Russiagate

[headoverheels 291]

JerryBaumchen

PS) I did not say 'only.'

Hmm, check your post # 1499

[yoink 321]

Phil1111

Thats not to say that the intelligence community dosn't have a good grasp on whats going on. The Senate Intelligence committee needs to get past the presidential aspects of the election. Needs to direct responses targeting Putin and his inner circle.

But they would have to be directed to do that (even if it's clandestinely) by the president, and this egomanaical preschooler isn't about to do that because it would be a tacit admission that he isn't 'the best' (TM) and 'favorite not-Hillary' president ever.


The longer this shit goes on and the more we see of it, the more I'm convinced that we're just fucked until the next election.
There will always be a willing fall-guy who volunteers to take a bullet for whatever idiocy of the moment the president begins, and I'm still not convinced that a republican government would actually impeach Trump even if there was incontrovertible proof of the most heinous crimes.

I suspect they'll all rally around the shitshow until 2020 when hopefully they desert him en mass and get behind either Romney or Comey.

[BartsDaddy 4]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Barts,

Quote

I'm curious why do you think that should be the only way to vote?

See Post #1495.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I did not say 'only.'

You did say "only" go back and look. While I agree voting machines should not be electronic. And where I am at it is still pen and paper. But I can see where mail only could be used for voter fraud easily also.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi hoh,

Quote

your post # 1499

I do believe that is a mea culpa.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Barts,

Quote

But I can see where mail only could be used for voter fraud easily also.

I do not think we can ever have a perfect system. I wish we could.

When I was young, our house was a voting location. I had the opportunity to sit in on the vote counting many times. You would not believe the arguments that when about whether this ballot or that was valid or not.

Jerry Baumchen

[BartsDaddy 4]

Jerry
I agree there will never be a completely fraud proof election process. The idealist in me wishes we could but also knows it's not possible.
And unfortunately I would believe the arguements you witnessed. Politics has all ways been full of petty agreements turned into major points.
My question though was "why only mail in ballots?". Where I live if you go to the polls there is paper ballots you mark with a pen. they have them for a recount.
You can call me weird old fashioned or whatever but I like going to the polls and casting my vote, and I have lost a few important pieces of mail in the system before. If it was my ballot I would never even know it was lost. Voting in person I know it is deliverd.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[AlanS 1]

DJL

We need to change to a "Ranked Choice" primary election. This election is a Prime example of how someone with less than 30% of the support within their own party became President of the United States.

http://www.fairvote.org/rcv

Ranked Choice" primary election.

I agree with this completely. For the presidential primary I would also prefer it be national and done in several rounds. First stage eliminate the bottom half with ranked voting, then proceed from there.

I don't think you could design a worse presidential primary process that we have currently. Each state taking only one swipe at voting with the early states (demographically un-representative) having the most influence over the result. And "super delegates" ... WTF?

[AlanS 1]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Alan,

Quote

Russian interference

We live in world where everyone wants everything right now.

The Russkies were able to interfere because many elections ( at every level ) are done via computer. Heaven for the hackers.

Here in Oregon, all elections are by paper ballot that you mail in. No going to a polling location, there are none.

While the ballots here are counted via electronics, we do have the paper ballots that can be recounted manually if necessary.

If you want to get rid of the Russkies medling, get rid of the computer voting.

Is it really that hard to get a pen out & check a box or two?

Jerry Baumchen

I think the problem goes deeper than just not voting via computers and only worrying about the count being wrong.

If the goal is to create chaos, all they need to do it corrupt the voter registration rolls and flood the system with fake information just before election day to make completing a count impossible.

Worse than having the wrong person elected, would be to have no person elected because the system was flooded with fake information.

Russia for example compromised the voter registration rolls in Oregon, and by some estimates has the names, addresses and social security numbers of 15 million voters. What could they do with that information in the next election cycle?

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/13/15791744/russia-election-39-states-hack-putin-trump-sessions

Paper ballots are good, but mail-in might be a problem. What if 15 million mail-in ballots show up with stamps from out of state, but valid names and addresses? It might be better to revert back to voting in person at neighborhood locations.

Here is a list of states know to be targeted.

Quote

Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin, Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas and Washington

Another part of this problem is our voter registration rolls are done at the county level, and many county governments don't have people knowledgeable in cyber security. But at the same time, voter registration is done online and vulnerable to hacking and thus compromising the underlying database.

[AlanS 1]

This from Bloomberg....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-13/russian-breach-of-39-states-threatens-future-u-s-elections

In summary, they have information on about 15 million voters and three years to think about what to do with it before the next election.

Quote

One of the mysteries about the 2016 presidential election is why Russian intelligence, after gaining access to state and local systems, didn’t try to disrupt the vote. One possibility is that the American warning was effective. Another former senior U.S. official, who asked for anonymity to discuss the classified U.S. probe into pre-election hacking, said a more likely explanation is that several months of hacking failed to give the attackers the access they needed to master America’s disparate voting systems spread across more than 7,000 local jurisdictions.

Such operations need not change votes to be effective. In fact, the Obama administration believed that the Russians were possibly preparing to delete voter registration information or slow vote tallying in order to undermine confidence in the election. That effort went far beyond the carefully timed release of private communications by individuals and parties.

One former senior U.S. official expressed concern that the Russians now have three years to build on their knowledge of U.S. voting systems before the next presidential election, and there is every reason to believe they will use what they have learned in future attacks.

[Phil1111 908]

yoink

***

Thats not to say that the intelligence community dosn't have a good grasp on whats going on. The Senate Intelligence committee needs to get past the presidential aspects of the election. Needs to direct responses targeting Putin and his inner circle.

