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What's the most appropriate way to disseminate a policy on banning transgender individuals from serving in the military?

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Some quick facts:

The current military website on trans soldiers is still up, and it states "Effective immediately, transgender Service members may serve openly, and they can no longer be discharged or otherwise separated from the military solely for being transgender individuals." https://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Reports/0616_transgender-policy/

From a RAND study:
If the U.S. military decides to let transgender people serve openly, the number would likely be a small fraction of the total force and have minimal impact on readiness and health care costs, according to a new RAND Corporation study . . . . The study estimates the number of transgender individuals currently serving in the active component of the U.S. military at between 1,320 and 6,630 out of a total of about 1.3 million service members. https://www.rand.org/news/press/2016/06/30.html

From Snopes:
Already, there are as many as 250 service members in the process of transitioning to their preferred genders or who have been approved to formally change gender within the Pentagon’s personnel system, according to several defense officials.
http://www.snopes.com/2017/07/26/trump-transgender-military/

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Sounds like a fairly large stack of lawsuits just awaiting to be filed.

It's sad that patriotic Americans who have put their lives on the line to uphold and defend the constitution that protects them only to be hated by those who refused to serve.
Interesting Trump could play active sports in college but his feet hurt too much to actively serve.
He has zero honor, integrity, or patriotism.

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normiss

Sounds like a fairly large stack of lawsuits just awaiting to be filed.

It's sad that patriotic Americans who have put their lives on the line to uphold and defend the constitution that protects them only to be hated by those who refused to serve.
Interesting Trump could play active sports in college but his feet hurt too much to actively serve.
He has zero honor, integrity, or patriotism.



Pffft.

Sounds like the orange cheeto is feeling the heat from the Russia investigation.

So he puts out something outrageous and ridiculous to draw attention, hoping the Russia stuff will be forgotten.

Not the first time he's done this.

Distraction and misdirection are standard "Con Man" techniques.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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GeorgiaDon

***The Wikipedia article seems to support her life as disturbed and confused.

Pot, meet kettle. :S

Don

I'll admit to being disturbed at times but I am not confused. I know exactly what is going on in these last days.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

I'll admit to being disturbed at times but I am not confused. I know exactly what is going on in these last days.


And yet you thought California was a welfare state.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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melch



You seem to forget that +85% of the military serves in a support role for roughly 15% of the forces that actually have a combat role. Additionally, if we are kicking out the emotionally disturbed or those with "mental disorders", the American people would be quickly shocked to discover the numbers of soldiers (I can't speak to the other branches) that visit Behavioral Health services for everything from bi polar disorders to severe addictions.

If they can meet the standards (Army are incredibly low by the way) let them serve. They are already better than the majority of Americans in my opinion simply because they are willing to serve a country that tries to belittle them. When people make comments about "special accommodations", I laugh at their ignorance. There are no special trans bathrooms or barracks nor will there be. When you are a one gender, you use the appropriate facilities until your marker changes IAW the current policy and then you use the other facilities. In the field, everyone shits in a hole, problem solved.

My only concern as an active duty member is their ability to deploy. I have not had to deal with it personally, but I would be intrigued by their transition plan and how long it puts them in a non-deployable status. I've had soldiers undergo spinal surgery and extreme dental procedures (the kind where they break your jaw to correct issues) and be non-deployable for 9 months-ish. If we are willing to put that kind of commitment into one soldier then we should offer another soldier the same luxury.



Thank you for an honest and real time response instead of a theoretical one.

I do not have contact with active duty personnel. My opinions are based on military service between 1960-1975. My generation is/was wary of queer servicemen. We knew they existed but not who or where.

In today's world, you indicate that the main point of concern is deployability. That makes sense. Eighteen and nineteen-year-olds have grown up with the fad of homosexuality, as my granddaughter calls it, so it is not such a big deal.

I wonder about the drain of taxpayer funds and military strength if we have people joining just to receive an expensive sex-change operation at government expense. I suppose the counter point would be that people join to get a free education.

The trust issue of a fellow combatant is still prevalent with me and my peer veterans. How can you completely trust a person that is not certain why he has a penis?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Why does your god continue to make humans his "believer" will hate?
He's been doing it since humans first grew from the primordial slime.

