Russiagate

[rushmc 18]

lippy

Quote

Her actions under the statue were criminal.

I for one would like to know what she was doing under the statue!

Just like your sig line......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

>That law is very clear.

Yes, it is - as is the conclusion. "We did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information . . .Based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July."

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>That law is very clear.

Yes, it is - as is the conclusion. "We did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information . . .Based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July."

Still twisting and spinning I see but then, who would be surprised at you doing this? Not I for one!

Following the Fusion GPS story any?

If you are not, you should be.

It is going to be fun to see if this fake news you keep posing turns on your favored party.

A lot of fun indeed
And again, Comey invented the intent word as it does not exist. Not you care.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

Having a picnic, enjoying the weather.
Wines, cheeses, and fruits too!

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

But I guess you must like a two tiered justice system.

One for you and me and one for powerful public figures.

I for one, think all of us are accountable under one system.

That's incredibly naive. We do have a two tiered justice system.

That's why poor, petty criminals can get life in prison for a third offense as mild as stealing a slice of pizza, while rich, big thinking criminals like Donald Trump can spend decades stealing money and services from contractors and not even face criminal prosecution.

It's why any street criminal involved in a crime can face 1st degree murder charges if someone dies in the process, but corporate manslaughter has such strict conditions that charges are basically never brought against executives or managers even if multiple people are killed because they ignored basic safety procedures, failed to provide safe equipment etc.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,623]

millertime24

Never been to court. I don't speed. You?

SO you aren't a real skydiver, then.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

>And again, Comey invented the intent word as it does not exist.

Wrong again. This is your usual 'argument from ignorance' - "I never heard of it, therefore it does not exist." Often used by climate change deniers, creationists, Apollo hoaxers and anti-vaxxers.

From Wikipedia:

========
In criminal law, intent is one of three general classes of mens rea necessary to constitute a conventional, as opposed to strict liability, crime. A more formal, generally synonymous legal term is scienter: intent or knowledge of wrongdoing.
========

A few examples in federal law:

18 U.S.C. § 1460- Possession with intent to sell, and sale, of obscene matter on Federal property

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information: Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>And again, Comey invented the intent word as it does not exist.

Wrong again. This is your usual 'argument from ignorance' - "I never heard of it, therefore it does not exist." Often used by climate change deniers, creationists, Apollo hoaxers and anti-vaxxers.

From Wikipedia:

========
In criminal law, intent is one of three general classes of mens rea necessary to constitute a conventional, as opposed to strict liability, crime. A more formal, generally synonymous legal term is scienter: intent or knowledge of wrongdoing.
========

A few examples in federal law:

18 U.S.C. § 1460- Possession with intent to sell, and sale, of obscene matter on Federal property

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information: Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation

Notice everyone that bill did not post the actual law or laws that Hillary broke. There's a reason for that and Bill knows it. His intention is to be ignorant in this case so as to try and prove a point he does not have.

Has addressed by many lawyers regarding this law intent is not part of it and never has it been intended to be part of it. Careless or Reckless handling of classified material is a crime. Intent has nothing to do with it. And I believe Bill does really know this.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

You're beyond ignorant of how laws and justice work, or intentionally dismissing it because of your bias.
The only surprise here is that I actually responded to your insanity.

I'm sure you'll continue it though.

My apologies troll, and everyone else for that matter.

[lummy 4]

Quote

Notice everyone that bill did not post the actual law or laws that Hillary broke. There's a reason for that and Bill knows it. His intention is to be ignorant in this case so as to try and prove a point he does not have.

Why aren't you posting the laws that you say Hillary broke then?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[rushmc 18]

lummy

Quote

Notice everyone that bill did not post the actual law or laws that Hillary broke. There's a reason for that and Bill knows it. His intention is to be ignorant in this case so as to try and prove a point he does not have.

Why aren't you posting the laws that you say Hillary broke then?

Gotta wait for some to expose thier ignorance.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/437479/fbi-rewrites-federal-law-let-hillary-hook

Link fixed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lummy 4]

the author of that article is purposely combining 2 different subsections of the law to mislead the reader into thinking that the FBI rewrote the law to shield Hillary.

The author is falsly trying to claim that Comey implied there had to be intent to be grossly negligent. That is not the case. The law says that you either have to intentionally try to hurt the US by mishandling classified materials (sub sections A and B), or you have to be grossly negligent in handling the classified materials (section F)

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

In Fact, Comey made 2 declarations. He said the following about both sections of the law I cited above:

Quote

The director added that although the secretary may have been “extremely careless,” the FBI determined it could not recommend a charge of a “felony to mishandle classified information either intentionally or in a grossly negligent way.”

In other words, Hillary neither had any intent to harm the US by her actions, nor was she grossly negligent in her handling of classified materials.

Comey also went on to support the decision by citing prior prosecutions that define what INTENT or grossly negligent would be and that Hillary's use did not fall into either subsection.

Quote

All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here."

FBI press release July 5

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

***>And again, Comey invented the intent word as it does not exist.

Wrong again. This is your usual 'argument from ignorance' - "I never heard of it, therefore it does not exist." Often used by climate change deniers, creationists, Apollo hoaxers and anti-vaxxers.

From Wikipedia:

========
In criminal law, intent is one of three general classes of mens rea necessary to constitute a conventional, as opposed to strict liability, crime. A more formal, generally synonymous legal term is scienter: intent or knowledge of wrongdoing.
========

A few examples in federal law:

18 U.S.C. § 1460- Possession with intent to sell, and sale, of obscene matter on Federal property

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information: Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation

Notice everyone that bill did not post the actual law or laws that Hillary broke. There's a reason for that and Bill knows it.

Well, since the FBI under a Republican director, and a whole bunch of GOP led Congressional committees found that no crimes were committed, the explanation is pretty obvious to anyone who is not wilfully ignorant.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[yoink 321]

rushmc

***Cool. So if I didn't intend to speed I shouldn't receive a citation.

You got it!!!!




I'm just going to leave this here as proof for the pointlessness of trying to talk about 'law' with rushmc.

Rush, you seem unable to differentiate between the way you want the law to work, and the way it actually works in reality.

Try this experiment - take your car out and hit 100 in front of a cop. When you get pulled over tell them that it was an accident and that you didn't mean to... Let me know how that goes for you.

[yoink 321]

rushmc

***

Carelessly storing sensitive data on an unsecured server isn't, despite whether people think it should be or not. That's the FBI's finding, not my interpretation.

You are absolutely wrong!
You are using YOUR own interpretation here!!!

That law is very clear.


Then it should be very simple for you to quote it then. Once again, I'll wait for proof - just like you couldn't provide any earlier...

You've made a statement of fact, now back it up.

In case this isn't clear by now, every time you do this I'm going to demand that you provide evidence to back up your 'facts'. Not links to some right-wing article that you skimmed the title of but actual official documents or first hand evidence.

[rushmc 18]

yoink

******

Carelessly storing sensitive data on an unsecured server isn't, despite whether people think it should be or not. That's the FBI's finding, not my interpretation.

You are absolutely wrong!
You are using YOUR own interpretation here!!!

That law is very clear.


Then it should be very simple for you to quote it then. Once again, I'll wait for proof - just like you couldn't provide any earlier...

You've made a statement of fact, now back it up.

In case this isn't clear by now, every time you do this I'm going to demand that you provide evidence to back up your 'facts'. Not links to some right-wing article that you skimmed the title of but actual official documents or first hand evidence.

The law was quoted in the link.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[yoink 321]

rushmc

*********

Carelessly storing sensitive data on an unsecured server isn't, despite whether people think it should be or not. That's the FBI's finding, not my interpretation.

You are absolutely wrong!
You are using YOUR own interpretation here!!!

That law is very clear.


Then it should be very simple for you to quote it then. Once again, I'll wait for proof - just like you couldn't provide any earlier...

You've made a statement of fact, now back it up.

In case this isn't clear by now, every time you do this I'm going to demand that you provide evidence to back up your 'facts'. Not links to some right-wing article that you skimmed the title of but actual official documents or first hand evidence.

The law was quoted in the link.

And proven to be deliberately misquoted. Lummy wrote a great post about how you're being manipulated by articles like that. THAT'S why we provide links to sources.


Go back to the original source... Give me a link from the official US justice code, not an article that has an agenda trying to interpret it.

[tkhayes 125]

!!! got some more exclamation marks there? !!!!

I mean after all those....you are right, I concede.... I am convinced. it was those dots and lines that did me in.... Maybe the Republicans should have used more of them in the countless investigations that turned up nothing....she would have been put to death by now.

[billvon 2,396]

Today's revelation - Trump dictated the lies that Trump Jr fed to the press to deflect the inquiries into his meeting with Russian intelligence.

Drip drip drip . . .
=========================
Trump dictated son’s misleading statement on meeting with Russian lawyer

President Trump personally intervened to write Donald Trump Jr. statement

By Ashley Parker
July 31 at 7:46 PM
WaPo

On the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit in Germany last month, President Trump’s advisers discussed how to respond to a new revelation that Trump’s oldest son had met with a Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign — a disclosure the advisers knew carried political and potentially legal peril.

The strategy, the advisers agreed, should be for Donald Trump Jr. to release a statement to get ahead of the story. They wanted to be truthful, so their account couldn’t be repudiated later if the full details emerged.

But within hours, at the president’s direction, the plan changed.

Flying home from Germany on July 8 aboard Air Force One, Trump personally dictated a statement in which Trump Jr. said that he and the Russian lawyer had “primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” when they met in June 2016, according to multiple people with knowledge of the deliberations. The statement, issued to the New York Times as it prepared an article, emphasized that the subject of the meeting was “not a campaign issue at the time.”

The claims were later shown to be misleading.

Over the next three days, multiple accounts of the meeting were provided to the news media as public pressure mounted, with Trump Jr. ultimately acknowledging that he had accepted the meeting after receiving an email promising damaging information about Hillary Clinton as part of a Russian government effort to help his father’s campaign.

