FIASCO

[SkyDekker 1,121]

brenthutch

***Did it occur to you that this fiasco was just another carefully planned distraction?

I am relieved that for now the ACA is safe but not ready to run any victory laps. And lets face it, there is still a lot of work to be done to improve healthcare in this country.

I believe the ACA is in trouble. Two days after the repeal and replace effort failed the news coverage turned back to the problems with O-care. Dems were tripping over themselves to get in front of microphones and say how much they wanted to work with the administration to fix O-care. NPR had a piece on the ACA last night and concluded while the program is not in imminent peril, it has real problems and if the Trump administration does not actively support it it may indeed fail.

Yeah, none of this is news. There was/is pretty much nobody who would argue the ACA is currently perfect.

Maybe a little less purely partisan news sources would help you.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Well, some of the claims for failure are a little bit suspicious.

For example, Aetna pulled out of several markets, claiming that they weren't making money.

Turns out that they were angry that the administration blocked their merger. So they pulled out of exchanges that were profitable, just to make the ACA look bad.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-aetna-obamacare-20170123-story.html

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[brenthutch 383]

SkyDekker

Maybe a little less purely partisan news sources would help you.

Clueless much? NPR is left leaning, are you recommending FOX?

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

>Dems were tripping over themselves to get in front of microphones and say how
>much they wanted to work with the administration to fix O-care.

They've been saying that for six years now. How odd that republicans have just now noticed, and only after the embarrassing failure of Trumpcare.

>NPR had a piece on the ACA last night and concluded while the program is not in
>imminent peril, it has real problems and if the Trump administration does not
>actively support it it may indeed fail.

If the Trump administration starts trying to destroy it, it may indeed fail. So far they show every sign of doing just that, so they can stand back and say "not my fault! It was the democrats!"

They don't need to take active measures. If the Trump administration doesn't take up the Obama administration's defense of the cost sharing measures in O-care, the lower court ruling will remain, starving insurance companies of much needed federal dollars. O-care is firmly back in the Dems lap.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

brenthutch

***

Maybe a little less purely partisan news sources would help you.

Clueless much? NPR is left leaning, are you recommending FOX?

Right, and you are posting this as big news now.

Like I said, this wasn't news to those who didn't stick to partisan news sources up until now. That was the point.

You would have noticed that nobody was pontificating how ACA is perfect etc. Things always tend to have room for improvement. That the best course of action would be to take ACA and improve it.

Republicans (and their news sources as you have so clearly demonstrated) were the only ones claiming it was so bad the only option was to repeal ACA completely and replace it with something else.

If you weren't so clueless, you would have had an opportunity not to stick your foot in your mouth for once.

[billvon 2,396]

>Clueless much?

Last warning.

[brenthutch 383]

I know you guys on the left think it is the job of Republicans to implement the socialist policies passed by the Democrats, AKA "fix Obamacare", but I don't think that dog will hunt this time around. The Rs just need to sit on their hands until the Ds come to the table for repeal and replace.

[gowlerk 1,909]

brenthutch

I know you guys on the left think it is the job of Republicans to implement the socialist policies passed by the Democrats, AKA "fix Obamacare", but I don't think that dog will hunt this time around. The Rs just need to sit on their hands until the Ds come to the table for repeal and replace.

Still living in a dream world? The people will not support a rollback of the social medicine that's been gained. Even if the ultra conservative Rs had not shut down that terrible bill, the moderate ones would have. It had 17% public support. We've been over this before.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,396]

>Still living in a dream world? The people will not support a rollback of the social
>medicine that's been gained.

Right. So Trump's strategy now is to destroy social medicine. He has appointed Tom Price to head the HHS, and Price hates Obamacare. So his strategy will likely be to make detrimental changes to the law (i.e. decrease coverage, increase the ability of healthcare insurers to drop people) and then say "See? It's Obamacare that's so bad! We had nothing to do with it!"

In a better world people would realize they were being misled, of course.

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

In a better world people would realize they were being misled, of course.

I could not agree more.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EXq1G_GuG8Q&autoplay=1

[normiss 622]

I would expect that would make you wonder about how bills get changed between proposal, funding, and approval.
I don't actually expect that from you, but it would make sense to take that into consideration.

[billvon 2,396]

>SEVEN YEARS they've been reflexively opposing the ACA but have zip with which to replace it.

Latest poll from PPP:

Obamacare 52% approve 37% disapprove
Fix it or replace it? 62% fix it 32% replace it

I have a feeling they don't really give a shit about what the American people want (after all, more of them voted for Clinton than Trump) but who knows? Stranger things have happened.

