In energy news

[billvon 2,384]

Some bad news for coal miners and the GOP, good news for Hawaiians and everyone else.

====================
World's biggest coal company closes 37 mines as solar power's influence grows

Plummeting price of renewable energy puts pressure on fossil fuel firms

Harriet Agerholm
The Independent
6/21/2017

The largest coal mining company in the world has announced it will close 37 mines because they are no longer economically viable.

Coal India, which produces around 82 per cent of India's coal, said the mines would be decommissioned by March 2018.

The closures, of around 9 per cent of the state-run firm's sites, will reportedly save around 8,000,000,000 rupees (£98m).

India's solar sector has received heavy international investment, and the plummeting price of solar electricity has increased pressure on fossil fuel companies in the country.

The government has announced it will not build any more coal plants after 2022 and predicts renewables will generate 57 per cent of its power by 2027 – a pledge far outstripping its commitment in the Paris climate change agreement.

Plans for nearly 14 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations – about the same as the total amount in the UK – were scrapped in May, signalling a seismic shift in the India's energy market.
====================
Tesla battery packs power the Hawaiian island of Kauai after dark
Phil LeBeau
Wednesday, 8 Mar 2017
CNBC.com

While investors on Wall Street debate whether Tesla's ambitious transformation from electric car maker to sustainable energy company will pay off, its industrial power packs are already having an impact on at least one state.

In Hawaii, the Kauai Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC) is now drawing energy from 272 Tesla power packs to provide electricity after dark. While the island previously relied on solar and other renewable energy during the day, it had no way to store the sun's power after it went down.

Using stored energy from Tesla's power packs is expected to save KIUC 1.6 million gallons of diesel fuel annually, which has traditionally been the way the utility generates power after dark.

Tesla says the power packs will cut KIUC costs per kilowatt hour from 15.5 cents down to 13.9 cents. The 13.9 cents is a fixed price for the next 20 years.
======================

[winsor 186]

billvon

Some bad news for coal miners and the GOP, good news for Hawaiians and everyone else.

====================
World's biggest coal company closes 37 mines as solar power's influence grows

Plummeting price of renewable energy puts pressure on fossil fuel firms

Harriet Agerholm
The Independent
6/21/2017

The largest coal mining company in the world has announced it will close 37 mines because they are no longer economically viable.

Coal India, which produces around 82 per cent of India's coal, said the mines would be decommissioned by March 2018.

The closures, of around 9 per cent of the state-run firm's sites, will reportedly save around 8,000,000,000 rupees (£98m).

India's solar sector has received heavy international investment, and the plummeting price of solar electricity has increased pressure on fossil fuel companies in the country.

The government has announced it will not build any more coal plants after 2022 and predicts renewables will generate 57 per cent of its power by 2027 – a pledge far outstripping its commitment in the Paris climate change agreement.

Plans for nearly 14 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations – about the same as the total amount in the UK – were scrapped in May, signalling a seismic shift in the India's energy market.
====================
Tesla battery packs power the Hawaiian island of Kauai after dark
Phil LeBeau
Wednesday, 8 Mar 2017
CNBC.com

While investors on Wall Street debate whether Tesla's ambitious transformation from electric car maker to sustainable energy company will pay off, its industrial power packs are already having an impact on at least one state.

In Hawaii, the Kauai Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC) is now drawing energy from 272 Tesla power packs to provide electricity after dark. While the island previously relied on solar and other renewable energy during the day, it had no way to store the sun's power after it went down.

Using stored energy from Tesla's power packs is expected to save KIUC 1.6 million gallons of diesel fuel annually, which has traditionally been the way the utility generates power after dark.

Tesla says the power packs will cut KIUC costs per kilowatt hour from 15.5 cents down to 13.9 cents. The 13.9 cents is a fixed price for the next 20 years.
======================

The relationship between coal miners and the GOP has to do with votes, not profits. Similarly, the push for 'green' energy by the left has more to do with perception than reality.

