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billvon

Russia swayed US election

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Have you read the title to this thread.

In the end it does not matter who got the info, how they got it and how it was passed on. That happened. We all know that.

The claim is the Russian swayed the election.

Bull shit.

Hillary and Podesta did it to themselves. THAT IS A FACT!

By being liars, conspiring with the media, cheating during debates, talking down to women, the LGBT community, minorities and on and on. (from DNC emails)



Still don't quite understand how your logic works.

You agree that the information released influenced voters.

There is absolutely no doubt that the Russians hacked them to get that information. There is indeed unanimous support for that in your intelligence agencies.

How can you then loudly proclaim the Russians had nothing to do with it and didn't sway the election?

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SkyDekker

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There is absolutely no doubt that the Russians hacked them to get that information.



:D


Just like there is no doubt you get paid to post.

I dunno. He's not all that good at it. I have my doubts.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

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There is absolutely no doubt that the Russians hacked them to get that information.



:D


Just like there is no doubt you get paid to post.

I dunno. He's not all that good at it. I have my doubts.

Given the intelligence level of the average Trump voter, he doesn't have to be all that good.

He just has to be persistent, consistent and repeat the narrative that they want to hear.

Standard techniques.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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He's leaving persistent fingerprints that aren't consistent with a professional internet troll. I believe he's simply a hobbyist.

Understand I have no intention of defending him, but also, let's not get carried away and give him some sort of "professional" status.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

He's leaving persistent fingerprints that aren't consistent with a professional internet troll. I believe he's simply a hobbyist.

Understand I have no intention of defending him, but also, let's not get carried away and give him some sort of "professional" status.



I finally unliked the "Vladimir Putin Fan Club" Facebook page because it was just so ridiculous. I did see that the majority of members were entirely fake. They didn't even do a good job at it. For example there was a woman who lived in Kenya but worked at West Point. If you clicked one level deeper to who their friends were they were all accounts in different countries with little activity.

The remaining members were people like ruskimc and royreader who just weren't capable of seeing through the propaganda but since it was against Obama and Clinton they lapped it up and shared it on their own pages.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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SkyDekker

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Who do you blame for leaving the car keys in the car and it getting stolen?

Insurance companies blame the owner.



Maybe, but the law blames the thief.



My car was stolen using the set of keys I left in the glove box. The insurance adjuster asked me not to do that anymore. But they paid the claim.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

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Who do you blame for leaving the car keys in the car and it getting stolen?

Insurance companies blame the owner.



Maybe, but the law blames the thief.



My car was stolen using the set of keys I left in the glove box. The insurance adjuster asked me not to do that anymore. But they paid the claim.

My estranged wife was an Insurance Adjuster. She often pointed out that policies can not be voided simply because of an Insureds stupidity. Which is why if you burn your house down because you deep-fried turkey in your living room, yes you are a dumbass. But a dumbass with coverage.

John

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>My estranged wife was an Insurance Adjuster. She often pointed out that policies can
>not be voided simply because of an Insureds stupidity.

. . . provided said activity is not excluded. If the policy is for a commercial space, and someone burns it down frying their turkey for Christmans, they may be SOL.

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DJL

***He's leaving persistent fingerprints that aren't consistent with a professional internet troll. I believe he's simply a hobbyist.

Understand I have no intention of defending him, but also, let's not get carried away and give him some sort of "professional" status.



I finally unliked the "Vladimir Putin Fan Club" Facebook page because it was just so ridiculous. I did see that the majority of members were entirely fake. They didn't even do a good job at it. For example there was a woman who lived in Kenya but worked at West Point. If you clicked one level deeper to who their friends were they were all accounts in different countries with little activity.

The remaining members were people like ruskimc and royreader who just weren't capable of seeing through the propaganda but since it was against Obama and Clinton they lapped it up and shared it on their own pages.

Good post. thanks

For Russian citizens I don't necessary blame them. Putin has eliminated all opposition. Some journalists he ordered killed. He shut down newspapers and TV opposition. The entire Russian state media apparatus operates to put a pro Putin, pro Kremlin spin on any news event.

