Paris Accord: The King Speaks at 3PM

[normiss 622]

Trump, per a source, will follow the 4-yr rule to get out of Paris, meaning the US will leave on Nov 4, 2020.
Election Day 2020: Nov 3.

[yoink 321]

I don't necessarily disagree with Trumps statement. IF the accords are grossly unfair (i'm not expert enough to make that determination) then I think it's right and proper to renegotiate our involvement in them.

But that's a long, long way from denying climate change is happening or just undoing everything. What we need to see is him actually pull the separate sides together to create a better outcome - (that's leadership, Rush, not just making unilateral decisions), but I suspect compromise simply isn't in his nature.

[DJL 232]

yoink

I don't necessarily disagree with Trumps statement. IF the accords are grossly unfair (i'm not expert enough to make that determination) then I think it's right and proper to renegotiate our involvement in them.

We chose the conditions of our agreement and there is no penalty for not meeting them. What, does he want the world to also pay us if we don't meet the time table?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[TriGirl 268]

DJL

***I don't necessarily disagree with Trumps statement. IF the accords are grossly unfair (i'm not expert enough to make that determination) then I think it's right and proper to renegotiate our involvement in them.

We chose the conditions of our agreement and there is no penalty for not meeting them. What, does he want the world to also pay us if we don't meet the time table?

Not to mention, the other countries about whom POTUS is complaining are not exactly First World WRT their nationwide access to the latest technology. Sure, India and China have pockets of modern living, but the majority of their citizens across their territories do not have ready access to this. Therefore, it's going to take them a bit longer to work to catch up even to our starting point. No, they can't easily cut their carbon emissions the same percentage per year that we can, but they can start the programs to get new technologies slowly dispersed across their countries (how many time zones does China span again?)

They aren't starting from the same level as we are, so we can't expect the same progress. OTOH, isn't the US the consumer of a significant cut of the world's energy? I think that gives us a significant responsibility also to set the example of cutting down the dirty energy we employ. IMHO.

Of course the agreement isn't equal across the board. That's because none of the signatory countries are equal to any other in their starting point, usage, technology, requirements, etc.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[wmw999 2,121]

The "level playing field" between US and, say, India, is kind of like the "level playing field" in 1965 after passage of the Voting Rights Act. The score was something like 368-2, and the people in the lead think that's the way it should be.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Phil1111 910]

http://nypost.com/2017/06/01/german-tabloids-front-page-message-to-trump-f-k-you/

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Seen on FB:

Maybe if we called it "unborn baby earth" instead of "Mother earth" the republicans would give a shit.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ryoder 1,384]

John Oliver last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5scez5dqtAc

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

Trump showed leadership.

I am just wondering why his leadership needs him to be wrong so much during his speech?

Does he make up his lies to support his position. Or does he use lies to form his position?

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

Trump showed leadership.

I am just wondering why his leadership needs him to be wrong so much during his speech?

Does he make up his lies to support his position. Or does he use lies to form his position?

What lies?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

Quote

. Sure, India and China have pockets of modern living, but the majority of their citizens across their territories do not have ready access to this. Therefore, it's going to take them a bit longer to work to catch up even to our starting point.

Agreed. In the US, we decide things like whether to get solar or just buy power. In India, more often people are deciding whether to use oil for heat or freeze. We are rich enough to afford to do the right thing - other countries don't always have that luxury.

To your other point, we can do a lot to help countries like India start out on lower-carbon trajectories. Look at the burgeoning solar industry in Africa. There are now millions of people who are using solar not for rich-American reasons (i.e. save the environment) but because it's the cheapest way to get a little power to charge their phones, run their lights at night and keep their businesses open. Imagine if we help that grow from a panel and a battery to microgrids and finally independent DC grids that are operated by villages, rather than the usual buildout of power lines and diesel generators.

[billvon 2,396]

>What lies?

From a few days back:

"I will not be back to this thread. The whining hypocrisy is so thick one could walk across water on it."

Indeed.

[yoink 321]

rushmc

***

Quote

Trump showed leadership.

I am just wondering why his leadership needs him to be wrong so much during his speech?

Does he make up his lies to support his position. Or does he use lies to form his position?

