CBO: TrumpCare, 24 million lose health care

[dorkitup 1]

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52486
Remember when Trump said everyone will be taken care of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6inQmf96SYQ
Hahahahaha! Can't wait for all those republicans who railed on Obama for basically saying the same thing. What??? Crickets.....

On the plus side, it will reduce the deficit by $337 billion over 10 years, which is basically a drop in the bucket. I can't believe people think republicans are fiscally conservative. Not since well before Reagan my friend. I sure wish someone would be. I would vote for them in a heartbeat. But I haven't seen any run in my district for a long, long time. So might as well vote on social issues. At least that way as the ship sinks, people think they're all equal.

Another plus of TrumpCare is for people who are rich as shit: You're getting a tax break! Wooooo! $197,000 for the top 0.1% according to John Oilver (via CNN). Did Trump just give himself a tax break? You decide! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifi9M7DRazI&t=0s
Just what those billionaires needed to keep themselves afloat. Whew! That was a close one!

So SICK of both parties lying straight to the face of the American people. I used to have some respect for Paul Ryan. Now he's become apPAULling. Sorry that people fall for this every election... Even more sorry for people who will lose health coverage.

What a joke. Luckily for me, I wasn't born into poverty.

[Phil1111 910]

The Wall Street Journal reported today that “a 62-year-old currently earning about $18,000 a year could pay nearly $20,000 annually to get health-insurance coverage under the House GOP plan — compared with about $760 a year that person would owe toward premiums under the ACA.”...

Promising people the moon when it comes to health care is, to put it mildly, stupid. The GOP knows this, given the fact that it reaped substantial political rewards from attacking Democrats on their unmet health care promises. But Republican leaders now find themselves caught between their campaign pledges to eliminate the Affordable Care Act, the expectation to maintain the ACA’s insurance coverage gains, and the difficulty of crafting legislation that can actually pass Congress.

The Congressional Budget Office report makes clear how aggressively mendacious the Republicans’ health care strategy is. It also showed that the American Health Care Act is an absurd and dreadful piece of legislation that cannot, by any reasonable standard, be called a “replacement” for the Affordable Care Act.
http://www.salon.com/2017/03/13/cbo-blows-up-trumpcare-gops-health-care-plan-will-leave-tens-of-millions-uninsured/

[BartsDaddy 4]

Well my parents retired and signed up for medical like they have to. Before the ACA. They have to pay 270 some dollars each per month out of their social securities payment. People doing that now are paying 1200 to 1700. So much for ACA.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[tkhayes 126]

Quote

I can't believe people think republicans are fiscally conservative.

Fiscally conservative can be seen a couple ways. slashing spending is one of them

Paying for the shit that you spend is also another way to be fiscally conservative.

'reducing' the deficit' can be done by raising taxes and cutting spending. Then everyone shares in the pain of electing the assholes that spend the money recklessly.

I still share all the frustrations with it all, but I am more of the camp that yes, it actually costs money to run the country. big deal. jack up the taxes, deliver the services, show people where their money is actually going, and then we will get real spending reform when people see what things really cost.

How about a monthly tax bill showing line items of where the dollars go. We would see real change.

[wmw999 2,121]

Do they make $18,000 a year? Do they live in a state where Medicaid expansion took place? And will they pay even more now (of course with medical care costs in general going up, my insurance goes up every year too; so does homeowner's in Texas).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,623]

BartsDaddy

Well my parents retired and signed up for medical like they have to. Before the ACA. They have to pay 270 some dollars each per month out of their social securities payment. People doing that now are paying 1200 to 1700. So much for ACA.

Looks like the GOP plan will cost them even more.

According to the CBO: On premiums alone, prices would rise by more than 20 percent for the oldest group of customers. By 2026, the budget office projected, “premiums in the nongroup market would be 20 percent to 25 percent lower for a 21-year-old and 8 percent to 10 percent lower for a 40-year-old — but 20 percent to 25 percent higher for a 64-year-old.”

But the change in tax credits matters more. The combined difference in how much extra the older customer would have to pay for health insurance is enormous. The C.B.O. estimates that the price an average 64-year-old earning $26,500 would need to pay after using a subsidy would increase from $1,700 under Obamacare to $14,600 under the Republican plan.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

tkhayes

show people where their money is actually going, and then we will get real spending reform when people see what things really cost.

