Utah man initially denied lung transplant over pot use dies

[BIGUN 1,049]

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/04/25/utah-man-initially-denied-lung-transplant-over-pot-use-dies-after-complications-family-says.html

Quite frankly, I'm not sure how I feel about this one and would like your views. On one hand... Is everyone who touched alcohol or THC in the past year off the transplant list and if so; are there really that many people who don't touch whatever magic list there is to be a viable candidate?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DougH 270]

This isn't the first time I heard of this. There was a story on NPR recently on the subject. They talked about a transplant candidate in Maine possibly?

They booted the guy off the list and told him to come back in 3 years, at which point they will probably boot him off again.

If he was consuming a prescribed mountain of oxys he probably wouldn't have been given a second glance.

"as these substances are contraindicated for a transplant"

I think that is a pretty broad standard and leaves way to much opportunity for individual doctors to play god.

Show me medical evidence that a marijuana user is at a statistically significant higher chance of rejection, or future organ damage.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[BIGUN 1,049]

Quote

Show me medical evidence that a marijuana user is at a statistically significant higher chance of rejection, or future organ damage.

And this is where I'm confused. Alcoholics are less likely to stop than cannabis users. On one hand, I get that he took something into his lungs, but it's not like (I hope) he would jeopardize his lungs in the future.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[billvon 2,380]

>On one hand... Is everyone who touched alcohol or THC in the past year off the
>transplant list and if so;

Nope. We had a jumper who got a liver transplant at the DZ. He drank before his liver disease became apparent. He stopped completely before (and after, as far as I know) the transplant.

The problem with transplants is that there aren't nearly enough donors to go around. So it makes sense to go with the lowest risk recipients - because giving that liver to a higher risk recipient means that someone else is going to die.

Unfortunately since there aren't enough liver (or lung) recipients to get statistically meaningful data, they don't have a good database from which to draw conclusions on what makes someone higher risk. So there is some informed guesswork. That will (hopefully) change with time as we collect more data.

[Phil1111 908]

Given the long waiting list. If he lived in Israel his insurer could have sent him overseas bought the organs and had insurance pay for organs, surgery and still save money.


Cost surgery US
https://www.transplantliving.org/before-the-transplant/financing-a-transplant/the-costs/
India
http://www.pulmonaryfibrosis.in/lung-transplants-in-india.html

Cost body parts:
http://gizmodo.com/5904129/heres-how-much-body-parts-cost-on-the-black-market
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/dec/04/health.medicineandhealth

[BIGUN 1,049]

OK. Thanks, Bill.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,049]

As most on here know, when I don't know about something; I become OCD about researching the shit out of it. (Kinda like your giving me direction on climate change years ago and subsequently changing my position. I found this interesting:

Quote

However, the recent study suggests that perhaps cannabis smoking does not compromise the viability of lungs transplanted, should the lung in question meet all of the selection criteria. Interestingly, another recent study found that THC has potential to improve the rate of some types of organ transplants.

SOURCE: http://herb.co/2017/02/06/cannabis-consumers-donate-lungs/

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[normiss 620]

Do tobacco smokers get any screening or disqualifications?

[DJL 232]

BIGUN

Quote

Show me medical evidence that a marijuana user is at a statistically significant higher chance of rejection, or future organ damage.

And this is where I'm confused. Alcoholics are less likely to stop than cannabis users. On one hand, I get that he took something into his lungs, but it's not like (I hope) he would jeopardize his lungs in the future.

Remember that THC showing up in his bloodstream doesn't necessary mean he smoked anything. Edibles are becoming more prevalent among marijuana users.

Regardless, even if he did smoke something, this sounds like hospital or insurance policy and not up to the individual doctor. I'm sure there's more to the story.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[BIGUN 1,049]

normiss

Do tobacco smokers get any screening or disqualifications?

Absolutely.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Quote

Regardless, even if he did smoke something, this sounds like hospital or insurance policy and not up to the individual doctor. I'm sure there's more to the story.

Probably to prevent the following headline:

Junky lives while loving teen dies waiting for transplant.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Bill,

Quote

That will (hopefully) change with time as we collect more data.

That will (hopefully) change as we get more people on the donor lists.

Jerry Baumchen

[wmw999 2,116]

THis is one area that the opioid epidemic is helping . OD's can donate, at least kidneys. The recipient has to agree to an OD kidney, but they get one. For some, it's worth it, and they seem to be working OK so far. My sister-in-law works for a regional transplant service

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Wendy,

Quote

more people on the donor lists

I, admittedly, do not keep up with the laws here in Oregon on donating. I have it designated on my driver's license, have an Advance Directive with my medical care provider & my daughter has Power of Attorney.

About 24 years ago, my biological father died ( my brother & I were raised by our step-father ). My brother & I were his only family/heirs. At the VA hospital they asked me if they could harvest his organs, he was not on any donor list that I knew of.