What lies?

There are a bunch you could Google. I don't have a lot of time so I'll just give you this two-for-one:

'The Green [Climate] Fund would obligate the United States to commiting potentially 10s of billions of dollars..'

Obligate? That's a lie. There's no obligation at all in the Paris Accords. It's all entirely voluntary with no penalties for non-compliance.
10's of billions? Nope. That's a lie too... The US gave themselves a target of $3bn. $3bn is not ''10s of billions'.

So there are two in just a single sentence of his.

[yoink 321]

rushmc

***

Quote

Trump showed leadership.

I am just wondering why his leadership needs him to be wrong so much during his speech?

Does he make up his lies to support his position. Or does he use lies to form his position?

What lies?


Here you go - I've even been generous and called them 'factual errors' rather than 'lies'.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=factual+errors+in+Trump%27s+withdrawal+from+Paris+accords+speech

[SkyDekker 1,122]

rushmc

***

Quote

Trump showed leadership.

I am just wondering why his leadership needs him to be wrong so much during his speech?

Does he make up his lies to support his position. Or does he use lies to form his position?

What lies?

Just google it. There are a bunch of them.

[billvon 2,396]

SkyDekker

***
What lies?

Just google it. There are a bunch of them.
The administration prefers the term "alternative facts."

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

***

Quote

Trump showed leadership.

I am just wondering why his leadership needs him to be wrong so much during his speech?

Does he make up his lies to support his position. Or does he use lies to form his position?

What lies?

The good news is that you can't reduce your credibility any further.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi John,

Quote

The good news is that you can't reduce your credibility any further.

If only that was true.

Jerry Baumchen

[TriGirl 268]

billvon

To your other point, we can do a lot to help countries like India start out on lower-carbon trajectories. Look at the burgeoning solar industry in Africa. There are now millions of people who are using solar not for rich-American reasons (i.e. save the environment) but because it's the cheapest way to get a little power to charge their phones, run their lights at night and keep their businesses open. Imagine if we help that grow from a panel and a battery to microgrids and finally independent DC grids that are operated by villages, rather than the usual buildout of power lines and diesel generators.

We made a mistake in Iraq trying to "keep lights on" by installing small solar panels on street lights. Those were either stolen, or couldn't be kept clean (sand storms) and therefore didn't work well, or were destroyed by the elements. The logic was that they could continue to consolidate electricity to the buildings that really needed it (hospitals, schools, municipal buildings), but still have lights on for safety. We should have looked at it from the other direction. We had renewable energy kits that we sent out to the forward operating bases, to reduce the requirement to have fuel trucks out on all the highways. We should have used some of those types of kits on the roofs of the main buildings that needed constant power. Easier to secure/guard, centralized cells to facilitate cleaning and maintenance, etc. Then they would have had more electricity left over to disseminate to the populace. And if someone attacked one of these buildings or succeeded in sabotaging or stealing the kits? Pretty easy to show how that behavior hurts the citizens, as their reliable electricity that was running all day now is back down to 2 hrs/day because some jackass crippled the solar generator atop the hospital.

I also had an idea in graduate school regarding Iran. Iran claims that they need to develop nuclear technology for civil use, so they can sell more of their fossil fuels abroad in order to support their economy. Why don't they instead become the regional dominant source for energy by focusing development and engineering on improved renewable energy collection? Tesla wouldn't have had to develop the solar roof shingle/tile if Iranian R&D had done it 10 years ago. They could have perfected the solar farm and the wind farm, and may have found a way to store that energy safely by now. Selling the batteries, exporting the energy they generate to neighbors, and selling the more efficient panels for home use. Excellent diversification of their national assets. Too bad they wanted to cling to their insistence on nuclear for domestic use.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[Phil1111 910]

Hawaii law aligns state with Paris climate pact

A new law in Hawaii formally aligns the state with the greenhouse gas reduction goals of the Paris climate change agreement.

Gov. David Ige (D) signed the law in a Tuesday ceremony, saying Hawaii is the first state to put its commitments to Paris into legislation and pass it.

