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jgoose71

Alexandria Shooting: Shot heard around the world? [On Topic]

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Sorry for starting a separate thread, but I wanted to invoke the [on topic] to keep this from going down the gun debate rabbit whole that the other thread has seemed to have gone running down.

I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed the state of politics now a days, especially the amount of hate being spewed. So now we have a politically motivated shooting on our hands. What happens next?

Do you think this is the "Shot heard around the world" and now civil war is imminent? Or do you guys think we may be able to turn this boat around?

I was glad to hear congress speak in unity this morning after the shooting. I haven't seen this much cooperation since 9/11.

But of course, this wasn't an action against the unwashed masses outside their walled compounds. This was them directly being targeted... and I'll say it, they deserved it because of rhetoric coming out of Washington. They reaped what they have sown.

So is this a wake up call? Will they get their act together? How long do you think the niceties will last? Or was this the first battle in the next Civil War?
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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I was just on FB with a couple of other old time skydiving folk talking about just this.

One is convinced this is the start, of course he's also been wanting to start a civil war for years anyway. He honestly sounds like he thinks the "purge" is a good idea. :S

The other is trying to tell me this was an assassination attempt and not a mental health issue.

I'm reasonably certain it IS a mental health issue. A wacko with easy assess to guns. Yeah, yeah, this gets back into the very thing you didn't want to talk about, but I don't see any way around it.

No. I do not think there is an organized "left" gunning for politicians in an attempt to start a civil war.

That's just, in my opinion, stupid.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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OTOH, there were voters before the election saying that if XX won/didn't win, there would probably be an armed uprising. :S

I said after the election, and at least once since, that members of Congress (both sides of the aisle plus independents, in both houses -- IOW, all of them) would do well to grow up and behave like adults to get things done. That if R's kept supporting the president no matter what (simply voting along party lines), the American pubic would lump them together with the president, and the whole party would suffer such a crisis of confidence it would not be able to recover. That the Republican party was already in disarray, and the only way to save it was for Congress to get back to professional and frankly adult behavior.

If anything good can come from today's incident, it would be that that very behavior and those professional relationships are now being showcased. The slow momentum of individual officials simply serving as the example and having to wait until someone notices has now been overtaken by public statements of respect for each other, and statements of the need to temper public rhetoric over political disagreements.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

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This was them directly being targeted... and I'll say it, they deserved it because of rhetoric coming out of Washington. They reaped what they have sown.



Really? I mean, really?

I hope you don't mean it that way, but it sounds like you are in support of killing our elected representatives. If you don't like them, vote them out, don't shoot at them.

- Dan G

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Snap out of it America. This is NOT a "shot heard around the world". It's not an insurrection. It's one wacko among many. How the hell can this be so important compared to the Gabby Giffords thing where a bunch of people died, including a child?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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quade

I was just on FB with a couple of other old time skydiving folk talking about just this.

One is convinced this is the start, of course he's also been wanting to start a civil war for years anyway. He honestly sounds like he thinks the "purge" is a good idea. :S

The other is trying to tell me this was an assassination attempt and not a mental health issue.

I'm reasonably certain it IS a mental health issue. A wacko with easy assess to guns. Yeah, yeah, this gets back into the very thing you didn't want to talk about, but I don't see any way around it.

No. I do not think there is an organized "left" gunning for politicians in an attempt to start a civil war.

That's just, in my opinion, stupid.



I would like to believe that it's just "one wacko with a gun" but it's going to take some investigation to get the whole truth.

Not trying to argue that everything that the left has been saying is right, wrong, or indifferent, but this guy has had the opportunity to consume a steady diet of hate. No matter how righteous everyone may think it is, hate is still hate.

Seriously, saying your going to go out and "Bash the Fash" killing a republican is the equivalent to self defense because all their policies are racist, sexist, homophobe xenophobe ideas that are going to destroy the earth isn't exactly the recipe for peace.

To make matters worse, that people can hide out in social media echo chambers and not get out into the real world to get perspective doesn't help either. It doesn't allow them to get any perspective and see the opposition as human.

