jclalor 12 #1 January 7, 2017 I was always under the impression that a politician had to at least take the oath of office before he was able to break his campaign promises. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faicon9493 114 #2 January 7, 2017 jclalorI was always under the impression that a politician had to at least take the oath of office before he was able to break his campaign promises. Relax. He's just warming up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,903 #3 January 7, 2017 Faicon9493***I was always under the impression that a politician had to at least take the oath of office before he was able to break his campaign promises. Relax. He's just warming up. Not an ordinary lying liar. The greatest lying liar.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #4 January 7, 2017 To answer your actual question: Nobody. That wall will never be built. It's a logistical and ecological impossibility. There has never been a real chance that it would ever be built. Anyone with any real understanding of the border (both geographically and politically) knew this. It was simply a sound bite for Trump to attract the "anti-immigrant" crowd. Or at least the "stupid anti-immigrant" crowd."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #5 January 8, 2017 Vicente Fox Quesada TRUMP, when will you understand that I am not paying for that fucken wall. Be clear with US tax payers. They will pay for it SO, not Mexico per their President... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 January 8, 2017 Be prepared for Trump's meaning of "pay" to shift from literal money to metaphorical retribution, so even if they do not pay in cash, they will pay with being treated poorly.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #7 January 8, 2017 The wall is the most important thing Trump can do to keep his rabid fan base. Without them he will have almost no support, so he really can't let the wall fail. What he will do is everything in power to fund it with US dollars and then try to start a trade war taxing Mexican goods. That's the only way I can see him getting Mexico to "pay" for it. This will undoubtedly be a crisis for Mexico, which is not good for us either. Mexico already has a very fragile economy, just look what happened the last few days when gas prices have gone up 20%. While the republicans ideology of "fuck everyone but us" doesn't care about this, it will become a big problem for us as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #8 January 8, 2017 Anyone who has done any math on the issue knows the wall, as described by Trump, is fiscally stupid. https://www.viatechnik.com/blog/insane-math-behind-trump-wall/ Any engineer who has looked at the issue knows it's simply ridiculous to even consider. http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible/ The literal wall, as described by Trump, will not be built. Some version of a wall might be started and that might be enough to satisfy his idiot supporters for a 2020 re-election bid, but it will never be finished as originally described.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #9 January 9, 2017 >The literal wall, as described by Trump, will not be built. In Catch-22, there is a lieutenant named Scheisskopf. He doesn't seem to have any particular skills for anything other than parades. He keeps trying to plan parades but is ignored by everyone. For inexplicable reasons he is promoted to colonel and then lieutenant general. His demands for parades become more and more unreasonable; at one point he wants to embed stainless steel wires in the hips of his troops to keep them from swinging their arms any more than 12 inches during parades, because that's a thing. Finally his commander hits upon a solution - Scheisskopf can plan and schedule all the parades he wants as long as he cancels them at the last minute. That way he is happy, all the parade people are happy, and the troops under his command don't have to waste time marching up and down the square. And when he cancels them, he invariably blames someone he doesn't like for the cancellation, which he enjoys immensely. One of the last references to him in the book is after his final inexplicable promotion, when Colonel Cargill gets a phone call from him: ================== "Oh, my God!” he cried, as the phone fell from his fingers. “Do you know what he wants? He wants us to march! He wants everybody to march!” ================== I agree that the wall will never be built. But he can talk about it, and postpone it at the last minute, and blame other people for postponing it. He will be following in the footsteps of Scheisskopf. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #10 January 9, 2017 Quote He will be following in the footsteps of Scheisskopf. Scheisskopf literally means shithead in german. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #11 January 9, 2017 billvon>The literal wall, as described by Trump, will not be built. In Catch-22, there is a lieutenant named Scheisskopf. He doesn't seem to have any particular skills for anything other than parades. He keeps trying to plan parades but is ignored by everyone. For inexplicable reasons he is promoted to colonel and then lieutenant general. His demands for parades become more and more unreasonable; at one point he wants to embed stainless steel wires in the hips of his troops to keep them from swinging their arms any more than 12 inches during parades, because that's a thing. Finally his commander hits upon a solution - Scheisskopf can plan and schedule all the parades he wants as long as he cancels them at the last minute. That way he is happy, all the parade people are happy, and the troops under his command don't have to waste time marching up and down the square. And when he cancels them, he invariably blames someone he doesn't like for the cancellation, which he enjoys immensely. One of the last references to him in the book is after his final inexplicable promotion, when Colonel Cargill gets a phone call from him: ================== "Oh, my God!” he cried, as the phone fell from his fingers. “Do you know what he wants? He wants us to march! He wants everybody to march!” ================== I agree that the wall will never be built. But he can talk about it, and postpone it at the last minute, and blame other people for postponing it. He will be following in the footsteps of Scheisskopf. I absolutely love this - it's more than parades and walls, it's pretty much the entire public face of politics. anyone with a brain during the campaign would realize the 'wall' pitch was a PR stunt. At best, the taxpayers would pay for a huge 'public works' project (look how great that worked out for the previous pres). Then the economic misdirection and rationalization arguments would be made how the national economic impact resulted in less money being sent to mexico by illegals resulted in a net/net that could be argued it 'in effect' was paid for by those savings. weak, and nearly impossible prove or disprove. and this only if any structure is actually erected. (if not, then Trump's team would make arguments that the mere 'thought' of a wall going up would have a similar effect - we are probably already seeing this start....) so the left arguing 'against a wall' and the right arguing 'for a wall' were both just a bunch of shiny objects designed to pander to votes from people already on board their trains. I'm kind of hoping they try to save face and come up with economic plans and immigration policy that could be treated as a philosophical 'wall' - just so the taxpayers can avoid another round of a publics works fiasco. