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billvon

Russia swayed US election

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If you think it's all a NYT conspiracy, well they've done a good job. They've fooled the Senate as well!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/11/politics/russia-us-elections-2016/index.html

Trump and part of his team seem to think it's about him. But it isn't. It's about what Russia did or did not attempt to do.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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billvon

> Didnt you predict a Hillary win?

Yes, youdid. So did almost every polling organization out there. Something changed the outcome from the predictions; now we know what they were missing.



Thanks for proving an earlier point I was making.

But at least you think you know....
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

************He only hopes he is right......



Was there another time when a foreign country interfered with our election? I really don't know. Can you point out another time when this happened? I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, just asking.

None that I know of.

My point had nothing to with the past howerver. My point is the left is in so much denial over the election. Russian interference (if there really was any) would just help them continue to try and de-legitimize a Trump presidency.

You know there has to be some other reason than Hillary jost lost to a.better candidate. No.way. Cause any thinking person would not vote.for Trump normally. So it had to be the Russuians!

This appears to be all political to me at this piont anyway.

The presidential election is about politics? Who knew? ;)

Look, I'm a progressive liberal, and I'm not in denial about anything. Trump won. From my point of view, that sucks, but there's nothing to do but move forward. I think the Ruskies probably did throw a bit of a monkey wrench into things, but we've done this lots of times to other countries. And crying about it won't help. The Dem's just need to find a better candidate next time.

I apreciate your point of view.
Also
I hope the R's do better next time too.
That said I hope that both candidates are outsiders as well.

Both candidates were severely flawed. For Hillary, it was her husband that started the acceptance of outright lying beyond normal political spin in the US. When Bill's defense of lying to the US public was "it depends on what your definition of "is' is." The acceptance of outright lies was a new norm for politicians.

The next two years should result in some positive changes because the republicans have the power to move an agenda.

1. Tax changes for corporations... probably needed and good.
2. Pipeline approvals. Good

The bad.
1. Trump will be challenged everywhere and tested by adversaries because he has no fundamental political ideological center.
2. Stimulus spending, quantitative easing, all the new terms invented by the FED., the ECB, to define easy money. Mortgages the future of a country.
http://www.truthfulpolitics.com/http:/truthfulpolitics.com/comments/u-s-federal-debt-by-president-political-party/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=friendly%2Blinks&utm_campaign=twitter%2Bfl%2Bplugin

and

http://crfb.org/papers/promises-and-price-tags-preliminary-update

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billvon

> Didnt you predict a Hillary win?

Yes, he did. So did almost every polling organization out there. Something changed the outcome from the predictions; now we know what they were missing.



POLITICO had the following...it gives a different perspective if anyone is interested in a different perspective that might be outside the one they currently are holding onto.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/john-bolton-russia-hack-a-false-flag-232490

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Channman

***> Didnt you predict a Hillary win?

Yes, he did. So did almost every polling organization out there. Something changed the outcome from the predictions; now we know what they were missing.



POLITICO had the following...it gives a different perspective if anyone is interested in a different perspective that might be outside the one they currently are holding onto.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/john-bolton-russia-hack-a-false-flag-232490

Because Obama would want to do something that simultaneously shows Clinton in a bad light and comes under third party scrutiny? That's about as well researched as Trumps claim that it may have been someone laying in their bed that weighs 400 lbs.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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SkyDekker

If it is a false flag operation, James Clapper would have to be in on it.

What would be in it for James Clapper?

Doesn't make much sense.



Well I'm no expert in these matters...but If a Hacker is able to gain access to the DNC and or RNC emails...or for that matter any email address with any criminal / political intent, is it not possible they are also able to use Malware that leaves a Russian Fingerprint? Doing so would help direct any investigation away from them and or slow down the process.

