The final tally is in...

[wmw999 2,116]

In the individuals, education doesn't equal more money. But overall, yes it does. You're proof that above-average stick-to-it-iveness and drive can take you farther, just as smug laziness can make the smartest college graduate a loser, and a "I'll do the minimum" attitude makes for a marginal employee.

Drunk drivers don't always get into wrecks, but it still increases your chances of getting into one. And I doubt you think drunk driving is OK because you know someone who did it and still drove OK.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,620]

wmw999

In the individuals, education doesn't equal more money. But overall, yes it does. You're proof that above-average stick-to-it-iveness and drive can take you farther, just as smug laziness can make the smartest college graduate a loser, and a "I'll do the minimum" attitude makes for a marginal employee.

Drunk drivers don't always get into wrecks, but it still increases your chances of getting into one. And I doubt you think drunk driving is OK because you know someone who did it and still drove OK.

Wendy P.

Only 0.004% of Ford Pintos cremated their occupants, but we still think the Pintos had a serious defect in this respect.

The average American family has 1.1 children, but I've yet to meet anyone who actually has 1.1 children.

So yes, the behavior of individuals can be very different from the behavior of populations.

Or anecdote <> data.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

******>I thought it is funny that the states with a lot of the richest people were shut down
>by the states with the poorest people thanks to the EC, and that the left hates the
>rich they should really have liked the outcome of the election.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that the least educated people in the US made Trump the president, and that people with average or greater than average education voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.

In your mind they are the least educated but, in truth, they are the smartest.

Myself? I am tired of listening to educated idiots.....


Dunning and Kruger strike again.

I already explained why I do not listen to you.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,620]

rushmc

*********>I thought it is funny that the states with a lot of the richest people were shut down
>by the states with the poorest people thanks to the EC, and that the left hates the
>rich they should really have liked the outcome of the election.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that the least educated people in the US made Trump the president, and that people with average or greater than average education voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.

In your mind they are the least educated but, in truth, they are the smartest.

Myself? I am tired of listening to educated idiots.....


Dunning and Kruger strike again.

I already explained why I do not listen to you.

No surprise there, I've never spoken to you.

But it seems that you read what I write.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,380]

>what I hope for is a direction change and the hope the fed gets off our back and
>out of our pockets some.

Then you are gonna love this one:
==================
GOP considers holding off on repealing ObamaCare taxes
By Peter Sullivan - 12/21/16 05:16 PM EST

Congressional Republicans are considering holding off on repealing some of ObamaCare's taxes, according to lobbyists familiar with the discussions.

GOP lawmakers on the House Ways and Means Committee discussed the possibility of keeping some of the taxes in place during a retreat last week at the Library of Congress, the sources say.
===================

So they cancel your coverage - AND keep your money. A win-win for the GOP!

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>what I hope for is a direction change and the hope the fed gets off our back and
>out of our pockets some.

Then you are gonna love this one:
==================
GOP considers holding off on repealing ObamaCare taxes
By Peter Sullivan - 12/21/16 05:16 PM EST

Congressional Republicans are considering holding off on repealing some of ObamaCare's taxes, according to lobbyists familiar with the discussions.

GOP lawmakers on the House Ways and Means Committee discussed the possibility of keeping some of the taxes in place during a retreat last week at the Library of Congress, the sources say.
===================

So they cancel your coverage - AND keep your money. A win-win for the GOP!

Acually what I love about this is your enthusiastic tail wagging regergitation of stories like this

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 620]

Reading all of the writing in here that would have given me F grades in English is hurting my brain.
Specifically the ones calling out that less education is better.
It ain't.

[rushmc 18]

normiss

Reading all of the writing in here that would have given me F grades in English is hurting my brain.
Specifically the ones calling out that less education is better.
It ain't.

No one here made that claim. Fake news....... by you again.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 620]

So stopping at technical or certification level of jobs skills is NOT less education than college degrees?
Man have I been confused.

You really are special sometimes. Unreal.

[airdvr 197]

normiss

Reading all of the writing in here that would have given me F grades in English is hurting my brain.
Specifically the ones calling out that less education is better.
It ain't.

That sentiment is exactly what got us into this mess. How about a little reality. If you can't afford to go to college don't take out massive student loans. Go to a trade school...enlist in the military. Find some other way to learn a trade that will take you through life.

I'm working on a project right now. The wife has a PhD. and makes sure that everyone knows it. At first I was impressed. Upon further investigation a PhD. in Fashion is going anywhere in Northeast Ohio.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[normiss 620]

One of my best friends in the Navy was married to woman with multiple Marine Biologist degrees and was gainfully employed at the local Friendly restaurant.

Chasing your dreams is a wonderful thing, I hope it works for those that chose that path.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

That sentiment is exactly what got us into this mess. How about a little reality. If you can't afford to go to college don't take out massive student loans. Go to a trade school...enlist in the military. Find some other way to learn a trade that will take you through life.

Yes, and no. If your only goal is to earn a decent living, there are lots of options besides spending years and a ton of $$ in college. On the other hand if you have a burning passion to cure cancer (as one of many many possible examples) you really do have to invest the time and effort to acquire the knowledge base to do that. Depending on your chosen field, you might have to go all the way through the PhD and postdoctoral training just to be able to compete for the relatively few opportunities available. Just going through college is no guarantee of success of course, but not doing that takes you out of contention from the beginning. Turning your back on your passion to cure cure cancer and opting for training in air conditioning repair might result in a decent and honest income, but you might spend the rest of your life resenting having given up and "settled" rather than fight for your dream.

