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mirage62

How much of Trump being elected is Obama's fault?

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I wish anybody but Trump had gotten elected, I couldn't vote for HRC though.

IMO the failure of Obama to widen his support during his 8 years and the Dem's nominating HRC is what got Trump elected. Obama DID get health care past which was his passion but in doing so split the country up.

I understand the dislike of Trump....but the Dem's nominated Hillary who was almost as disliked.

Now my liberal friends are in a frenzy of Trump hate ....yet they don't seem to understand that their party help create a situation where Trump could get elected.

Come on folks - Bernie would have killed Trump - yet you put up HRC. (Rep screwed up to)
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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mirage62

Come on folks - Bernie would have killed Trump - yet you put up HRC. (Rep screwed up to)



It's unknowable. I agree that perhaps a different candidate might have done better against Trump, but it's literally unknowable.

I think a lot of the post-election analysis and especially the part about the "white working class" being the voting force which got Trump into office is pure bunk.

I think there are far more subtle things going on in a lot more areas people are unwilling to discuss.

For instance, 53% of registered white women did not vote for Hillary. Come on, now. If, with all the women's issues in the US, 53% of white women didn't vote for Hillary and just allowed Trump to win, something is fundamentally wrong. It's difficult to say exactly what, but I have a difficult time wrapping my mind around why they just didn't turn out for her. I'm not suggesting they should simply vote with their genitals, but if you look at women's issues and what Hillary was proposing versus Trump it should have been a pretty easy decision for them to support her.

As for Obama being a net negative for the Democrats, I don't think so. I think the only mistake, and it was years ago, was his embracing the name "Obamacare" because it gave the Republicans a rallying cry.

If anyone rationally looks at the 44th Administration as a whole, it's had some mistakes, it's done a few things I disagree with, but as a whole it has been a net positive for the country. Certainly the country as a whole is in far better shape today than when he took his first oath of office.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I like Bernie, but he was a little too hardcore socialist for a lot of people, so while his outsider status would be a plus, he would have been very easily tarred as a "Socialist!!1!" and could have gotten beaten with that.

What I'd like to understand is what you believe Obama should have done in the face of a party who refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of his citizenship (let alone the legitimacy of his ascending to the presidency).

I'm genuinely curious.

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The government as a whole has neglected education for far too long. Most of the working class has become obsolete and unable to compete in global energy and technology. This isn't Obama's fault, no one expected Trump to win, not even republicans. Everyone underestimated how stupid and angry most of the rural US has become. This was a systemic problem brewing for a long time. Now the retards are in control and we all will suffer.

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This. Obama did try (not full-on press, but a legitimate try) to have some bipartisan discussions. With Democrats in control, it was going to be Democrat-led, but that beats nothing.

Instead the rank and file were pretty much instructed not to communicate or cooperate. As far as I'm concerned, Mitch McConnell owns a lot of that, and if be happy to see him defeated.

Now, apparently he's also making it clear that the Republicans do not welcome any inputs from the Democrats in congress. This is not based on a detailed analysis; I've lost some stomach for intensely reading the news.

This sucks. When the two teams forget that their purpose is to help the country, and not to make their team look good (hopefully but not necessarily helping the country), it's wrong. It's like a company with a seriously stovepiped culture; each department more focused on itself than on the company as a whole.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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I agree that it's difficult to know. I didn't like voting for Trump but I disliked Hillary even more, and I felt as if my not voting for Trump was the same as voting for HRC. I think a lot of white, middle-aged, middle-class folks felt the same. ETA Obama played no part in my decision.

Now I'm interested to see what happens when you go off script as we are now.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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What I'd like to understand is what you believe Obama should have done in the face....



I don't believe as a "party" that was the line. It wasn't with me or any of my friends. Basically we thought that whole issue was bs.

Do you recall the "elections have consequences" comment, how about the passing of Obamacare straight down party lines? Do you really believe that was enough time to study what was in the bill before it passed?

These an other action firmed up moderate Republicans.

So I'll ask you a question and I'm genuinely curious....do you think Obama actions as president contributed to Trump being elected.
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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When the two teams forget that their purpose is to help the country, and not to make their team look good (hopefully but not necessarily helping the country), it's wrong. It's like a company with a seriously stovepiped culture; each department more focused on itself than on the company as a whole.



At the top of my all time favorite Wendy comments.

THIS is the problem and what really worries me is that the Rep had a chance to change (support Obama on good legislation) and didn't and the Dem's are coming out the same way with Trump.

If neither of the teams will pay for the common man - we are screwed.
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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mirage62



So I'll ask you a question and I'm genuinely curious....do you think Obama actions as president contributed to Trump being elected.



HRC was responsible for Hillary's not being elected.

Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Jeb Bush, Kasich, Christie, Fiorina, Santorum, Rand Paul, Huckabee, Perry, Walker, Putin... AND HRC are responsible for Trump's being elected.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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skinnay

The government as a whole has neglected education for far too long. Most of the working class has become obsolete and unable to compete in global energy and technology. This isn't Obama's fault, no one expected Trump to win, not even republicans. Everyone underestimated how stupid and angry most of the rural US has become. This was a systemic problem brewing for a long time. Now the retards are in control and we all will suffer.




it's been a long time since I laughed so hard my stomach hurt. Thank you
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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kallend

***

So I'll ask you a question and I'm genuinely curious....do you think Obama actions as president contributed to Trump being elected.



HRC was responsible for Hillary's not being elected.

Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Jeb Bush, Kasich, Christie, Fiorina, Santorum, Rand Paul, Huckabee, Perry, Walker, Putin... AND HRC are responsible for Trump's being elected.

I said at the first debate that the GOP was going to implode during this election. My assumption would be that much like a reality show like Survivor they would all prey on the strongest candidate and the result would be the worst. I didn't think the worst candidate would ever have a chance in the real world but I underestimated how much anyone would care about her stupid fucking emails.

Obama had nada to do with it. He failed to fill the seat on the SC and that's the only thing you can put on him for this election because it made that seat an election issue.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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I'm not convinced Trump is Obama's fault.

I think it's the Democratic party's fault for putting forward Clinton but how much he has to do with that I'm not sure.

I suspect that Hillary was only nominated because she's go so much leverage on numerous members of the democratic party that they were forced to give her a turn, rather than her being the best candidate. THAT was the issue... they put forward someone so inherently unlikable that they torpedoed their own chances without even considering the fact that they might lose. Hubris, etc.

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brenthutch

It's GWB's fault.



No doubt:

Butterfly effect. noun. The idea, used in chaos theory, that a very small difference in the initial state of a nonlinear system can make a significant difference to the state at some later time. ... from the beating of a butterfly's wings in one place causing a tornado in another part of the world.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

***It's GWB's fault.



No doubt:

Butterfly effect. noun. The idea, used in chaos theory, that a very small difference in the initial state of a nonlinear system can make a significant difference to the state at some later time. ... from the beating of a butterfly's wings in one place causing a tornado in another part of the world.

Oh for fuck's sake, just post the Jurassic Park scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cVLUPwrSmU
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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