and converted 3K. Later Saul who became Paul took the message to the Gentiles.

The only point I would add to his post is that Jesus is not looking for a form of Christianity. Jesus the Christ is looking for relationship with us.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[winsor 185]

billvon

>Jesus was not a Christian, and would not recognize any form of 'Christianity.'

That's like saying that Werner von Braun was not part of the space age, and would not recognize anything to do with modern planetary exploration. Technically correct, perhaps (he did most of his work before Sputnik) but sort of missing the point.

Not even slightly.

Wehrner von Braun was a member of the Verein fuer Raumschiff Fahrt (Society for Space Ship Travel) long before he headed things up at Peenemunde. The Space Age was his life's work.

Jesus was an observant messianic Jew in keeping with Isaiah, and what is considered 'Christianity' in this day and age would have been unrecognizable to him, as well as anathema.

The messianic movement was usurped by Rome, who had Jesus put to death in the first place. If the Jewish authorities sought to put Jesus to death they did not need to go through the Romans, they would have cut to the chase and done so themselves. Allegations that the Jews were the killers of Christ came, strangely, from the Romans.

It is akin to the death of the two princes being attributed to Richard III by Henry Tudor, when it was Henry that stood to benefit from their demise but Richard did not.

Nothing remotely similar to Christianity existed during Jesus' life, and the agenda of Roman Christianity and messianic Judaism are entirely dissimilar.

Again, Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew.

[Lawndarter 3]

winsor

Nothing remotely similar to Christianity existed during Jesus' life, and the agenda of Roman Christianity and messianic Judaism are entirely dissimilar.

And the Romans used a whole lot of Pagan stuff to make Christianity up in the first place. They simply changed existing festivals to mesh with the story once they turned Christianity into something as coherent as they could to harness it.

I don't get the attraction of it or any other religion, I just kind of like the tenets someone went with above, none of which require me to believe in anyone's mythologies.

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

What is missing in your life?

Nothing I can think of.

Answer the question.

[RonD1120 58]

If you are completely satisfied with everything in your life then there is nothing that Jesus Christ can offer.

Jesus died as the once for all sacrifice for all sinners. It is a gift that must be accepted to be of beneficial significance.

I have a relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that began in earnest on 16 Mar 1981 when I was homeless and stranded at Mono Lake in the Sierra Nevada Mountains.

I have my testimony to share, that is all. Since that moment I have been walking my path of salvation.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

Lawndarter

...I don't get the attraction of it or any other religion, I just kind of like the tenets someone went with above, none of which require me to believe in anyone's mythologies.

That promise of "eternal life" in heaven, where you don't have to die and everything is perfect is pretty attractive.

The threat of "eternal damnation" in hell if you don't do the things they tell you to is also a fairly effective way to gain converts.

Very classic 'carrot and stick' approach.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,379]

>Wehrner von Braun was a member of the Verein fuer Raumschiff Fahrt (Society for
>Space Ship Travel) long before he headed things up at Peenemunde. The Space Age was
>his life's work.

And Christianity was Christ's life's work, even though most of Christianity came after he died.

>Again, Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew.

And von Braun was a Nazi - even though we credit him with much of the US's success in space.

[DirtyChai 0]

winsor

The messianic movement was usurped by Rome, who had Jesus put to death in the first place. If the Jewish authorities sought to put Jesus to death they did not need to go through the Romans, they would have cut to the chase and done so themselves. Allegations that the Jews were the killers of Christ came, strangely, from the Romans.

It is akin to the death of the two princes being attributed to Richard III by Henry Tudor, when it was Henry that stood to benefit from their demise but Richard did not.

Rome usurped Christianity in the early 4th century. It's apparent that until then, they didn't recognize any foreseeable benefit coming from it. In fact, Christianity was perceived as a threat, which is why it was outlawed and it's followers brutally murdered.

It's pretty much the same reason Jewish leaders wanted Jesus killed. His influence over the people was a threat to their power. Killing him would have been unpopular among the multitudes that took a liking to him, so they just diverted the blame by having the Romans do their dirty work.

[winsor 185]

billvon

>Wehrner von Braun was a member of the Verein fuer Raumschiff Fahrt (Society for
>Space Ship Travel) long before he headed things up at Peenemunde. The Space Age was
>his life's work.

And Christianity was Christ's life's work, even though most of Christianity came after he died.
>Again, Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew.

And von Braun was a Nazi - even though we credit him with much of the US's success in space.

I reiterate that "Christianity" had precisely nothing to do with Jesus. Accounts to the contrary stem from the parties that executed him, co-opted the movement and morphed it into something unrecognizable.

von Braun simply applied innovations patented by Robert Hutchings Goddard, translations of which were published in toto by the VRF.

Goddard was the visionary, von Braun was a follower who took the credit.

[gowlerk 1,901]

Not much point to any of this. The real meaning of Christianity, or any other "ism", is different for each and every adherent. Telling Ron he is not being a "good" Christian is not effective and not even relevant. None of us can prove or disprove the beliefs at the core of any religion. Only behavior can be judged. See my signature line for more on this.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Lawndarter 3]

wolfriverjoe

That promise of "eternal life" in heaven, where you don't have to die and everything is perfect is pretty attractive.

I don't really see any value in such a lofty but completely baseless claim.

wolfriverjoe

The threat of "eternal damnation" in hell if you don't do the things they tell you to is also a fairly effective way to gain converts.

And yet that doesn't really square with the whole story of Jesus' death somehow "redeeming" all.

wolfriverjoe

Very classic 'carrot and stick' approach.

Solid meh from me.

[normiss 619]

Worship the carrot or get the stick for all of eternity!