If there is a buck to be made by insider trading, whether it entails saving or ruining the environment, I am sure that our esteemed representatives on both sides of the aisle will be all over it - regardless of what they officially espouse.

My longstanding contention is that fusion power is the way to go, and that we should keep the reactor at a safe distance, say 93 million miles.


BSBD,

Winsor

[rushmc 18]

In other energy news. Making the batteries for one Tesla releases as much CO2 as driving a V8 sedan for eight years

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,384]

>In other energy news. Making the batteries for one Tesla releases as much CO2 as
>driving a V8 sedan for eight years

Headline from WattsUpWithThat: (I know, you were hoping no one knew what source you got it from)

"Tesla car battery production releases as much CO2 as 8 years of gasoline driving"

Let's look at the details of the story:

"The report shows that the battery manufacturing leads to high emissions. For every kilowatt hour of storage capacity in the battery generated emissions of 150 to 200 kilos of carbon dioxide already in the factory. The researchers did not study individual brand batteries, how these were produced, or the electricity mix they use."

So WUWT claimed the researchers did not look at:

-What kind of carbon releases are caused by the production of the batteries
-Which type of battery releases more CO2
-What kind of carbon releases are caused by the type of power used by the battery plant

OK then. So they ignored most of the CO2 and just made shit up. In other words, a standard WattsUpWithThat report.

But now let's look at the original Swedish report. As part of the report they stated:

=================
The calculation is based on the assumption that the electricity mix used in the battery plant accounts for more than half of fossil power. In Sweden, power generation predominantly consists of fossil-free nuclear and hydropower, as a result of which lower emissions could have been achieved.
==================

So more than half of the CO2 emissions comes from the dirty power used to power the battery factory. What will the Gigafactory use for its power?

========================
Tesla's Gigafactory will produce as much renewable energy as it uses (net zero energy)

Michael Graham Richard
Energy / Renewable Energy
November 16, 2015

The battery 'Gigafactory' that Tesla is building in Nevada is the centerpiece of its whole mass-market electric car strategy. Without it, the company will have trouble securing enough battery supply to make hundreds of thousands of EVs (which they plan to do for the upcoming, more affordable Model 3, to be unveiled in March 2016), and it will have trouble reducing its prices enough to attract Mr. and Mrs. Everybody (the Gigafactory is expected to slash costs by at least 30% through economies of scale and high-tech manufacturing).

A lot has been written about how big the Gigafactory will be: It's going to be one of the largest building on Earth (how it ranks will depend how much the original plan is expanded), and it will produce more batteries when it is fully operational than the whole world was producing in 2013, as you can see in the graph below.

But relatively little has been written about another very cool aspect of the project: It will be a 'net zero' energy consumer and have carbon neutral operations.
============================

Looks like you got burned again by your right wing "news" sources.

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>In other energy news. Making the batteries for one Tesla releases as much CO2 as
>driving a V8 sedan for eight years

Headline from WattsUpWithThat: (I know, you were hoping no one knew what source you got it from)

"Tesla car battery production releases as much CO2 as 8 years of gasoline driving"

Let's look at the details of the story:

"The report shows that the battery manufacturing leads to high emissions. For every kilowatt hour of storage capacity in the battery generated emissions of 150 to 200 kilos of carbon dioxide already in the factory. The researchers did not study individual brand batteries, how these were produced, or the electricity mix they use."

So WUWT claimed the researchers did not look at:

-What kind of carbon releases are caused by the production of the batteries
-Which type of battery releases more CO2
-What kind of carbon releases are caused by the type of power used by the battery plant

OK then. So they ignored most of the CO2 and just made shit up. In other words, a standard WattsUpWithThat report.

But now let's look at the original Swedish report. As part of the report they stated:

=================
The calculation is based on the assumption that the electricity mix used in the battery plant accounts for more than half of fossil power. In Sweden, power generation predominantly consists of fossil-free nuclear and hydropower, as a result of which lower emissions could have been achieved.
==================

So more than half of the CO2 emissions comes from the dirty power used to power the battery factory. What will the Gigafactory use for its power?