I never had any distrust for my fellow Americans in the service.
Personally never had any interest in their genitalia whatsoever, nor will I ever understand the christians who are obsessed with other people's genitalia and what they do in their own privacy.

No complaints about the amount the government spends on ED blue pills though, no?

It's not a fad as you call it Ron, some people are simply born that way. Much like yourself.

You have some deep issues there pal.

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billvon

> How can you completely trust a person that is not certain why he has a penis?

You mean like a priest? Or an old guy?



I'm an old guy and I have no doubts about what to do with mine.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Quote

I do not have contact with active duty personnel. My opinions are based on military service between 1960-1975. My generation is/was wary of queer servicemen.


Your generation was also wary of black kids going to school.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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>I'm an old guy and I have no doubts about what to do with mine.

Well, great! But face it - for a lot of old guys it, you know, doesn't work any more. How can you completely trust a person that is standing there holding his penis not sure how to get it to work?

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>It's sad that patriotic Americans who have put their lives on the line to uphold
>and defend the constitution that protects them only to be hated by those who
>refused to serve.

Hey, Trump's still a war hero. Unlike McCain, he was never captured, which means he's a cut above that failing senator.
==================================
Trump Says He Heroically Avoided Capture in Vietnam by Staying in U.S.

By Andy Borowitz

AMES, IOWA (The Borowitz Report)—President Donald Trump revealed a little-known episode of personal heroism from his youth on Saturday, telling an Iowa audience that he narrowly avoided capture in Vietnam by remaining in the United States for the duration of the war.

“The Cong were after me,” Trump said, visibly stirred by the memory. “And then, just in the nick of time, I got my deferment.”

The former reality-show star said he had never shared his record as a war hero before because “I don’t like to boast.”

He said that he only disclosed the episode now because “the way this nation treats our deferment veterans is a disgrace.”

Trump complained that he received no official commendation or medal for his heroism, calling the lack of recognition “shameful.”

“Those brave Americans who, like me, avoided being captured by not serving at all—we are the true heroes,” he said.

Trump’s tale of valor appeared to move many members of his audience, some of whom waited in line after his speech to thank him for his lack of service.
=====================

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billvon

> How can you completely trust a person that is not certain why he has a penis?

You mean like a priest? Or an old guy?



I am wary of priests. I don't associate with them unnecessarily.

I only know one old guy that talks about his penis. He wants to get a penal implant. He will no doubt try to get the VA to pay for it. He is also our strongest Trump supporter.

Mine quit working a long while ago when I started to understand that I was a spirit and not a body. The spirit wars against the flesh you know. (See Galatians 5:16 -18)
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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normiss

Military spends lots of $$$$$$ on Viagra, so don't worry!



See, that comparison between estimated spending on transgender medical care and how much we spend on Viagra and Cialis could have been the catalyst for a savvy Democrat to turn the health care discussion to prescription drug prices, and other reasons health care costs are prohibitively high. Quit talking about paying for health insurance only, and move the discussion to the COSTS of treatment. Figure out how to get that under control. :S
See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

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TriGirl

***Military spends lots of $$$$$$ on Viagra, so don't worry!



See, that comparison between estimated spending on transgender medical care and how much we spend on Viagra and Cialis could have been the catalyst for a savvy Democrat to turn the health care discussion to prescription drug prices, and other reasons health care costs are prohibitively high. Quit talking about paying for health insurance only, and move the discussion to the COSTS of treatment. Figure out how to get that under control. :S

Oh wait, sorry -- I was talking about elected federal legislators being rational and making sense. Sorry about that, I don't know what I was thinking. Belay my last. Please move along. :P
See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

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Phil1111

************Lets also not forget this:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742771576039460864

From Donald Trump - 14th June 2016:

Quote

Thank you to the LGBT community! I will fight for you while Hillary brings in more people that will threaten your freedoms and beliefs.



Let's just keep them out of the military. We need warriors not emotionally disturbed, gender confused victims in the ranks.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/opinions/kristin-beck-on-trump-transgender-tweet-opinion/index.html

We should take up a collection to send him her to the WH.

To kick trump's ass!!!

Needless to say this command will not stand.

Even you're confused now. :)

Its a good thing I have you as my wingman.