It is very possible that, here in Oregon, one could be a donor without being on a documented donor list.

IMO that is a good thing.

Jerry Baumchen

[dpreguy 14]

I read the article and fail to see the problem. The kid was a pothead so he gets no transplant. The transplant then goes to someone who is clean. Sounds like the policy of the organ donor program was correctly followed.

His dad says ,"He smoked some over Thanksgiving...". Yeah right. As if his dad knows how much or how often. And, what difference does it make if it was a lot or a trace? That is the policy (and it sounds like a good policy to me) of the transplant program. Some actions have consequences.

[BIGUN 1,049]

He did get a transplant. He contracted pneumonia and had complications resulting in needing a lung transplant. Utah said no. UPenn said yes. Appearance of a disparate decision-making process on organ recipients. But, I found some information on that also:

https://www.verywell.com/organ-transplant-waiting-list-requirements-3156951 (towards the bottom)

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[dpreguy 14]

You are correct. He "initially" was denied. And rightly so.

[billvon 2,380]

Quote

I read the article and fail to see the problem. The kid was a pothead so he gets no transplant. The transplant then goes to someone who is clean.

The problem is - what guidelines do they use?

"No problem. The guy's a drunk. Sure, he's been sober for 20 years, but the transplant goes to someone who isn't a lush."

"No problem. The kid was a skydiver so he gets no transplant. The transplant then goes to someone without a death wish. Why waste the liver?"

"No problem. The first guy was a Muslim so he doesn't get the transplant. The transplant then goes to someone who isn't going to blow up a building."

Some people will take issue with some of those but not others. Which one you take issue with probably depends on (for example) whether or not you are a skydiver. And since it's literally a life or death decision, we should probably be careful (and consistent) with what criteria we use.

[dpreguy 14]

Criteria is clear, concise and stated ahead of time. No dopers.

[billvon 2,380]

dpreguy

Criteria is clear, concise and stated ahead of time. No dopers.

OK.

You do realize this guy got the transplant, right?

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Walt,

Quote

No dopers.

Do you include those who use it legally? Such as medical users; and here in Oregon, recreational users?

Disclaimer: I have never used pot in any form. Although, I have drank more than my share of alcohol before I could legally.

Jerry Baumchen

[DJL 232]

dpreguy

Criteria is clear, concise and stated ahead of time. No dopers.

Are you a time traveler from 1950?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[dpreguy 14]

The policy of the transplant agency:"...Does not transplant organs in patients with active alcohol, tobacco or illicit drug use or dependencies..."
Makes no difference whether the mja use is legal illegal, or medical. Nor should it. The policy, in my opinion, is pretty sound, as they want the transplant to go into a body that has a longer chance for a healthy existence. Their rule. If you don't like these rues/standards buy your own transplant business and abolish them. Just don't ask for taxpayer money to fund your transplant operation.

The kid who was initially rejected had a drug in his system - mja/THC- whatever. Rejection. Whatever caused them to reverse their decision is not covered in the article.

Some fail to realize that actions have consequences. The weak whine that "it is legal" or "it is medical" is of no consequence if have mja in your preemployment drug screen. You won't be hired. If you are already working and fail you will be fired. And, if you have a marijuana conviction you have disclose that in the 8610-2 parachute rigger application. No reason to enter into a rigger training program if you do, as this is a disqualifier. When you pass the Oral and Practical you must sign again, under penalty of perjury that you have no mja convictions. If you do, I am assuming you won't be issued a rigger rating from Oklahoma City/FAA. Social acceptance has no bearing on the transplant criteria, the employment world or the application for a government license to become a rigger. Although I don't have any references, I would assume you can't be a commercial airline pilot and test positive for mja. Is anyone advocating for all of these bars to be lifted? Want to fly in an airliner after observing your pilot smoking mja in the smoking lounge just before he gets into the pic seat? Yur airline pilot is eating a mja candy bar while flying? Want your parachute rigger to do the same before, or as, he packs your reserve? Want dopers to have equal status to get transplants? Want marijuana smokers/consumers to be in the astronaut program? In nuclear submarines? In missile silos? In semi trucks going 75 mph on a two lane road? Flying your twin otter? Your surgeon? The list goes on.
Consume away, legally - illegally - medically, whatever but don't expect the real world to give you an excuse or relieve you of the consequences.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Walt,

Quote

Makes no difference

As DJL posted; you still back in the '50's?

The world has moved on,

Jerry Baumchen

[PhreeZone 14]

FYI you can have convictions for multiple drug offenses and have a long list of DUI arrests and the FAA will issue you a riggers certificate. I know someone that has multiple arrests and had license suspensions for DUI's prior to getting his ticket and the FAA did not seem to have an issue with it.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com