Russiagate

[billvon 2,384]

4 minutes ago, jakee said:

Giuliani said the most amazing thing in that video. Paraphrasing slightly:

 

"They were talking about the version of events that Michael Cohen gave that they believed was true, I believed was true. I still believe it may be true, because unlike the people that want to believe him, I believe michael Cohen is a serial liar."

 

Wow, um, what? Unlike people that want to believe Michael Cohen, Giuliani believes Michael Cohen. Giuliani believes Michael Cohen told the truth, because Giuliani knows that Michael Cohen lies all the time.

 

Pick the bones out of that one

Maybe "the version of events that Michael Cohen gave" was a parallel event, so he wasn't lying about it?

Maybe Cohen was in Bizarro World when he gave that version of events?

Maybe Rudy is back to drinking at lunch?

[ryoder 1,381]

4 minutes ago, billvon said:

Maybe "the version of events that Michael Cohen gave" was a parallel event, so he wasn't lying about it?

Maybe Cohen was in Bizarro World when he gave that version of events?

Maybe Rudy is back to drinking at lunch?

Well, when Trevor Noah showed a clip of Giuliani a few days ago, he pointed out there is definitely no collusion between Rudy's mouth and Rudy's brain.

[rushmc 18]

Explains your prolific posts

 

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-worst-most-embarrassing-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/

[billvon 2,384]

On 1/20/2019 at 11:44 AM, ryoder said:

Well, when Trevor Noah showed a clip of Giuliani a few days ago, he pointed out there is definitely no collusion between Rudy's mouth and Rudy's brain.

Rudy in an interview with the New Yorker:

====================

Giuliani: I can tell you, from the moment I read the story, I knew the story was false.

Reporter: Because?

Giuliani: Because I have been through all the tapes, I have been through all the texts, I have been through all the emails, and I knew none existed. And then, basically, when the special counsel said that, just in case there are any others I might not know about, they probably went through others and found the same thing.

Reporter: Wait, what tapes have you gone through?

Giuliani: (pause) I shouldn’t have said tapes.

=======================

Thanks, stupid mouth, always saying things I didn't want it to say!

[obelixtim 100]

The Dementia is strong in this one. And seems to be contagious in the WH.

[kallend 1,621]

 

The POLITICO/Morning Consult poll was conducted Jan. 18-22, surveying 1,996 registered voters. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 2 percentage points.

According to the poll, 57 percent believe it’s likely that Russia “has compromising information“ on Trump, compared to 31 percent who don't think it's likely.

[DJL 232]

On 1/23/2019 at 8:37 AM, kallend said:

 

The POLITICO/Morning Consult poll was conducted Jan. 18-22, surveying 1,996 registered voters. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 2 percentage points.

According to the poll, 57 percent believe it’s likely that Russia “has compromising information“ on Trump, compared to 31 percent who don't think it's likely.

To be fair, polls measure the popularity of information, not the facts of it.

[rushmc 18]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/gregg-jarrett-testimony-in-russia-probe-shows-fbi-and-justice-department-misconduct-in-effort-to-hurt-trump

 

The lies slowly keep being exposed

[ScottishJohn 25]

Trump ally Roger Stone is arrested as part of Mullers Russia Probe.

Roger Stone, a key ally of Donald Trump, has been arrested on charges of obstruction, witness tampering and making false statements

 

Pick your preferred news source.

 

[tkhayes 124]

13 minutes ago, ScottishJohn said:

Trump ally Roger Stone is arrested as part of Mullers Russia Probe.

Roger Stone, a key ally of Donald Trump, has been arrested on charges of obstruction, witness tampering and making false statements

 

Pick your preferred news source.

 

No doubt... all at the direction of the President himself.  I wonder how much longer Trump supporters can stand there and claim they are patriotic Americans when the election process was undoubtedly compromised by criminals...  Oh that's right... it's their team, so it's OK..

[ryoder 1,381]

34 minutes ago, ScottishJohn said:

Trump ally Roger Stone is arrested as part of Mullers Russia Probe.

Roger Stone, a key ally of Donald Trump, has been arrested on charges of obstruction, witness tampering and making false statements

 

Pick your preferred news source.

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer snake.