How about a monthly tax bill showing line items of where the dollars go. We would see real change.

^^^^^

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

The combined difference in how much extra the older customer would have to pay for health insurance is enormous. The C.B.O. estimates that the price an average 64-year-old earning $26,500 would need to pay after using a subsidy would increase from $1,700 under Obamacare to $14,600 under the Republican plan.

According to some Republicans, it all comes down to priorities. If that 64-year-old chooses food and shelter over health insurance, that just means that "morally, spiritually, socially, they just don't want health care".

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[SkyDekker 1,121]

rehmwa

***show people where their money is actually going, and then we will get real spending reform when people see what things really cost.

How about a monthly tax bill showing line items of where the dollars go. We would see real change.

^^^^^
Aren't budgets and spending mostly public in the US?

Not sure how you can't already see where your tax dollars are going and what they are getting spent on that would get somehow magically highlighted in a one-pager?

Or did you want a 600 page monthly tax bill?

[airdvr 197]

The CBO missed badly on Obamacare. They said in 2017 23 million would be insured through the exchanges. It's just over 9 million today. Close enough for government work.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[BartsDaddy 4]

wmw999

Do they make $18,000 a year? Do they live in a state where Medicaid expansion took place? And will they pay even more now (of course with medical care costs in general going up, my insurance goes up every year too; so does homeowner's in Texas).

Wendy P.

I am not sure as to what they actualy make, but they make that much at least.

They live in California, expansion did take place.

And no there insurance is not going up. That is the thing that I think is messed up about it. I am not advocating for there insurance to go up, But at the same time it is not fair for someone now signing up for the same insurance pays 4 times as much.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[Phil1111 910]

tkhayes

Quote

I can't believe people think republicans are fiscally conservative.

Fiscally conservative can be seen a couple ways.

Paying for the shit that you spend is also another way to be fiscally conservative.

'reducing' the deficit' can be done by raising taxes and cutting spending. Then everyone shares in the pain of electing the assholes that spend the money recklessly.

I still share all the frustrations with it all, but I am more of the camp that yes, it actually costs money to run the country. big deal. jack up the taxes, deliver the services, show people where their money is actually going, and then we will get real spending reform when people see what things really cost.

How about a monthly tax bill showing line items of where the dollars go. We would see real change.

Agree, but add no bs accounting. The CBO growth and actual GDP numbers are used. Not the ones dreamed up by politician-liars-dreamers. The easiest budget to pass is one that fabricates growth numbers. Then uses high numbers to kick tough decisions down the road.

[billvon 2,396]

>But at the same time it is not fair for someone now signing up for the same
>insurance pays 4 times as much.

And soon they will be paying ~26 times as much.

[kallend 1,623]

airdvr

The CBO missed badly on Obamacare. They said in 2017 23 million would be insured through the exchanges. It's just over 9 million today. Close enough for government work.

Spin it how you like. FACT is that the percentage of insured Americans is now the highest it has ever been, thanks to ACA. And it would be even higher if not for GOP obstructionism just for the sake of thwarting Obama.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[yoink 321]

BartsDaddy

But at the same time it is not fair for someone now signing up for the same insurance pays 4 times as much.

It's also not fair that their vote for president of the country counts for 1/4 of that of some other Americans.

'MURICA!

[sonnyblu 0]

GeorgiaDon

According to some Republicans, it all comes down to priorities. If that 64-year-old chooses food and shelter over health insurance, that just means that "morally, spiritually, socially, they just don't want health care".

I don't see where he said anything about prioritizing healthcare over food and shelter, but nevertheless, his comments were incredibly dumb, and his twisting of scripture to somehow validate his baseless argument is just sickening.

He said those on medicaid probably do the least in terms of preventative medicine, but doesn't provide anything to back up his claim. Even if it were true, it doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything. So what, just because they aren't maximizing the benefits to the fullest, we should just take them away altogether?

I'm having a hard time understanding the relevance of his comments aside from getting attention.



On another note, Rep. Jason Chaffetz has been getting a lot of negative press for his comments as well:

Quote

"maybe rather than getting that new iPhone that they just love and they want to go spend hundreds of dollars on that, maybe they should invest in their own health care.”

Obama said something similar:

“ if you looked at that person’s budget and you looked at their cable bill, their telephone … cell phone bill, other things that they’re spending on, it may turn out that they just haven’t prioritized health care because right now everybody is healthy, nobody actually wants to spend money on health insurance until they get sick."