“Hawai‘i is committed to environmental stewardship, and we look forward to working with other states to fight global climate change. Together, we can directly contribute to the global agenda of achieving a more resilient and sustainable island Earth,” Ige said in a statement.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/336742-hawaii-law-aligns-state-with-paris-climate-pact

[billvon 2,396]

Trump's latest achievement:
========================
Generals Warn That U.S. Security Is at Stake In Race for New Energy Superiority

As renewable technologies redraw fossil fuel trade flows, Trump may be letting prosperity and geopolitical advantage slip by.
by Eric Roston
Bloomberg
June 7, 2017

Failure to adopt new energy technologies will hurt America’s chances to help slow climate change. It may also jeopardize U.S. global power and security.

“If we don’t want to necessarily repeat a lot of the tough lessons of the last 40 to 50 years,” said retired Marine Corps Lieutenant General Richard Zilmer. “Better to plan now and get ahead of that—and control the process—than react to it.”

The quest for cleaner and more efficient energy systems is already forging new trade ties and, consequently, political relationships, according to a report by Zilmer and 14 other former high-ranking military officials. Ultimately, those ties will bring “dramatic changes in global spheres of influence,” they wrote. China and European Union members are steering their economies into “the vanguard of manufacturing” and commerce, with the U.S. showing little competitive vision.

“Ceding U.S. leadership here has inherent national security risk,” the authors, part of the CNA Military Advisory Board, warn, “including loss of global influence and diplomatic leverage, as well as forgone economic opportunities.”

Dismissing multiple decades of research into manmade climate change has been a common theme among Republicans who control Congress and now the White House. Dismissing market forces that push nations and industries to clean up while becoming more energy efficient, however, is another thing. The CNA report doesn’t mention “climate change” or “global warming,” but it makes clear that ignoring these market signals carries ominous implications for U.S. economic and national security.

The report, called Advanced Energy and U.S. National Security , is the seventh analysis put out in 10 years by the nonprofit research group’s advisory board. Initiated in 2015, the study was led by 14 U.S. generals and admirals and a retired British Royal Navy rear admiral.

By “advanced energy,” the authors mean technologies that make energy more accessible, cleaner, and safer—namely renewables, batteries, nuclear, hydropower, and efficiency. Coined in 2011 with the launch of the clean-energy U.S. business network Advanced Energy Economy, the phrase has a euphemistic quality that shields the analysis from sounding like a clean-energy scouting report.

. . . .

What the new CNA study lays bare is that there is a new status quo, in which there are, and will continue to be, winners and losers chosen by markets and amplified by geopolitics. In the new energy revolution, both policy and the absence of policy are akin to “picking winners and losers.” The generals warn that America is setting up on the wrong side of that coin.
========================

[BartsDaddy 4]

Don't worry Moonbeam Brown is signing deals with China to undo Trumps gaff. No way that will bite California in the ass.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[yoink 321]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/07/531882630/hawaii-signs-legislation-to-implement-goals-of-paris-climate-accord-anyway

Hawaii signs legislation to adopt Paris Accord goals despite Trump pulling out of the accords.

While I think the 'fuck-you' is hilarious, I'm a little surprised that a state can do this when it directly contravenes a presidential decision. Grey areas I get, but it's pretty clear the President didn't want the US to have anything to do with the accords...

[DJL 232]

yoink

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/07/531882630/hawaii-signs-legislation-to-implement-goals-of-paris-climate-accord-anyway

Hawaii signs legislation to adopt Paris Accord goals despite Trump pulling out of the accords.

While I think the 'fuck-you' is hilarious, I'm a little surprised that a state can do this when it directly contravenes a presidential decision. Grey areas I get, but it's pretty clear the President didn't want the US to have anything to do with the accords...

All the President can do in a situation like this is say that there won't be Federal requirements to adhere to a standard. States are free to exceed standards in any way they want to. For example there are various building codes, some states defer to those codes, some states supplement them with more strict regulations. Same for car safety and emissions. Manufacturers hate it because it throws their production model off and in some cases prefer a higher standard as long as it's more consistent and puts them on an equal playing field with their competition.

In effect it's not a Presidential mandate to keep standards low but just to not set the bar as high.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[yoink 321]

Makes sense. Great explanation! Thanks!