========================
Tesla's Gigafactory will produce as much renewable energy as it uses (net zero energy)

Michael Graham Richard
Energy / Renewable Energy
November 16, 2015

The battery 'Gigafactory' that Tesla is building in Nevada is the centerpiece of its whole mass-market electric car strategy. Without it, the company will have trouble securing enough battery supply to make hundreds of thousands of EVs (which they plan to do for the upcoming, more affordable Model 3, to be unveiled in March 2016), and it will have trouble reducing its prices enough to attract Mr. and Mrs. Everybody (the Gigafactory is expected to slash costs by at least 30% through economies of scale and high-tech manufacturing).

A lot has been written about how big the Gigafactory will be: It's going to be one of the largest building on Earth (how it ranks will depend how much the original plan is expanded), and it will produce more batteries when it is fully operational than the whole world was producing in 2013, as you can see in the graph below.

But relatively little has been written about another very cool aspect of the project: It will be a 'net zero' energy consumer and have carbon neutral operations.
============================

Looks like you got burned again by your right wing "news" sources.

2 things bill, I'm not burned by using that site. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad site. And it's not. 2nd off in the energy news the electricity that comes to charge the Tesla comess from 80% of coal-burning plants go figure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

By the way what's up with that did not write that report. It only posted it. So you trying to link it to that site is deceiving on your part

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,384]

>2 things bill, I'm not burned by using that site.

You have been made, once again, to look foolish by letting a right wing site lead you around by your nose. Don't you get tired of being wrong all the time?

> 2nd off in the energy news the electricity that comes to charge the Tesla comess
>from 80% of coal-burning plants go figure

The energy to charge my EV comes from my solar power system.

Actually it's even better than that. During the day, when people are running their air conditioners, I am dumping solar power into the grid to help power them. Then, at night, when there is too much generation and they have to start actually wasting that power to avoid shutting plants down (or even paying other utilities to take it) I use the excess to charge my EV.

But here's a chance to see if you can think outside the pap that the right wing press feeds you. The report compared building a Tesla battery to driving a big V8. How much Co2 is released by BUILDING that big V8? Say a Land Rover Discovery. You won't find that on Breitbart or WattsUpWithThat so you might have to go outside your comfort zone.

Let's see if you can.

[Phil1111 908]

billvon

>2 things bill, I'm not burned by using that site.

You have been made, once again, to look foolish by letting a right wing site lead you around by your nose. Don't you get tired of being wrong all the time?

> 2nd off in the energy news the electricity that comes to charge the Tesla comess
>from 80% of coal-burning plants go figure

The energy to charge my EV comes from my solar power system.

Actually it's even better than that. During the day, when people are running their air conditioners, I am dumping solar power into the grid to help power them. Then, at night, when there is too much generation and they have to start actually wasting that power to avoid shutting plants down (or even paying other utilities to take it) I use the excess to charge my EV.

But here's a chance to see if you can think outside the pap that the right wing press feeds you. The report compared building a Tesla battery to driving a big V8. How much Co2 is released by BUILDING that big V8? Say a Land Rover Discovery. You won't find that on Breitbart or WattsUpWithThat so you might have to go outside your comfort zone.

Let's see if you can.

Yep,...burned again...SAD .

Sorry Rush, just too tempting.

Don't worry. Eventually the sun will burn out and all this green energy will be obsolete just like coal.

[yoink 321]

rushmc

. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad site.

Absolutely. You're correct.

The fact that it seems to demonstrably get its facts wrong - not just its opinions, means that it's a bad news site.

[jakee 1,254]

rushmc

In other energy news. Making the batteries for one Tesla releases as much CO2 as driving a V8 sedan for eight years

And how much CO2 does making that V8 release?

Who comes out ahead after production and 8 years use of the Tesla vs production and 8 years use of the V8?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Lawndarter 3]

I have to laugh. This is a skydiving website and I mostly read skydiving related stuff on it, but I comment more in Speakers Corner because it seems like I have more to say here than comments on more involved skygod conversations.