[brenthutch 383]

With ZERO Republican amendments, O-care is owned by the Ds, lock, stock and barrel.

[normiss 622]

Wow.

Seems the disinformation efforts are successful.

[gowlerk 1,909]

Quote

So Trump's strategy now is to destroy social medicine.

There really is no good reason to believe that is Trump's goal. It is Paul Ryan's goal, but Ryan can not get it done. Trump is a populist, not a conservative. He is already taking about cutting a deal with Ds on healthcare down the road. Medicaid is poised to expand in states that can no long resist taking the federal dollars.

Trump's goal is to be the Greatest President Ever. He won't get there by taking basic health care away from the citizens, and he knows it.

Socialized medicine is just going to become accepted in America. Or at least most of America. I'm sure you'll still be railing against it even as you take your last breaths in a subsidized hospital one day. But it won't matter. Your outdated dead ender ideas have no place in the future of your nation.


Edit, Sorry Bill. I assumed this was posted by brenthutch! He is the deadender I was referring to.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[brenthutch 383]

Good thing you made that clarification. Only folks on the right hand side of the political spectrum can be called names in this forum.

[gowlerk 1,909]

brenthutch

Good thing you made that clarification. Only folks on the right hand side of the political spectrum can be called names in this forum.

As an avowed Alarmist I disagree.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 622]

Having been called both extreme political opposites in this forum, I'm just confused.

Although some jebus dudes sends me insane, angry, PM's full of vile names.
It's actually pretty entertaining. Very christian of them.

[billvon 2,396]

Trump explains that he didn't really want to vote on the healthcare proposal anyway, and it wasn't a loss for him:

===========
"You know that we didn’t take a vote. I didn’t want to take a vote. It was my idea. I said why should I take a vote.

I don’t lose. I don’t like to lose. But that wasn’t a definitive [loss]. They are negotiating as we speak. I don’t know if you know. They are negotiating right now. There was no reason to take a vote."
===========

(from an interview in Financial Times)

[kallend 1,623]

And now the zombified version of Trumpcare goes to the grave:

www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/us/politics/health-care-house-republicans.html?_r=0

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

But don't forget the real tragedy here - this time around, republicans cannot figure out which democrats to blame.
==========================
As Latest Health Plan Dies, Republicans Can’t Agree on a Culprit

By JENNIFER STEINHAUER and ROBERT PEAR
APRIL 5, 2017
NYT

WASHINGTON — The new bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act is dead, killed off by House Republicans who never actually read the legislation — because in fact, it never actually existed.

Conservative groups moved quickly on Wednesday to shift the blame for the failure of a seven-year promise to repeal the law onto some not-as-conservative Republicans, after a small but powerful group of hard-line House conservatives failed again to come to a meeting of the minds with the Trump administration over how best to repeal and replace President Barack Obama’s signature achievement.

“The left wing among House Republicans doesn’t want to compromise or keep their pledge to voters to repeal Obamacare,” David McIntosh, the president of the Club for Growth, a conservative free-market advocacy group, said in a statement. “They’ve rejected deals that would give Americans more choices for cheaper health insurance, and now they won’t even allow states the chance to scale back Obamacare’s costliest regulations.”

The accusation — echoed by other conservatives — represents a remarkable turnaround in the blame game. The group and its supporters have opposed much of the major legislation considered by Congress in recent years.

Last month, a House Republican bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act failed to get enough support to bring it to a vote. About 30 of the most conservative members of the House rejected the bill as preserving too much of the existing law, but as they pressed to dismantle ever more provisions, they pushed away more moderate House Republicans who were leery of leaving 24 million more Americans without health insurance.
======================
Guess they will have to go back to trying to destroy it through mismanagement.

[billvon 2,396]

So for seven years now republicans have been trying to repeal the ACA. "Why not fix it?" democrats asked. "We'd be happy to work with you to improve it."

"Not a chance!" said Republicans. "It is a job-killing disaster and it has to go! NO COMPROMISE!"

So they tried to repeal it - what? - fifty times? - and failed each time. They blamed Obama and the democrats for their failure.

Finally they had a majority in the House, Senate and they had the presidency. And they . . . failed again. Turns out they actually didn't have a rational plan, just a few sound bites and a Powerpoint slide. Since then they've been scrambling to come up with a real healthcare plan; they seem to be shocked that fixing healthcare might be harder than coming up with a four word sound bite.