I would like to believe that this is a one off incident, but taking a look at the extremism that is being taught and fed into the colleges like Berkley and Evergreen (look it up if you don't know what's going on there) that this groupthink behavior is OK needs to stop and not be perpetuated.

I know that we have had some real differences in the past (Hamilton and Burr come to mind) but I don't think that our country was as, shall we call it tribal on a mass scale? as we were back then (thank you social media)

I hope we get off this road before we get to the end, but we'll see...
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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DanG

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This was them directly being targeted... and I'll say it, they deserved it because of rhetoric coming out of Washington. They reaped what they have sown.



Really? I mean, really?

I hope you don't mean it that way, but it sounds like you are in support of killing our elected representatives. If you don't like them, vote them out, don't shoot at them.



Dan, I've spent the last 17 years at war. The last thing I want is more of it. And I especially don't want my family in the middle of it. I've seen enough dead bodies to last several life times.

At the same time I also know that know matter how much I may want something, that may not be enough to make it happen. Actions have consequences and deserves have nothing to do with it.

No matter how much you may want to save someone from the consequences....
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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jclalor

You give one crazy person way too much credit.



I don't know if you have been paying attention to any of the "Anti-Trump" rallies, but I think it's pretty safe to say there is more than one crazy person out there....
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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You are mad if you think the left is going to revolt. These are the same people who blew the election to Trump by being too lazy and unmotivated to bother voting.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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jgoose71

***You give one crazy person way too much credit.



I don't know if you have been paying attention to any of the "Anti-Trump" rallies, but I think it's pretty safe to say there is more than one crazy person out there....

I have been paying attention, and the fact of the matter is the vitriol now seen for Trump pales in comparison to what was shown to Obama. Where was all the criticism on the right when Bundy and his pals were drawing beads on federal officers? How many anti government militias have formed in the the last eight years? It's the rare occasion when a nut from the left does something like this.

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Do you think this is the "Shot heard around the world" and now civil war is imminent?



Of course it isn't.

Quote

This was them directly being targeted... and I'll say it, they deserved it because of rhetoric coming out of Washington.



Of course they didn't.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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gowlerk

You are mad if you think the left is going to revolt. These are the same people who blew the election to Trump by being too lazy and unmotivated to bother voting.



Yes, they were to lazy to vote, that's why there college proffesors are organizing them into "Black Blocs."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPvN5o2aRNs

You can close your eyes and pretend it's not happening at your own peril.

I hate to say it, but the left has become the party of hate, and unless they stop worrying about demonizing their opponents to gain some kind of superior moral ground so they can be right at all costs and start doing what's right, shits gonna get real.

Then being right won't matter any more...
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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jakee

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Do you think this is the "Shot heard around the world" and now civil war is imminent?



Of course it isn't.


Agreed, still a chance to get off this crazy train.

jakee

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This was them directly being targeted... and I'll say it, they deserved it because of rhetoric coming out of Washington.



Of course they didn't.


Agreed. I corrected my self earlier when I said "Action have consequences and deserves have nothing to do with it."
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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jgoose71

I corrected my self earlier when I said "Action have consequences and deserves have nothing to do with it."



Saying 'deserves have nothing to do with it' doesn't explicitly counter your earlier statement that you thought they deserved it.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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I hate to say it, but the left has become the party of hate,




Then don't say it. The left is not a party. Yes, the left sees very bad things when they look at Trump. But so does very large portions of the right. The current situation is unprecedented. But YOU are the one talking nonsense. Trump is being demonized because he behaves more or less like a demon.

The social disruption you seem to be predicting is not going to happen. But the political situation will in all likelihood deteriorate further. In the end it will not be the left that ends the Trump regime. It will be the Republicans turning against him.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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jgoose71



I would like to believe that it's just "one wacko with a gun" but it's going to take some investigation to get the whole truth.

Not trying to argue that everything that the left has been saying is right, wrong, or indifferent, but this guy has had the opportunity to consume a steady diet of hate. No matter how righteous everyone may think it is, hate is still hate.