Chicago Tribune has this article which provides additional insight between the Divisions between the CIA and FBI over motives.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-russian-election-tampering-cia-fbi-20161210-story.html

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but If a Hacker is able to gain access to the DNC and or RNC emails...or for that matter any email address with any criminal / political intent, is it not possible they are also able to use Malware that leaves a Russian Fingerprint? Doing so would help direct any investigation away from them and or slow down the process.



Wow, I am sure those idiots at CIA and FBI never thought of that....

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SkyDekker

Quote

but If a Hacker is able to gain access to the DNC and or RNC emails...or for that matter any email address with any criminal / political intent, is it not possible they are also able to use Malware that leaves a Russian Fingerprint? Doing so would help direct any investigation away from them and or slow down the process.



Wow, I am sure those idiots at CIA and FBI never thought of that....



So is your point then...Nobody knows who did it?

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Channman

***

Quote

but If a Hacker is able to gain access to the DNC and or RNC emails...or for that matter any email address with any criminal / political intent, is it not possible they are also able to use Malware that leaves a Russian Fingerprint? Doing so would help direct any investigation away from them and or slow down the process.



Wow, I am sure those idiots at CIA and FBI never thought of that....



So is your point then...Nobody knows who did it?

Uhm no.

I would think that the CIA and FBI were smart enough to think of this type of false flag and wouldn't simply disregard their opinions based on this scenario.

Would be great to see the actual evidence, though I doubt that for a lay person like myself it would shine much light.

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>Well I'm no expert in these matters...but If a Hacker is able to gain access to the DNC and or RNC
>emails...or for that matter any email address with any criminal / political intent, is it not possible they are
>also able to use Malware that leaves a Russian Fingerprint?

Or maybe the Russians knew that suspicion would fall on them, so they intentionally left very obvious fingerprints, relying on people to say "well, if it was Russia they would be better than that, there wouldn't be so many clues . . . ."

Occam's Razor, as always, is generally the best bet.

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billvon

>Well I'm no expert in these matters...but If a Hacker is able to gain access to the DNC and or RNC
>emails...or for that matter any email address with any criminal / political intent, is it not possible they are
>also able to use Malware that leaves a Russian Fingerprint?

Or maybe the Russians knew that suspicion would fall on them, so they intentionally left very obvious fingerprints, relying on people to say "well, if it was Russia they would be better than that, there wouldn't be so many clues . . . ."

Occam's Razor, as always, is generally the best bet.



"Occam's Razor"??? Had to look that one up. Amazing what you can learn here. It is possible this could be. I suppose we will know more in a few months, having this completed by end of POTUS term seems a bit fast.

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Knowing and working with a lot of the team over at CrowdStrike I have a lot of faith in their work. They really are among the best in the world at threat attribution due to their ability to take a long view of the recompiled code and looking for trace elements that while are hard to hide are impossible to cover completely. Looking at disasslembed code in tools like IDApro takes a really unique skill set and while I have started to learn the markers that are left most of them are too deep for me to identify at my current knowledge level. I know some of the team over there are former Agency and they all comment that the knowledge level internally at the three agencies doing this type of work are all decent but the knowledge level is different between all three. They each have their own specialities and each use a different level of evidence to make their case. FBI needs to have enough evidence that it could hold up in court to make its case, CIA takes data and tries to read between the lines to get a deeper story, NSA does the deepest analysis but also keeps the data to weaponize it if possible.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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billvon

>Well I'm no expert in these matters...but If a Hacker is able to gain access to the DNC and or RNC
>emails...or for that matter any email address with any criminal / political intent, is it not possible they are
>also able to use Malware that leaves a Russian Fingerprint?

Or maybe the Russians knew that suspicion would fall on them, so they intentionally left very obvious fingerprints, relying on people to say "well, if it was Russia they would be better than that, there wouldn't be so many clues . . . ."

Occam's Razor, as always, is generally the best bet.