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 124 #12 January 9, 2017 Quoteanyone with a brain during the campaign would realize the 'wall' pitch was a PR stunt. But one of the many stunts that helped him win an election.....so your comment appears to go directly the the electorate that put him in office. As has been said in so many places - facts no longer matter in the USA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nolhtairt 0 #13 January 9, 2017 Oh I'm sure some semblance of a barrier will get built, whether its a concrete wall, or concerta wire-topped fencing, wherever the topography and population calls for. I just don't believe there will be an unbroken barrier from coast to coast. What will be interesting is if Trump can clamp down on the money being wired back home to Mexico or tax it heavily like he has promised. If Mexico would have done a better job improving their own quality of life, and its proven that the NAFTA agreement hasn't done jack squat, how is it the onus is on US to pay for control of the border to keep illegal immigrants from pouring across unchecked? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #14 January 9, 2017 QuoteIf Mexico would have done a better job improving their own quality of lifeOf course a big part of the problem is that all those factories moving to Mexico do so because they can pay their workers shit wages, and so increase their own profits. So for the average Mexican worker there may be more jobs but the pay is so low their quality of life has not significantly improved. Isn't that capitalism in action? Perhaps Mexico could/should have enforced a minimum wage that brought the standard of living up to US levels, but that would have eliminated the incentive for industries to move there in the first place. Also the US heavily subsidizes certain industries to the point where it is almost impossible to compete. US subsidies to corn farmers, for example, made US corn so cheap that over 10 million Mexican farmers were forced out of business. That's over 10 million people whose livelihood has been destroyed by US subsidies, yet those people still have to support themselves and their families. How is it a surprise that many of them end up coming to the US for work? Quote...how is it the onus is on US to pay for control of the border to keep illegal immigrants from pouring across unchecked? Who pays for locks on the doors to your house, or for security systems? If you want your house to be secure against thieves, don't you have to pay for that yourself? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #15 January 9, 2017 rehmwa anyone with a brain during the campaign "I love the poorly educated"; Trump, Feb 24, 2016... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 January 9, 2017 tkhayesQuoteanyone with a brain during the campaign would realize the 'wall' pitch was a PR stunt. But one of the many stunts that helped him win an election.....so your comment appears to go directly the the electorate that put him in office. As has been said in so many places - facts no longer matter in the USA. plenty of empty shallow stunts to go around. the people lap up bumper sticker politics ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #17 January 9, 2017 Quote how is it the onus is on US to pay for control of the border to keep illegal immigrants from pouring across unchecked? People actually asking questions like this is how Trump got elected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #18 January 9, 2017 QuoteOh I'm sure some semblance of a barrier will get built... Well, I'm sure there will be lots of lucrative contracts given to Trump's associates in the construction industry. Whether they will build anything remains to be seen. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #19 January 9, 2017 nolhtairtOh I'm sure some semblance of a barrier will get built... That already exists. There are a few places places along the border where a person can simply go from one side to the other with no impediment, but that's rarely what happens because it would be stupid because those places aren't travel corridors.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #20 January 9, 2017 nolhtairt If Mexico would have done a better job improving their own quality of life, and its proven that the NAFTA agreement hasn't done jack squat, how is it the onus is on US to pay for control of the border to keep illegal immigrants from pouring across unchecked? The first problem is blindly repeating bullshit as if it were true. Illegal Mexican immigrant numbers peaked in 2007. If they were "pouring across unchecked", how would their numbers be slightly declining? http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-trends/"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 January 9, 2017 DanGQuoteOh I'm sure some semblance of a barrier will get built... Well, I'm sure there will be lots of lucrative contracts given to Trump's associates in the construction industry. Whether they will build anything remains to be seen. It'll be a 'Green Energy' wall. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #22 January 9, 2017 >how is it the onus is on US to pay for control of the border to keep illegal >immigrants from pouring across unchecked? It's not. Illegal immigration has been falling since 2007 without needing any new walls or gates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 124 #23 January 10, 2017 All they did was have a recession...and they went home because they could not earn it here anymore. Well that and a scaled up enforcement against employers and the like. penalties are far more severe for employers that pay under the table. As well as massive deportation efforts, for which I will never understand why the Democrats were not up there touting that every single day of the campaign..... No trouble believing that we can make it difficult enough for them to want to go home Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #24 January 10, 2017 I'm just waiting for him to announce construction of a line of Casinos all the way across the border that you can only access from the Mexican side. That way Mexicans pay for it by gambling in the casinos. See, I'd be a better President than Trump."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #25 January 10, 2017 DanGQuoteOh I'm sure some semblance of a barrier will get built... Well, I'm sure there will be lots of lucrative contracts given to Trump's associates in the construction industry. Whether they will build anything remains to be seen. Like I said when he was a candidate, if he gets elected and starts building this wall I'm going to get in on that project because it'll be a boondoggle of such spectacular size that I'll be able retire from it. Monthly consultancy fees from an out-of-control public works project? Yes please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