I'd like to see some state charges so Mango Mussolini couldn't pardon him.

[ScottishJohn 25]

On 1/22/2019 at 6:18 PM, obelixtim said:

The Dementia is strong in this one. And seems to be contagious in the WH.

The Giulianis: our awards for the very worst of Rudy

[DJL 232]

11 hours ago, rushmc said:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/gregg-jarrett-testimony-in-russia-probe-shows-fbi-and-justice-department-misconduct-in-effort-to-hurt-trump

 

The lies slowly keep being exposed

It isn't news that the material for the FISA warrant was thoroughly reviewed by those working on the case.  It's also not incriminating for them to have reviewed it and understood what it was.  What's your point?  This is rehash from last year, is Fox really that short on material?

[gowlerk 1,903]

11 hours ago, rushmc said:

 

 

The lies slowly keep being exposed

Yes, and the arrests and indictments keep piling up. The burger just keeps on getting juicier. Roger Stone is like a big serving of bacon and cheese on it.

[Phil1111 908]

13 minutes ago, DJL said:

It isn't news that the material for the FISA warrant was thoroughly reviewed by those working on the case.  It's also not incriminating for them to have reviewed it and understood what it was.  What's your point?  This is rehash from last year, is Fox really that short on material?

For Marc, trump and the cultists. its all about deflection, distraction.. Imagine a baby is crying because it fell over while learning to walk. You make funny faces, the baby is distracted, the crying stops.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

On 1/23/2019 at 7:37 AM, kallend said:

 

The POLITICO/Morning Consult poll was conducted Jan. 18-22, surveying 1,996 registered voters. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 2 percentage points.

According to the poll, 57 percent believe it’s likely that Russia “has compromising information“ on Trump, compared to 31 percent who don't think it's likely.

 

16 hours ago, DJL said:

To be fair, polls measure the popularity of information, not the facts of it.

That's true. But when more than half of the respondents to a poll believe something, it's telling.

 

Dan Rather on FB (I don't know how to make it a 'quote' with the shading):

"Innocent until proven guilty. That is the bedrock of American jurisprudence and that standard must apply to the President. But that doesn't mean that those who have not yet been convicted cannot provoke strong suspicions of guilt. That's what drives law enforcement to investigate, when there's a lot of smoke, there's usually a fire.

News of the Roger Stone indictment raises the number of close associates, very close associates, to the President who have either been indicted or pled guilty to a staggering number. No one can let themselves become inured to this. There can be no outrage fatigue. Our only historical measuring stick is Watergate. But even that stain on American history did not have the specter of foreign interference from a hostile power like this one.

As the walls tighten around President Trump, his reaction in Tweet and tone resembles a mob boss. But with the President, his threats and talk of "rats" are there in the open. Many seasoned prosecutors say these actions clearly pass the bar of witness tampering.

For many people, the credibility of President Trump claiming he didn't know or do anything wrong has long since been shattered. This latest news makes any such assertions even harder to take."

 

There's a lot of 'smoke' going on here.

It's only the true "Trumpettes" that refuse to see that something shady is going on.

[kallend 1,621]

2 hours ago, ScottishJohn said:

Trump ally Roger Stone is arrested as part of Mullers Russia Probe.

Roger Stone, a key ally of Donald Trump, has been arrested on charges of obstruction, witness tampering and making false statements

 

Pick your preferred news source.

 

Who is keeping score of the indictments, convictions and sentences?  I believe the Trump administration is way in the lead in these categories.

[DJL 232]

"There's a lot of 'smoke' going on here."

That's another measuring stick I don't believe.  There was always smoke around Hillary and it was because her opponents were generating it.  In the same way there's a lot of smoke around Trump from people generating it.  I wish they wouldn't because it's obscuring the cause of the smoke that he is generating on his own from his supporters.  Let's let Mueller finish this and be happy with the results.

[ryoder 1,381]

6 minutes ago, kallend said:

Who is keeping score of the indictments, convictions and sentences?  I believe the Trump administration is way in the lead in these categories.

Rolling Stone just updated their list: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/list-of-mueller-indictments-783405/

[gowlerk 1,903]

7 minutes ago, DJL said:

"There's a lot of 'smoke' going on here."