[NewGuy2005 51]

kallend

***The CBO missed badly on Obamacare. They said in 2017 23 million would be insured through the exchanges. It's just over 9 million today. Close enough for government work.

Spin it how you like. FACT is that the percentage of insured Americans is now the highest it has ever been, thanks to ACA. And it would be even higher if not for GOP obstructionism just for the sake of thwarting Obama.

Your statement should read: FACT is that the percentage of insured Americans is now the highest it has ever been, thanks to other people paying for it.

I'm not saying that is all bad. We need to pay for some people that can't afford it. The question is how many and which ones do we pay for?

All of these stats about whether Obamacare or Trumpcare covers more is missing the fundamental question of who should pay for health insurance for the people that don't currently have it.

[billvon 2,396]

Trump's promises:

Jan 2017 - “We’re going to have insurance for everybody…. Everybody’s going to be taken care of. There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” (Reality - 24 million will lose coverage)

May 2015 - “I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid.” (Reality - he's cutting it)

March 2017 - "Nobody will be worse off financially in the process that we’re going through.” (Reality - many seniors will not be able to afford Trump's higher premiums)

Oct 2016 - "We have to get rid of the artificial lines around the states.” (Reality - he's keeping them)

Sept 2015 - “I am going to take care of everybody … Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.” (Reality - 24 million will lose coverage)

[normiss 622]

So you don't understand how insurance works then.

[billvon 2,396]

>FACT is that the percentage of insured Americans is now the highest it has ever
>been, thanks to other people paying for it.

Right. That's what insurance is.

[sonnyblu 0]

NewGuy2005

All of these stats about whether Obamacare or Trumpcare covers more is missing the fundamental question of who should pay for health insurance for the people that don't currently have it.

It's all under control. During his cabinet meeting, Trump said that “We're negotiating with everybody. It's a big fat beautiful negotiation and hopefully we'll come up with something that's going to be really terrific.”

Edited to add exact quote, lol.

[NewGuy2005 51]

normiss

So you don't understand how insurance works then.

Of course I do and I see where you are headed. Insurance is the sharing of costs across the group that is insured. That's not the same as having someone else pay for your insurance.

At the same time, I am not saying there is not a substantial part of the population that should have their health insurance paid for.

[kallend 1,623]

sonnyblu

***All of these stats about whether Obamacare or Trumpcare covers more is missing the fundamental question of who should pay for health insurance for the people that don't currently have it.

It's all under control. During his cabinet meeting, Trump said that “We're negotiating with everybody. It's a big fat beautiful negotiation and hopefully we'll come up with something that's going to be really terrific.”

Edited to add exact quote, lol.

And nobody knew that healthcare could be so complicated.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

>Of course I do and I see where you are headed. Insurance is the sharing of costs
>across the group that is insured. That's not the same as having someone else pay
>for your insurance.

We all pay for each other's insurance. My medical bills are much lower than the premium paid to my health insurance provider. That means I am paying for someone else's insurance. If I ever need a lot of care, then other people will be paying for my insurance.

The problem is that no one wants to pay any significant amount for their insurance. So providers have been making smaller and smaller groups, so they can offer healthy, nonsmoking 18-25 year olds cheaper insurance. There's no free lunch, of course, so that means other people's insurance rates have to go up. And the end result of that is that the people who really need insurance - say, the 60 year olds who have retired - can't afford it.

So you have a few choices:

1) Expand the groups. When the same coverage covers 60 year olds and 20 year olds, the average cost goes down - because you have a single group (simpler to administer) and you are averaging costs over a much larger pool. 20 year olds don't like this of course, but if the group remains as they age, they benefit from this later.

2) Have someone else pay, and collect the money via taxes. That's what single payer is. (On a much smaller scale the ACA implemented this as well - a fine placed on people with no insurance that effectively provided insurance for low income people.)

3) Do nothing; let insurance companies do whatever they like. This leads to tens of millions who cannot afford insurance.

[rushmc 18]

airdvr

The CBO missed badly on Obamacare. They said in 2017 23 million would be insured through the exchanges. It's just over 9 million today. Close enough for government work.

there is private scoring out there that looks much different than this highly subjective and political doc put out by this CBO

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln