JerryBaumchen 1,048 #51 January 24, 2017 Hi Seth, Quote I know a few people like this . . . While you do not know me, I think I sort of fit into this. I have enough money to more than support me. I last 'worked' ( drawing an actual salary ) when I turned 62, 14 yrs ago. Since then I have had a couple of consulting things that have come along that paid quite well; but those were totally unexpected. I have some hobbies and I have my 'parachute business,' and it might actually make me some money one day. I now have the time to do some design work ( that I really enjoy ) without the normal pressures of a day job. Now, the trick is to live long enough to bankrupt my retirement money. Last year I spent 3 weeks in Europe, visiting friends & getting another Bucket List item checked off. Life can be pretty good in old age, Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #52 January 24, 2017 airdvrYou're still missing the most basic of economic theories. What are these robots and computers making and who is buying? In the utopian UBI scenario those receiving the benefit won't have much purchasing power. And that lot gets larger and larger as more human jobs are replaced. As the human jobs are replaced the pool of money to pay the UBI recipient gets drained. While some might see the UBI idea as promising I see it as a gray wasteland where no one wants to live. But the free market is driven by short termism. In the long term, complete automation of production, logistics and sales may destroy the market which the automatons are built to serve... but industry will do it anyway because otherwise companies will, in the short term, be outcompeted and destroyed if they don't. Since with no safety net the default outcome would then be a black wasteland, a grey one would at least be preferable to that.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #53 January 24, 2017 >You're still missing the most basic of economic theories. What are these robots >and computers making and who is buying? Clothing. Food. Toys. Cars. Movies. Roads. As to who is buying? Same consumers as before. > As the human jobs are replaced the pool of money to pay the UBI recipient gets drained. And the cost of things bought with that pool of money goes down. Economically it works. Is it a good plan in terms of societal planning? I don't think so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SethInMI 145 #54 January 24, 2017 One thing I keep in mind is that in the past 200 years, massive changes in automation and productivity have shifted jobs from mostly back-breaking farm labor to what we have today. I feel pretty confident that even with the changes we foresee moving to our robot-economy, there will be tasks people can do, and the ability to pay them to do it. Maybe we all become artists, teachers with tiny class sizes, or tour guides and hosts / entertainers. Who knows, but I'm not worried as long as we don't become more resource constrained and that does not seem likely as the population growth curve continues to level off.It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 910 #55 January 24, 2017 airdvr ******You're still missing the most basic of economic theories. What are these robots and computers making and who is buying? In the utopian UBI scenario those receiving the benefit won't have much purchasing power. And that lot gets larger and larger as more human jobs are replaced. As the human jobs are replaced the pool of money to pay the UBI recipient gets drained. While some might see the UBI idea as promising I see it as a gray wasteland where no one wants to live. Economic theories are just that. Theories. The best answers come from countries or states that try it out. Its like safe needle injection sites. When i first heard of it I thought it was the stupidest idea since trickle down economics. But the savings in incarceration costs, health costs from the reduction in spread of disease. Makes it a no brainer. I don't think is an idea that should be tried first. But after a five year trial, EU countries should have some good data to study. You mean try it out like the USSR? I doubt the USSR ever had a successful program excepting space. In order to judge success the economics would have to be close in all the parameters between two states. While EU countries have more government participation than the US. They would be better than nothing. Somehow the idea that hard core republicans could get their heads around it. Would be like democrats agreeing to the arming of every citizen, without restriction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #56 January 24, 2017 QuoteMaybe we all become artists Who buys all the art? Quoteteachers with tiny class sizes, Who pays for the school system? Quoteor tour guides and hosts / entertainers. Who takes the tours and throws the parties?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,910 #57 January 24, 2017 Maybe there will be a slave economy, with robots as slaves. Everyone get a number of slave robots and puts them to work earning a living?Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 910 #58 January 24, 2017 gowlerkMaybe there will be a slave economy, with robots as slaves. Everyone get a number of slave robots and puts them to work earning a living? I was thinking along those same lines. A robot to get the oil https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-24/robots-are-taking-over-oil-rigs-as-roughnecks-become-expendable another to fly the plane,another to fix the plane, another to pack the rig, and perhaps one to serve supper! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #59 January 24, 2017 Phil1111***Maybe there will be a slave economy, with robots as slaves. Everyone get a number of slave robots and puts them to work earning a living? I was thinking along those same lines. A robot to get the oil https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-24/robots-are-taking-over-oil-rigs-as-roughnecks-become-expendable another to fly the plane,another to fix the plane, another to pack the rig, and perhaps one to serve supper! Google "The Midas Plague" to see that concept brought to its logical conclusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #60 January 25, 2017 Phil1111***Maybe there will be a slave economy, with robots as slaves. Everyone get a number of slave robots and puts them to work earning a living? I was thinking along those same lines. A robot to get the oil https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-24/robots-are-taking-over-oil-rigs-as-roughnecks-become-expendable another to fly the plane,another to fix the plane, another to pack the rig, and perhaps one to serve supper! Until SkyNet goes online.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SethInMI 145 #61 January 25, 2017 jakee Who [pays for everything]? Everyone pays for everything. That is how an economy works. What happens in a post-scarcity economy is that things that are not scarce become really cheap, and if the basics of life are plentiful, then people can afford them with no to little cost. The things that actually are expensive are things that people don't want automated, or are limited in access. (only so many people can live in a certain area, or visit a place etc).It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