The extent of the president’s personal intervention in his son’s response, the details of which have not previously been reported, adds to a series of actions that Trump has taken that some advisers fear could place him and some members of his inner circle in legal jeopardy.

As special counsel Robert S. Mueller III looks into potential obstruction of justice as part of his broader investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election, these advisers worry that the president’s direct involvement leaves him needlessly vulnerable to allegations of a coverup.
============================

[wmw999 2,121]

"For the children"

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[normiss 622]

Quote

to expose thier ignorance

This says it all.

[Phil1111 910]

normiss

Quote

to expose thier ignorance

This says it all.

Or a Machiavellian family whose children are no different than the father.

[DJL 232]

Quote

In other words, Hillary neither had any intent to harm the US by her actions, nor was she grossly negligent in her handling of classified materials.

We also know that the safeguards on the server were at least as effective as those used by the State Department servers which she was supposed to be using which we know were compromised by hacking. Basically, anything she had could have been as easily viewed as those of the servers she was supposed to be working from.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,396]

And today we hear of a lawsuit filed against Trump, alleging that the entire Seth Rich story was a fabrication intended to draw attention away from Trump's connections to Russia. Specifically, Trump, a Fox News reporter and a wealthy Trump supporter colluded to invent a fake news story to take the heat off Trump.

Also interestingly, the meetings were confirmed by Spicer. Turns out there might be a disadvantage to stabbing people in the back and then firing them; who knew?

Drip drip . . . .

=================================
Lawsuit Alleges Trump Pushed Fox News to Publish Debunked Seth Rich Story
Written by Benjamin Freed | Published on August 1, 2017
Washingtonian

A lawsuit filed Tuesday alleges that Fox News Channel, a wealthy Republican Party donor, and the White House collaborated on the creation of a story about slain Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich that quickly fell apart after it was published in late May. The suit even claims that President Trump reviewed the story before its release and wanted it published “immediately.”

The suit, which was first reported by NPR News, comes from Rod Wheeler, a private investigator and occasional Fox News commentator, who was quoted extensively in the May story as saying there was evidence that Rich, who was killed outside his Bloomingdale home in July 2017, had been in communication with Wikileaks, which last summer published volumes of internal DNC correspondence. The Fox News report, a version of which was also shown by local Fox station WTTG, appeared to confirm a popular right-wing theory that Rich had been Wikileaks’s source, despite conclusions from US intelligence agencies that the DNC had been hacked by agents of the Russian government.

The story was quickly denounced and disproven by multiple law-enforcement agencies, including DC’s Metropolitan Police Department, which is investigating Rich’s death as the result of a botched armed robbery. But it gave fuel to conspiracy theorists who continued to stoke an unfounded narrative, including Fox News host Sean Hannity, who made conspiracies about Rich the focus of his prime-time show for several days. The story itself was formally retracted a week after it first appeared.

Wheeler’s suit is targeted at Ed Butowsky, a Dallas financial adviser and GOP donor, and Malia Zimmerman, the author of the online version of Fox News’s story. In the complaint, which was filed in federal court in New York, Wheeler says Butowksy introduced himself in Februrary, and “offered to bankroll an investigation into Seth Rich’s murder.” The suit also claims Butowsky said he was working with Zimmerman on a Fox News investigative piece about the Rich case. But Wheeler now argues that Butowsky’s and Zimmerman’s motives were less-than-sincere.

“As it turned out, Butowsky and Zimmerman were not simply Good Samaritans attempting to solve a murder,” the complaint reads. “Rather, they were interested in advancing a political agenda for the Trump Administration. Specifically, it was their aim to have Mr. Wheeler confirm that: (i) Seth Rich was responsible for the leak of DNC emails to WikiLeaks; and (ii) Seth Rich was murdered by a Democrat operative because he leaked the emails to WikiLeaks.”

The goal, Wheeler’s suit argues, was to take the heat off allegations that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia. Moreover, Wheeler claims Butowsky repeatedly communicated about the progress of Zimmerman’s story with White House officials, including chief strategist Steve Bannon and then-press secretary Sean Spicer. Wheeler says in the complaint that he and Butowsky met with Spicer before Zimmerman’s story ran on May 16 to review Wheeler’s notes. Spicer confirmed to NPR that he met with Butowsky, but as a favor to a fellow Republican and reliable White House ally.
==============================

[billvon 2,396]

Quote

Notice everyone that bill did not post the actual law or laws that Hillary broke. There's a reason for that and Bill knows it.

That is exactly right. There is a reason - because she did not break any actual laws.

I will concede that she did break a great many imaginary laws, and you have expounded on those imaginings many times. Indeed, you have quoted a lot of fake news describing those imaginary violations. But here in the real world, she didn't break any - and the FBI confirmed it, as did half a dozen other investigations.

But in any case, the above was intended to demonstrate that your claim that "Comey invented the intent word as it does not exist" is completely false.