But please, rushmc, never stop letting billvon make you look like a complete fool when you post nonsense and he slays it.

[Phil1111 908]

US President Donald Trump has told supporters that his proposed wall along the border with Mexico could have solar panels fixed to it.

He suggested the plan was his own, saying: "Pretty good imagination, right? Good? My idea."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40363390

I guess the idea that the panels face the sun rather than border jumping Mexicans never occurred to him.

[m529gft 0]

Lawndarter

I have to laugh. This is a skydiving website and I mostly read skydiving related stuff on it, but I comment more in Speakers Corner because it seems like I have more to say here than comments on more involved skygod conversations.

But please, rushmc, never stop letting billvon make you look like a complete fool when you post nonsense and he slays it.

As a Brit I can't but help picturing some guns 'n' god, Stetson wearing yahoo when I picture the poster who shared that clearly false data about Tesla's environmental impact.

But as a Brit, I'm sure you're picturing a posh bloke with really bad teeth.

Perspective is everything

Werewolves not swearwolves

[billvon 2,384]

>He suggested the plan was his own, saying: "Pretty good imagination, right? Good? My idea."

Yep. I hear solar panels are his idea too. Don't forget, he invented the phrase "priming the pump."

Next thing you know, he will think of not just putting solar panels on walls - but on roofs, too.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

The majority of his followers will praise him for this brilliant idea.

The right wing headlines will praise him for it. The body of the article will then explain how it already is in place, bla bla bla.

As we see on here constantly, his followers tend to not have the mental capacity to understand what is written below the headline.

[kallend 1,621]

rushmc

By the way what's up with that did not write that report. It only posted it. So you trying to link it to that site is deceiving on your part

That comes over like the Trump apologists saying he didn't mean what he tweeted, he was just joking.

It's always fun reading the drivel that you post.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/29/toxic-waste-from-solar-panels-300-times-that-of-nuclear-power/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skinnay 0]

rushmc

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/29/toxic-waste-from-solar-panels-300-times-that-of-nuclear-power/

So solar generates 300 times more waste than nuclear. It's pretty convenient to ignore that nuclear generates almost no waste to begin with. It's also convenient to ignore the fact that despite being even 300 times in volume, is still vastly safer than nuclear waste.

To me it would only make sense to compare the waste to other technology and electronics manufacturing. But I'm guessing that won't get you want to believe so badly.

[billvon 2,384]

Gist of the article - solar generates 300 times the amount of toxic waste that nuclear does.

OK. So I will make you a deal. I'll store 400 pounds of solar waste (retired panels) at my house. I'll probably store them on the roof; will get some additional energy that way. If not I will stick them in the garage (following all the applicable safety standards of course.)

You store a pound of spent nuclear fuel in your house, following the same standards.

[gowlerk 1,903]

billvon

Gist of the article - solar generates 300 times the amount of toxic waste that nuclear does.

OK. So I will make you a deal. I'll store 400 pounds of solar waste (retired panels) at my house. I'll probably store them on the roof; will get some additional energy that way. If not I will stick them in the garage (following all the applicable safety standards of course.)

You store a pound of spent nuclear fuel in your house, following the same standards.

Hey Bill, too easy!

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[PhreeZone 14]

If you notice the article was also changed to just indicate total waste and not toxic waste. This means that all the recyclable materials that go into a panel can be removed from that figure in the future as facilities come online to recycle solar panels. Companies have found it is extremely profitable to recycle used electronics like computers, circuit boards and similar while they contain some of the same toxic materials. As supplies of retired solar panels start to reach a critical point where owners are looking to dispose of them in large numbers I am sure that more recycling facilities will be coming online to take advantage of this. In fact the industry has already created processes where 96% of all waste is recaptured for some panels https://www.pv-tech.org/news/pv-cycle-achieves-record-96-recycle-rate-for-silicon-based-pv-modules

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[kallend 1,621]

Quote

wattsupwiththat.com

More misleading drivel from rush's favorite junk news site.

Is the company that pays your salary still spewing 30 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.