That's another measuring stick I don't believe.  There was always smoke around Hillary and it was because her opponents were generating it.  In the same way there's a lot of smoke around Trump from people generating it.  I wish they wouldn't because it's obscuring the cause of the smoke that he is generating on his own from his supporters.  Let's let Mueller finish this and be happy with the results.

But in this case the "smoke" is being generated not by opponents, but by the DoJ. Huge difference. It's not really a good analogy  anyway. There was no smoke around Hillary, just claims that there was.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

12 minutes ago, DJL said:

"There's a lot of 'smoke' going on here."

That's another measuring stick I don't believe.  There was always smoke around Hillary and it was because her opponents were generating it.  In the same way there's a lot of smoke around Trump from people generating it.  I wish they wouldn't because it's obscuring the cause of the smoke that he is generating on his own from his supporters.  Let's let Mueller finish this and be happy with the results.

True to a certain degree. 

There's a certain amount of 'smoke' around HRC. Some of it was pure 'opponent generated', some was actual, real issues. The Rose Law firm, commodities speculation, travel office, 'vast right wing conspiracy' claims towards the beginning of the Lewinsky crap. She's no saint. 

Some of that was worth investigating and was.

Similarly, many of Trumps shenanigans need to be investigated. And are being. I'm not rushing to judgement, but the continuing saga of indictments and guilty pleas are hard to dismiss. Which is what the Trumpettes are doing. 

I fully agree that the investigation needs to finish. Which is what Trump and his supporters do NOT want to see.

[Phil1111 908]

5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

But in this case the "smoke" is being generated not by opponents, but by the DoJ. Huge difference. It's not really a good analogy  anyway. There was no smoke around Hillary, just claims that there was.

"Smoke" may be real, caused by a fire. Or illusionary, caused spin, false information, distraction and speculation accepted as fact. Its up to critical minds to see through the "smoke', er spin.

Thats the very nature of politics and critical debate.

[gowlerk 1,903]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

"Smoke" may be real, caused by a fire. Or illusionary, caused spin, false information, distraction and speculation accepted as fact. Its up to critical minds to see through the "smoke', er spin.

Thats the very nature of politics and critical debate.

Sometimes I think too literally.

[Phil1111 908]

12 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

...Similarly, many of Trumps shenanigans need to be investigated. And are being. I'm not rushing to judgement, but the continuing saga of indictments and guilty pleas are hard to dismiss. Which is what the Trumpettes are doing. 

I fully agree that the investigation needs to finish. Which is what Trump and his supporters do NOT want to see.

Agree. Mueller indictments are more important than any actual report. What if additional wrongdoing is ascertained that requires investigation and it delays the "report" by Mueller to 2020? Charges before the courts are adjudicated and defended. When the matters are resolved by dismissal, or more usually, by terms of incarceration. The rubber is on the road for all to see.

Congress, the house have important duties to fulfill in accordance with the constitution and the sworn duties of those members. They can't wait for Mueller. What the Mueller report will do is fill in the blanks between indictments. It will point the law at trump. If Mueller is reluctant to test, personally, the constitutional protections of the presidency against indictment(s).

Edited January 25, 2019 by Phil1111
grammar

[billvon 2,384]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

 

That's true. But when more than half of the respondents to a poll believe something, it's telling.

 

It tells us that people believe something.

Poll results like that easily refute the claim that people "don't believe that Trump could be under Russia's thumb" or some such Trumpie claim.  But they don't say anything about whether he really is.  At best, it reflects that people _think_ he is.

Quote

But with the President, his threats and talk of "rats" are there in the open. Many seasoned prosecutors say these actions clearly pass the bar of witness tampering.

I'd say his threats against Cohen's family (specifically father in law) are pretty undeniable attempts to silence a witness before testimony.  And given that Cohen did, as a result, refuse to testify before Congress, there is pretty hard proof that Trump acted to prevent witness testimony.

What's hard to believe for me is that Trump can't help himself even as evidence of obstruction piles up.  He's like the mob boss who, on the stand, says "I never ordered anyone's death!  And if anyone says otherwise, why, they just might want to watch their backs, because I ain't the forgiving type when people lie."  (Although the way things are going lately, I could see some people here saying "what's wrong with that?")