Glad I could help.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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Great news!
My lack of faith in a non-existant being will make my tallywhacker work forever!!!
At almost 56, it's absolutely perfect now, unlike my younger coworkers I hear crying when trying to pee.
Whew!
Dodged that god damn religion bullet AGAIN!!!

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I wonder about the drain of taxpayer funds and military strength if we have people joining just to receive an expensive sex-change operation at government expense. I suppose the counter point would be that people join to get a free education.

The trust issue of a fellow combatant is still prevalent with me and my peer veterans. How can you completely trust a person that is not certain why he has a penis?



You've hit the nail on the head with the counter point. Allow me to wax poetic for a moment by saying that, in my estimate, 85% of the people that join the military do not join because of an overwhelming sense of patriotic duty. They join for much more tangible reasons: benefits, healthcare, education, skill training, financial stability, escaping a bad situation, etc. There are some that join purely to serve their country but the numbers are not many. Through basic training, advanced individual training, and unit training, the esprit d'corps, culture, and patriotism are established in the individual (or indoctrinated if you want to argue that point). Ask an initial term member why they serve and they will provide a much different answer than someone that is on their 3rd contract or a lifer.

If someone wants to join just for a sex change, I don't really care. They will sign up, serve their obligation as deemed by their respective branch and move on. I roll that under Veterans benefits the same I would education benefits or any other benefits packages available to vets. The amount of fraud, waste, and abuse in the acquisitions and logistics area are far more concerning to me than the negligible costs of hormone treatments for an estimated 1500-6000 people. The military budget spends more on medical necessities of dependas and their broods than on actual service members. At least the transgenders are actually serving.

To your last comment, I can trust them because I don't care about what is in their pants. I care about their demonstrated ability to uphold the physical standards set forth by the Army for their appropriate gender marker, their professional competence, and desire to achieve success on behalf of themselves and the unit.

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melch

Quote

I wonder about the drain of taxpayer funds and military strength if we have people joining just to receive an expensive sex-change operation at government expense. I suppose the counter point would be that people join to get a free education.

The trust issue of a fellow combatant is still prevalent with me and my peer veterans. How can you completely trust a person that is not certain why he has a penis?



You've hit the nail on the head with the counter point. Allow me to wax poetic for a moment by saying that, in my estimate, 85% of the people that join the military do not join because of an overwhelming sense of patriotic duty. They join for much more tangible reasons: benefits, healthcare, education, skill training, financial stability, escaping a bad situation, etc. There are some that join purely to serve their country but the numbers are not many. Through basic training, advanced individual training, and unit training, the esprit d'corps, culture, and patriotism are established in the individual (or indoctrinated if you want to argue that point). Ask an initial term member why they serve and they will provide a much different answer than someone that is on their 3rd contract or a lifer.

If someone wants to join just for a sex change, I don't really care. They will sign up, serve their obligation as deemed by their respective branch and move on. I roll that under Veterans benefits the same I would education benefits or any other benefits packages available to vets. The amount of fraud, waste, and abuse in the acquisitions and logistics area are far more concerning to me than the negligible costs of hormone treatments for an estimated 1500-6000 people. The military budget spends more on medical necessities of dependas and their broods than on actual service members. At least the transgenders are actually serving.

To your last comment, I can trust them because I don't care about what is in their pants. I care about their demonstrated ability to uphold the physical standards set forth by the Army for their appropriate gender marker, their professional competence, and desire to achieve success on behalf of themselves and the unit.



Agree completely. The same argument has been used since the 1950's with regards to pilots. That aviators were joining the services just to get free training to move onto the major airlines.

Even greater reasons now that ATP is 1500 min.

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Here is a sampling of opinion from my generation by the Association of Mature American Citizens, see attached.

AMAC is the conservative counter to the liberal AARP.

Note: I voted unsure based on mulch's response to me.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

Here is a sampling of opinion from my generation


That's a sampling of opinion from conservatives who are conservative enough to join a conservative association that only exists to lobby for conservative interests.

That they are also very old probably isn't the major factor in their support for a conservative policy.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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jakee

***Here is a sampling of opinion from my generation


That's a sampling of opinion from conservatives who are conservative enough to join a conservative association that only exists to lobby for conservative interests.

That they are also very old probably isn't the major factor in their support for a conservative policy.

And, they are your elders, could be your parents. Well, not yours because you do not live here. They have experience in life which produces wisdom.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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