Russia's entire history has been counterproductive to democracy because many Russians believe it takes a "strongman" to lead such a huge country with so many diverse ethnic groups.Many Russians still blame Gorbachev.

""Why do so many Russians hate you?" Gorbachev was asked in a SPIEGEL interview exactly two years ago. He thought for almost an entire minute before finally answering: "People will probably stop hating me only after my death." But then he shook his head and corrected himself. "I don't have that impression. On the contrary: I've felt supported during all these difficult years."

That, though, is not entirely accurate as was made clear once again on Wednesday. Despite the erroneous story of his death being quickly deleted, it triggered a wave of comments across the country -- a wave of hate. It was a mixture of political contempt, hostile invective and incomprehensible insults.

Most of them centered on Gorbachev's central political accomplishment: Perestroika. As the general secretary of the Soviet Union, Gorbachev spent six years trying to open the country to the West and modernize its economy. But in 1991, the Soviet Union quietly collapsed -- an event that many in Russia still find painful. And Gorbachev, many believe, is to be blamed. Not a few think that he was acting on orders from the Americans."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/false-story-about-gorbachev-death-unleashes-wave-of-hate-a-915670.html

Many Russians dream of the day again when waves of shoddily built nuclear submarines again sail the seas. As a sign to the world that Russia means something. Is relevant to the world.

Until then they will use 1970-80 era Soviet bombers to support Arab dictators by bombing hospitals and cities.

There is a story in Spitnik International(Dec. 25, 2016) that offers great insight into Russian propaganda for home markets. Here is a quote from the story attributed to Putin.

"A quarter of a century ago, on the night of December 25, 1991, the red flag was lowered from the Kremlin cupola – and the USSR was no more. Arguably what President Putin later described, in 2005, as "the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century" doubled as the most comprehensive fall of an empire in modern history....

Way beyond the historical archives of Marxism-Leninism suddenly being besieged by graphic, glitzy signs of conspicuous consumption, what developed on a personal level was a “real drama” (again, Putin’s words) of millions of Russians suddenly thrown out of the federation, dispersed among 12 new republics scattered across Eurasia...

The world went unipolar in a flash; one form of totalitarianism disappeared to the profit of another, supported by two key pillars; NATO, propelled to the role of global Robocop, and the exorbitant privilege of printing the US dollar as a fiat currency. Breathless neo-Hegelian functionaries of Empire hastily proclaimed the end of History. To widespread neocon glee, that seemed to erase the 1987 verdict of Yale historian Paul Kennedy in The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers, who stressed that the global American empire, like all empires that came before, was declining...

The go-go 1990s were heady times. Bill Clinton gleefully implemented the neocon Wolfowitz doctrine. Russia was raped by a bunch of Western remote-controlled oligarchs. NATO progressively reveled in its deeper role, as Lord Ismay had conceptualized, of “keeping the Americans in, the Russians out and the Germans down”.

https://sputniknews.com/columnists/201612251048980320-ussr-eurasian-century/?utm_source=adfox_site_41917&utm_medium=adfox_banner_1922508&utm_campaign=adfox_campaign_626010&ues=1

Its unfortunate that trump gets his news from Breitbart.com. He could learn something by reading news and Russian positions. Straight from the Russian source.

The above story allows a certain understanding of Royreader8812. About how the Russian mind is crafted by the FSB.

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Back in the Gorbachev days, and even when Yeltsin was in office, I thought the US was missing an open invitation to help remodel Russia into a much more Western-friendly society. Unfortunately it seems that keeping Russia as a bogyman was more useful to the US establishment and to NATO. Clearly some bogyman was necessary to justify the level of military spending in the US, and to justify NATO's continued existence, and at the time there really was nothing available to replace Russia in that role. So, an opportunity was lost, and now we have Putin, an entirely predictable outcome.