So some Republicans are - finally - after seven years, starting to take a serious look at what to do. And what do you know?
==================
Reversal: Some Republicans now defending parts of ObamaCare
By Peter Sullivan
The Hill

04/09/17

The House’s debate over repealing ObamaCare has had an unintended effect: Republicans are now defending key elements of President Obama’s health law.

Many House Republicans are now defending ObamaCare’s protections for people with pre-existing conditions, in the face of an effort by the conservative House Freedom Caucus to repeal them.

Some Republican lawmakers are also speaking out in favor of ObamaCare’s expansion of Medicaid and its mandates that insurance plans cover services such as mental health and prescription drugs.

Rep. Patrick McHenry (R-N.C.), the GOP’s chief deputy whip, said Wednesday that the Freedom Caucus's calls for states to be able to apply for waivers to repeal pre-existing condition protections are “a bridge too far for our members.”

Those ObamaCare protections include what is known as community rating, which prevents insurers from charging higher premiums to people with pre-existing conditions, and guaranteed issue, which prevents insurers from outright denying coverage to them.

McHenry spoke in personal terms about the importance of keeping in place those Affordable Care Act (ACA) provisions, contained in Title I of the law.

“If you look at the key provisions of Title I, it affects a cross section of our conference based off of their experience and the stories they know from their constituents and their understanding of policy,” McHenry said.

“My family history is really bad, and so my understanding of the impact of insurance regs are real, and I believe I'm a conservative, so I look at this, understand the impact of regulation, but also the impact of really bad practices in the insurance marketplace prior to the ACA passing,” he continued. “There are a lot of provisions that I've campaigned on for four election cycles that are part of the law now that I want to preserve.”

. . .

Now, though, many House Republicans are defending the ObamaCare protections.

For example, in addition to McHenry’s comments, Rep. Tom Reed (R-N.Y.) this week called community rating a “very significant reform” made by ObamaCare.
. . .

[Heritage Action's] CEO, Michael Needham, held a press call to blame moderate House Republicans in the Tuesday Group for blocking a deal.

“I think the Tuesday Group clearly wants to keep ObamaCare in place,” Needham said.

It’s not just the pre-existing condition protections that GOP lawmakers are defending.

Many Republicans from states that accepted ObamaCare’s expansion of Medicaid are supporting keeping it.

A group of Republican senators, including Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.), the chairman of Senate Republicans’ campaign arm, last month objected to a draft of the House GOP repeal bill because it did not “provide stability and certainty for individuals and families in Medicaid expansion programs or the necessary flexibility for states.”
=============

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi Bill,

Quote

Some Republicans now defending parts of ObamaCare

Congress has been a s***-show for longer than I can remember.

If this stuff was not so serious for so many Americans, it would be laughable.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,396]

>Congress has been a s***-show for longer than I can remember.

Yep.

Imagine where we would be today if the GOP started working on this six months ago:

===================================
President Floats Obamacare Fixes and Offers to Let GOP Rename It

by Jon Schuppe
CNBC Oct 20 2016

President Obama on Thursday proposed a new round of tax credits and a government-run insurance plan for his healthcare reform program, fixes he said would correct jumps in some insurance premiums and the lackluster recruitment of young, healthy people.

Obama delivered his message in Florida, singling out Gov. Rick Scott for his refusal to participate in Obamacare's offer to expand Medicaid coverage for poor people. If he and the governors of 18 other states took part, four million more people would be able to afford insurance, Obama said.

Those corrections, he told an audience at Miami Dade College, would bring Obamacare much closer to reducing the number of uninsured Americans — a figure that currently stands at about 29 million people.

He said he welcomed additional ideas from his Republican opponents in Congress, even if they wanted to rechristen it.

"They can even change the name of the law to Reagancare," Obama said, drawing laughs from the crowd.

"Or they can call it Paul Ryancare," Obama added, referring to the speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives. "I don't care — about credit. I just want it to work."

As a prelude to his proposed solutions, Obama spent half of his 40-minute speech touting the Affordable Care Act, which many Republicans, including presidential candidate Donald Trump, have vowed to repeal. He pointed out that about 20 million more Americans have signed up for insurance since the program began offering state-based marketplaces and expanded Medicaid four years ago, bringing the uninsured rate to its lowest number in decades.
=========================================

[billvon 2,396]

>And now the zombified version of Trumpcare goes to the grave.

But Trumpcare 3.0 is going to be GREAT! The BEST! And it will be REAL SOON NOW! Trump today:

"This is a great bill, this is a great plan. And this will be great healthcare. It is evolving. . . .The plan gets better and better and better and it’s gotten really, really good. And a lot of people are liking it a lot. We have a good chance of getting it soon."