But they would have to be directed to do that (even if it's clandestinely) by the president, and this egomanaical preschooler isn't about to do that because it would be a tacit admission that he isn't 'the best' (TM) and 'favorite not-Hillary' president ever.


The longer this shit goes on and the more we see of it, the more I'm convinced that we're just fucked until the next election.
There will always be a willing fall-guy who volunteers to take a bullet for whatever idiocy of the moment the president begins, and I'm still not convinced that a republican government would actually impeach Trump even if there was incontrovertible proof of the most heinous crimes.

I suspect they'll all rally around the shitshow until 2020 when hopefully they desert him en mass and get behind either Romney or Comey.

The current Russia sanctions bill was brought ahead by congress. After a substantial delay trump signed it.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/02/politics/donald-trump-russia-sanctions-bill/index.html

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Barts,

Quote

I agree there . . .

I really do not have any problem with you or anyone going into the polling booth and marking a paper ballot.

We used to have the 'punch out the chad' system here & found it causes problems; like it did in Florida back in 2000. So we got rid of it.

One advantage of our mail-in only system is that most folks vote early ( I do, usually or a day or two after my ballot arrives as I have already did my homework on the candidates & the measures ) and that allows the counting to begin before the 'polls close.'

The counting of the mail-in ballots begin as soon as they arrive but the numbers are kept quiet.

And I agree about losing a ballot in the mail. It is a risk but IMO a very small risk.

Here, while you are not 'going to the polls and casting my vote', you can drop your ballot off at many locations all over the state. It is sort of like 'going to the polls.'

I'm some what of a 'election nut' and have been following just how we do it here since I was that young kid and they voted at my house. I really do like the system here because how easy it is. And, one benefit is that we get a higher precentage of people voting with our mail-in system.

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 1,621]

Excellent commentary:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXMhbNZiSSA

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 620]

Candidate Donald Trump, his son Donald Trump Jr. and others in the Trump Organization received an email in September 2016 offering a decryption key and website address for hacked WikiLeaks documents, according to an email provided to congressional investigators.

[Phil1111 908]

Donald Trump’s Approval Rating Hits New Record Low, Making Him the Most Unpopular President in Poll History

"59 percent of Americans said collusion between Russia and the president's campaign ahead of the 2016 election "definitely or probably occurred." About 30 percent said "senior Trump officials definitely had improper contacts with Russia during the campaign."...

In the decades since World War II, the average first-term president before Trump had an approval rating of 62 percent on his 175th day in office," the site wrote in July, when Trump's approval rating was 39 percent.
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-approval-rating-hits-new-record-low-making-him-most-unpopular-741916

Quinnipiac: Only 29% of Americans approve of GOP tax plan
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/tax-plan-approval-quinnipiac-poll/index.html

Obama Is Now More Popular Than Trump in Alabama, Fox News Poll Finds
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/fox-poll-obama-is-now-more-popular-than-trump-in-alabama.html

[rushmc 18]

normiss

Candidate Donald Trump, his son Donald Trump Jr. and others in the Trump Organization received an email in September 2016 offering a decryption key and website address for hacked WikiLeaks documents, according to an email provided to congressional investigators.

CNN fails you yet again! Sure didn't take long to the de-bunk this one this time did it?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

The FBI reports today that they have known since March 17th that Sessions did nothing wrong meeting Russian ambassador. Tell me all the smartest one on the site, why did we just learn about this now?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,380]

>The FBI reports today that they have known since March 17th that Sessions did nothing
>wrong meeting Russian ambassador. Tell me all the smartest one on the site, why did we just
>learn about this now?

Because during most administrations, the news headline "On March 17th the Attorney General did nothing illegal!" isn't news.

In this administration it is indeed news; news organizations have been slow to adapt to the new normal.

[normiss 620]

It wasn't debunked, the date was incorrect.

[rushmc 18]

normiss

It wasn't debunked, the date was incorrect.

And you don't get the fucking importance of that? Really?? Oh my God.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

billvon

>The FBI reports today that they have known since March 17th that Sessions did nothing
>wrong meeting Russian ambassador. Tell me all the smartest one on the site, why did we just
>learn about this now?

Because during most administrations, the news headline "On March 17th the Attorney General did nothing illegal!" isn't news.

In this administration it is indeed news; news organizations have been slow to adapt to the new normal.

Well, there's also the rather significant fact that, even if the meeting was legal, lying about it, on official documents and while testifying under oath is not.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[normiss 620]

You are the quickest goal post mover I've ever seen.
I need to get back to ignoring you, thanks for reminding me why.

[DJL 232]

rushmc

The FBI reports today that they have known since March 17th that Sessions did nothing wrong meeting Russian ambassador. Tell me all the smartest one on the site, why did we just learn about this now?

The issue is disclosing it, not meeting with them. There is barely a person in Washington who hasn't met with some sort of foreign diplomat or conducted a political or business meeting with a foregner.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[gowlerk 1,903]

Fallon/Springsteen- Robert Mueller's coming to town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHu-2vyvaQY

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,380]

Trump floats a pardon of Flynn:

“I don't want to talk about pardons for Michael Flynn yet. We’ll see what happens.”

He should totally pardon Flynn. That way Flynn loses his right to plead the Fifth Amendment, and becomes Mueller's best weapon.

[gowlerk 1,903]

billvon

Trump floats a pardon of Flynn:

“I don't want to talk about pardons for Michael Flynn yet. We’ll see what happens.”

He should totally pardon Flynn. That way Flynn loses his right to plead the Fifth Amendment, and becomes Mueller's best weapon.

I don't believe he is just floating an idea. I think he's sending a signal to Flynn. Watch what you say. If you protect me I'll protect you. More obstruction.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.