Seriously, saying your going to go out and "Bash the Fash" killing a republican is the equivalent to self defense because all their policies are racist, sexist, homophobe xenophobe ideas that are going to destroy the earth isn't exactly the recipe for peace.

To make matters worse, that people can hide out in social media echo chambers and not get out into the real world to get perspective doesn't help either. It doesn't allow them to get any perspective and see the opposition as human.

I would like to believe that this is a one off incident, but taking a look at the extremism that is being taught and fed into the colleges like Berkley and Evergreen (look it up if you don't know what's going on there) that this groupthink behavior is OK needs to stop and not be perpetuated.

I know that we have had some real differences in the past (Hamilton and Burr come to mind) but I don't think that our country was as, shall we call it tribal on a mass scale? as we were back then (thank you social media)

I hope we get off this road before we get to the end, but we'll see...



Seriously? The left are the "hateful" ones?

Who has all the guns?
Who talks about 'overthrowing the government'?
Who has the hateful rhetoric towards gays, Muslims, women, ect?
Who said "Knock the crap out of them. I'll pay for the lawyer"?

All in all, this was one "whacko", who was pissed off enough at the Rs that he decided to try to take a bunch of them out.

I won't go so far as to say they 'deserved' it, but it's not all that surprising that there are some people pissed off at the Rs enough that they do something this extreme.

The extreme rhetoric and actions by Trump and his minions, the support of that by the entire R leadership, the ridiculous garbage coming out of Washington, all that has consequences.

To act surprised and outraged that this happened is pretty naive. Sort of along the same lines as the "pretend outrage and surprise" about the bigots and xenophobes who are now coming out from under their rocks and attacking Muslims. Trump and his ilk fed that outrage and it's consequences have become apparent. Backlash against it isn't all that surprising.

The only thing I'm surprised at is that it's taken this long before it happened.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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gowlerk

Snap out of it America. This is NOT a "shot heard around the world". It's not an insurrection. It's one wacko among many. How the hell can this be so important compared to the Gabby Giffords thing where a bunch of people died, including a child?



Go read what tv shows he posted as recomended watching. He posted on face book.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

***Snap out of it America. This is NOT a "shot heard around the world". It's not an insurrection. It's one wacko among many. How the hell can this be so important compared to the Gabby Giffords thing where a bunch of people died, including a child?



Go read what tv shows he posted as recomended watching. He posted on face book.

Please spare us the suspense.

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rushmc

***Snap out of it America. This is NOT a "shot heard around the world". It's not an insurrection. It's one wacko among many. How the hell can this be so important compared to the Gabby Giffords thing where a bunch of people died, including a child?



Go read what tv shows he posted as recomended watching. He posted on face book.

OH MY GOD! NO! You mean a nut job made of list of things people should do?

That's CLEARLY a sign of an upcoming civil war.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I cant call the shooter a wako i don't know enough about him.

I think we need to be mature enough to acknowledge at times we can understand an action and at the same time condone it. People on both sides are frustrated for many reasons, there is a boiling point.

No Civil war unless we keep talking about it and acting like it. Which i believe is the goal of our enemies, to split us apart.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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You have to remember that the Great Saint Reagan was shot and people still vehemently opposed the Brady Bill.

Civil War? That's just ridiculous.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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IMO the shooter lost perspective on what democracies and accommodation to other political interests are about.

I've said the same things here that the shooter did on facebook about trump. Be it left or right anything that trump does can be 1/2 undone next year and fully reversed in four. There are counties where so called democracies are but a veneer to cover real corruption. Quasi civil wars in regards to political pandering and institutionalized corruption. Pakistan being one, Russia another.

The shooter is dead today. No civil war is going to start. The somewhat messy US political process is mulling and muddling ahead. Today trump is under investigation for obstruction of justice. There is a system and it mostly works.

If the shooter had controlled himself. Stepped back from his views and obsessions he may have seen a light as early as...a month, a year, from now.

Its important to allow those who think owning a gun is the only thing in life that matters. To think that a single cent paid to a central government is theft. That all should have cradle to grave everything from a government. To express themselves. To have consideration for their views, for their money and their liberties.

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