As a college professor, I suspect that most of my students have not really thought about why they are in college beyond the fact that that is what they were expected to do, by their parents or society. Others are obviously really engaged and are in school because they really want to learn. I also know that I am not smart enough to always tell who is who, and it's not my place to tell anyone they are wasting their time or money. Sometimes it's the "sleepers", maybe just late bloomers, who really take off. A big part of my job is to convey passion for the subject (as in my tag line). Just reciting facts to blank faces is the most trivial part of my job.

Also college should be about much more than "job training".

Merry Christmas,
Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[wmw999 2,116]

Thinking that education is a guarantee and that the only education comes from college is what got us into the mess. Thinking that the converse is that education is valueless won't make the technology and stuff that workers have to deal with any less complex, and trusting that the complex technology will always work (and therefore you only need to know how to operate it) is no better. That stuff breaks, or its programming doesn't reflect the real world, and the person with enough education or training to understand it will be the most valuable employee, or the boss.

There's nothing wrong with education for its own sake (like a degree in underwater basketweacing), but it's more of a luxury, to be enjoyed, rather than part of a path to a profession.

The biggest advantage to college is that it's easier there to get some of the enhancement classes on the way to something that is useful in your chosen profession. The other advantage is that sometimes that enhancement helps when the chosen profession turns out to be a dying or changing industry,'or you just realize you hate it.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,380]

> How about a little reality. If you can't afford to go to college don't take out massive student loans.
>Go to a trade school...enlist in the military. Find some other way to learn a trade that will take you
>through life.

No problem with that. Now a little more reality - you are, in general, going to be making less than your friends who have more education. If you are OK with that, then great.

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

> How about a little reality. If you can't afford to go to college don't take out massive student loans.
>Go to a trade school...enlist in the military. Find some other way to learn a trade that will take you
>through life.

No problem with that. Now a little more reality - you are, in general, going to be making less than your friends who have more education. If you are OK with that, then great.

An opinion from my experience, I have six years of college and hold a MA. I would have had a much better life, I believe, if I had gone to a tech school. My profession was, is, very low paying. Tradesmen in my family, along with my friends, made far more money than I. And, most of all, college educated people aren't always a better class of folks.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,380]

>I would have had a much better life, I believe, if I had gone to a tech school.

That might well be true. However, my statement stands - if you get less education, you are, IN GENERAL, going to be making less than your friends who have more education. If you are OK with that, then great.

Some data if you like:

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/median-weekly-earnings-by-education-gender-race-and-ethnicity-in-2014.htm

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

>I would have had a much better life, I believe, if I had gone to a tech school.

That might well be true. However, my statement stands - if you get less education, you are, IN GENERAL, going to be making less than your friends who have more education. If you are OK with that, then great.

Some data if you like:

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/median-weekly-earnings-by-education-gender-race-and-ethnicity-in-2014.htm

Whenever the opportunity arises and I counsel someone on life path choices, I always advise them not to rely on data and statistics. Choose a path with heart.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 3]

RonD1120

Whenever the opportunity arises and I counsel someone on life path choices, I always advise them not to rely on data and statistics. Choose a path with heart.

Which is about as useful as telling them they need to choose a path with (insert completely undefined word here).

Seriously. What the F does that even mean?

https://youtu.be/Ry8CpIg2fvU

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wmw999 2,116]

I think it means that you should, if possible, choose a career considering that you're going to spend a lot of time doing it, so it'd better suit your morals, personality and desired lifestyle. Personally, I think it's good advice. Not necessarily the "don't go to college" part, but the part about getting a job that you can integrate into your life, rather than one you have to integrate your life into, yeah, that's desirable.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,380]

>Whenever the opportunity arises and I counsel someone on life path choices, I
>always advise them not to rely on data and statistics. Choose a path with heart.

I definitely agree. If, in your heart, you want to read old English literature all day, and nothing else will fulfill you, then study that. But if you could be equally happy with old English literature or chemical engineering, choosing the engineering path will usually make you happier in the long run.

[quade 3]

Quote

I think it means that you should, if possible, choose a career considering that you're going to spend a lot of time doing it, so it'd better suit your morals, personality and desired lifestyle. Personally, I think it's good advice.

Well, that's one take on what "heart" means, I guess, but just the fact you said, "I think it means that . . . " it's still not defined in such a way it's going to make universal sense.

I also disagree with at least a third of it, in particular the part that says, "and desired lifestyle." I also have issues with "morals, personality," but to a lesser extent.

I mean, seriously, consider what you just said as a whole and consider if just based on those aspects alone you'd encourage a kid to take up acting as long as it met with their, "morals, personality and desired lifestyle."

It's a long shot at best, but my guess is not one actor in possibly tens of thousands has much going for them beyond, "morals, personality and desired lifestyle", yet they chase a ridiculous dream with almost no chance of success whatsoever.

So is that still sound advice?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,254]

RonD1120

Whenever the opportunity arises and I counsel someone on life path choices, I always advise them not to rely on data and statistics. Choose a path with heart.

Did you not pursue counselling because of your heart? Yet you say your life would have been better if you had chosen a trade just to make more money.

So you're advising people to do what you did even though it sounds like, if you had a do-over, you wouldn't do what you did?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 620]

Yet the discussion here is income vs. education, so choosing a career of your creams isn't the same measure.
While I have many friends in the skydiving industry VERY happily out their dream, sometimes it's all they can do to feed themselves.
While other friends...