I often think that the most devastating thing that could happen to the US is an actually peaceful world. Imagine a world where there is no justification for maintaining a ginormous military, no need to spend trillions on fighter planes or nuclear submarines. Could a peace-time economy possibly generate enough jobs to replace the military, or enough business to keep Lockheed-Martin and all the other defense-related industries in business?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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normiss

That's pretty comical given the expansionist nature of Russia.
Willing to give up California so the Russians have another warm water port?



We were all probably a bit enthusiastic for everyone wanting our Western versions of Capitalism and Democracy since our only knowledge of them was bread lines, furry hats, and the crumbling Eastern Bloc. Everyone forgets the lengths they were willing to go for exactly that, warm water ports, and that's dating back pre-WWII through several Czars. That's partially why they never would have left Japan had they set foot at the end of the war since Vladilovstok is still ice-bound through-out most of the year

This is especiallly why Russia would be more than happy if it could sail it's commerce and Navy through Istanbul without NATO in the way and why they're happy to provide just the sort of air defense that stopped Syria from building reactors just a decade ago.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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normiss

That's pretty comical given the expansionist nature of Russia.
Willing to give up California so the Russians have another warm water port?

Gorbychev wasn't an expansionist. We had an opportunity to work with Russia when they wanted to integrate with Western democracies. We told them to piss off, their economy collapsed, and they reverted to their strong-man ways. So now we get to deal with Putin, who (despite being the object of Trump's admiration) is no friend of the US or the West in general.

Giving up California was never on the table. Have you been taking debating lessons from Brenthutch?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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It's party time at the Kremlin:
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U.S. intercepts capture senior Russian officials celebrating Trump win

The Washington Post
By Adam Entous and Greg Miller January 5 at 6:05 PM

Senior officials in the Russian government celebrated Donald Trump’s victory over Hillary Clinton as a geopolitical win for Moscow, according to U.S. officials who said that American intelligence agencies intercepted communications in the aftermath of the election in which Russian officials congratulated themselves on the outcome.

The ebullient reaction among high-ranking Russian officials — including some who U.S. officials believe had knowledge of the country’s cyber campaign to interfere in the U.S. election — contributed to the U.S. intelligence community’s assessment that Moscow’s efforts were aimed at least in part at helping Trump win the White House.

Other key pieces of information gathered by U.S. spy agencies include the identification of “actors” involved in delivering stolen Democratic emails to the WikiLeaks website, and disparities in the levels of effort Russian intelligence entities devoted to penetrating and exploiting sensitive information stored on Democratic and Republican campaign networks.

Those and other data points are at the heart of an unprecedented intelligence report being circulated in Washington this week that details the evidence of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign and catalogues other cyber operations by Moscow against U.S. election systems over the past nine years.

The classified document, which officials said is over 50 pages, was delivered to President Obama on Thursday, and it is expected to be presented to Trump in New York on Friday by the nation’s top spy officials, including Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. and CIA Director John Brennan.
=====================

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It is probably fake news but, I just read an analysis that Hillary's popular vote total came from California. She could be president of California. I'm OK with that. Having lived there for two years I wouldn't care if all y'all formed your own private utopia.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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>It is probably fake news but, I just read an analysis that Hillary's popular vote total came from California.

Yep.

If you eliminate the votes of Californians, Trump wins the popular vote by about 1 million.

If you eliminate the votes of the least educated Americans, Clinton wins in a landslide - both the popular vote and the presidency.

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RonD1120

It is probably fake news but, I just read an analysis that Hillary's popular vote total came from California. She could be president of California. I'm OK with that. Having lived there for two years I wouldn't care if all y'all formed your own private utopia.



Since you post here I assume you know the basics of the internet. You're literally one vaguely worded search away from seeing what the numbers were instead of just regurgitating whatever you read on Red State.

http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174

Clinton Trump
65,844,610 62,979,636

And the Cali Split:
CA 8,753,788 4,483,810
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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billvon

>

If you eliminate the votes of the least educated Americans, Clinton wins in a landslide - both the popular vote and the presidency.



Back this up please.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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RonD1120

It is probably fake news but, I just read an analysis that Hillary's popular vote total came from California.



Stated like that it's obvious nonsense. Hillary's popular vote total came from the entire US.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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