What's his plan? Russians don't take a dumb, son, without a plan...
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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DJL

***>Well I'm no expert in these matters...but If a Hacker is able to gain access to the DNC and or RNC
>emails...or for that matter any email address with any criminal / political intent, is it not possible they are
>also able to use Malware that leaves a Russian Fingerprint?

Or maybe the Russians knew that suspicion would fall on them, so they intentionally left very obvious fingerprints, relying on people to say "well, if it was Russia they would be better than that, there wouldn't be so many clues . . . ."

Occam's Razor, as always, is generally the best bet.



What's his plan? Russians don't take a dumb, son, without a plan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb0QLxcvowk
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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quade

Quote

Bipartisan Senate Group Calls for Probe of Russian Hacking in US

A group of Democratic and Republican senators are calling for bipartisan support for an investigation into cyberattacks against the United States by foreign governments following reports of alleged Russian efforts to influence the 2016 presidential election.

Saying that cyberattacks by foreign governments pose "grave threats" to U.S. national security, the senators' statement said: "This cannot become a partisan issue. The stakes are too high for our country."

Two Democratic senators -- Chuck Schumer of New York and Jack Reed of Rhode Island joined two Republican senators -- John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina -- in issuing the statement.


Source:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bipartisan-senate-group-calls-probe-russian-hacking-us/story?id=44121931


McConnell backs them: http://time.com/4597792/mitch-mcconnell-strongly-condemns-russian-interference-in-2016-election/

And from Andy Borowitz:
"FUCK YOU TRUMP FOR MAKING ME AGREE WITH PEOPLE LIKE MITCH FUCKING MCCONNELL"
:D
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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So Russia was able to hack both parties' servers and get a lot of crap that both sides wanted to hide from the world.

Then they released more of the DNC crap that the DNC was hiding from us, than the RNC crap that the RNC was hiding from us.

ok.....fine. I'd rather have all of it. From both sides.

so we get some of the truth but not all of it.

still better than the lies and distortions and strawmen that both DNC and RNC were deliberately trying to feed us....

But the big complaint wasn't that there was a lot of info being hid. It's that the release of it wasn't even handed?


1 - It would be neat to see all the info being hidden from both teams. We'd never get that.
2 - I'd prefer that Russia stay out of it.
3 - Internet security sucks. I hope the CIA and the military (etc) have better security than our political orgs. Frankly I don't care about those guys - I hope my BANK and e-mail and Amazon has better.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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1 - It would be neat to see all the info being hidden from both teams. We'd never get that.
2 - I'd prefer that Russia stay out of it.
3 - Internet security sucks. I hope the CIA and the military (etc) have better security than our political orgs. Frankly I don't care about those guys - I hope my BANK and e-mail and Amazon has better.


Agreed to all the above. However, realize that your bank probably has worse security than the government servers that were hacked; the reason they are more secure in practice is that there is simply less motivation to hack them (i.e. fewer people care about your personal information than care about the influence they can exert on an election.)

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billvon

Quote

1 - It would be neat to see all the info being hidden from both teams. We'd never get that.
2 - I'd prefer that Russia stay out of it.
3 - Internet security sucks. I hope the CIA and the military (etc) have better security than our political orgs. Frankly I don't care about those guys - I hope my BANK and e-mail and Amazon has better.


Agreed to all the above. However, realize that your bank probably has worse security than the government servers that were hacked; the reason they are more secure in practice is that there is simply less motivation to hack them (i.e. fewer people care about your personal information than care about the influence they can exert on an election.)



This is what people understand the least about internet security, that the ability to bypass it's security has much to do with the motivation to do so. For example the Iphone was considered to be unbreakable until our own government basically but a bounty out on it. You can do some damage to a banking system but you're probably not going to make any money from it.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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As a network engineer for a major telco provider, it's funny to me how many networks we actually have, how many are known by corporate, how many are accessible by corporate, how many are entirely unknown to anyone other than the group of engineers that created it.
Sorry, back to streaming on a non-discoverable DSL route.
:)

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