Russia swayed US election

[Phil1111 908]

troll

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Four in one day doesn't require "evidence". If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, shits like a duck. its a duck.

My sources have been quoted already. None of which are the "Syrian observatory for human rights".

I'd suggest that you look out the window in the Urals, the suburbs of Damascus or wherever you call home. As I'm not to likely to "you can go slap yourself in face first being an asshole."

You should brush up on your English at the same time.

[Royreader8812 0]

Four hospitals being targeted, does not mean it was Russian aircraft doing it. There is a war going on.

You can call me a troll all you wish. But you will find the western lie is falling to pieces. And there are millions out there that don't believe a word the establishment media says anymore.

The election of Trump reiterates that perfectly and gets us back on topic.

I am looking forward to seeing the embarrassment of the spokesperson speaking at the state department breifing on Monday. I get my information from many sources including them. Those briefings become entertainment when you have a bigger picture.

They just wasted billions of dollars and killed thousands more people in yet another failure.

But you just carry on soaking up the spin.

[jakee 1,254]

Royreader8812

But you will find the western lie is falling to pieces. And there are millions out there that don't believe a word the establishment media says anymore.

The election of Trump reiterates that perfectly and gets us back on topic.

There are millions of Americans out there who don't believe a word that doctors say about vaccines anymore. But that doesn't mean anything except that there are millions of morons.

There are millions of Americans out there who don't believe a word that biologists say about evolution. But that doesn't mean anything either, except that there are millions of morons.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[gowlerk 1,902]

Quote

Four hospitals being targeted, does not mean it was Russian aircraft doing it.

Uhh....which of the other players have aircraft and ordinance to conduct bombings? The "establishment media" is actually a very fine example of competition at it's best. There is no one media, the media is a chaotic mix of viewpoints and proponents. All shouting to be heard above the din. There is actually no one who does not believe what the media says. There are however many people who choose which brand of media to listen to and believe. You believe "the media" yourself. How about you tell us where you get your information, the information you do believe I mean?

Are you a conspiracy theorist by chance?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Phil1111 908]

gowlerk

Quote

Four hospitals being targeted, does not mean it was Russian aircraft doing it.

Uhh....which of the other players have aircraft and ordinance to conduct bombings? The "establishment media" is actually a very fine example of competition at it's best. There is no one media, the media is a chaotic mix of viewpoints and proponents. All shouting to be heard above the din. There is actually no one who does not believe what the media says. There are however many people who choose which brand of media to listen to and believe. You believe "the media" yourself. How about you tell us where you get your information, the information you do believe I mean?

Are you a conspiracy theorist by chance?

My guess a ip address in Russia as he makes reference to "But you will find the western lie is falling to pieces" and "I am looking forward to seeing the embarrassment of the spokesperson speaking at the state department briefing on Monday."

I don't know who gets their info from direct broadcasts of the US state dept., has poor command and comprehension of English. Yet attributes, presumably some event in Syria to "They just wasted billions of dollars and killed thousands more people in yet another failure.''

Anyway back to the subject. Vladimir and his apparatchiks need an appropriate response.

I do blame President Obama for a weak policy and history of appeasement of Assad, Putin, Hezbollah and the Syrian situation. He is so terrified of additional entanglements that he has broadcast US weakness in this entire affair.

"How to Wage Hybrid War on the Kremlin
[Max Boot]
Max Boot December 13, 2016

Vladimir Putin’s tenure as Russia’s dictator has been dedicated to twin interlocking goals: to enhance his own power and wealth and that of the country he controls. The more powerful Russia becomes, after all, the more powerful its president becomes, too. In pursuit of more influence, Putin has tried to rebuild the Russian armed forces from a force of low-quality conscripts equipped with weapons that don’t work to a high-quality professional force with cutting-edge weapons. That transformation, only partially complete, has been shown off in Syria, which Putin has used as a showcase for systems including sleek Kalibr cruise missiles and the smoke-belching aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov. But as befits an old KGB man, Putin’s heart appears to lie more with “deniable” covert operations rather than with overt muscle-flexing.

Putin has become notorious for using “little green men” — Russian intelligence operatives and Spetsnaz (special forces) in civilian clothing — to infiltrate Ukrainian territory and start an uprising among the Russian-speaking population. And it worked: Russia annexed Crimea and has gained de facto control over much of eastern Ukraine. This tactic of undertaking barely disguised aggression has become known as “hybrid warfare,” and it has consistently left the West wrong-footed because Putin is careful to avoid crossing the normal red lines.

The West has been even more flummoxed by Putin’s campaign of political warfare designed to subvert anti-Russian regimes and replace them with more pliable leaders. The most high-profile manifestation of this effort was the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and other Democratic targets in an attempt, as the CIA has now concluded, to swing the U.S. presidential election toward Donald Trump, the most pro-Russian politician in America since the heyday of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s agriculture secretary, Henry Wallace. Russian internet trolls were also busy putting out anti-Clinton, pro-Trump stories, many of them demonstrably false.[Hey Royreader8812 perhaps he was talking about you!]

Putin’s interference in the election was probably not the decisive factor (for that, blame FBI Director James Comey’s diligent efforts), but in an election decided by 100,000 votes in three states it is impossible to say what made a difference and what did not. Certainly Trump, who once called on Putin to hack his opponent, acts like a man with a guilty conscience, furiously denying not only that the hacks were designed to help him but that they were the work of the Kremlin at all. Putin will get his payoff if the new administration decides to lift the sanctions imposed on Russia after its invasion of Ukraine — something that is more likely if ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson, to whom Putin awarded an Order of Friendship, is confirmed as secretary of state.

Putin’s campaign of subversion and disinformation is hardly limited to the United States, however. It has been playing out across Europe for years, with Moscow supporting far-left and far-right parties that are united by their loathing for the European Union and NATO, the two institutions that Putin rightly sees as the chief impediments to his hopes of resurrecting the Russian Empire or at least a Russian sphere of influence in Eastern Europe.

Russia has been most blatant in supporting France’s far-right National Front, which received an 11 million euro loan in 2014 from a Moscow-based bank and wants another 27 million euros to fight next year’s elections. The French presidential election in the spring is a can’t-lose proposition for Putin since both of the leading candidates — Marine Le Pen of the National Front and the mainstream conservative nominee, former Prime Minister François Fillon — favor closer ties with Moscow.

In Germany, Angela Merkel looks likely to win re-election and maintain a relatively hard line against the Kremlin, but WikiLeaks has just come out with a massive leak of German intelligence documents, many of them relating to controversial cooperation with U.S. intelligence agencies. This is widely seen as a Russian attempt to undermine Merkel, as WikiLeaks has long been a favorite bulletin board for Russia’s intelligence services. In Montenegro, the Russians are accused of going even further in orchestrating a political campaign against the pro-Western government of Prime Minister Milo Dukanovic prior to the Oct. 16 election. When that didn’t work, the Russians apparently tried to launch a coup to overthrow the government, employing Serbian operatives with close ties to the Kremlin.

Little wonder that Alex Younger, the typically secretive head of Britain’s MI6 intelligence service, just gave an unusual speech warning that hostile powers such as Russia, which are utilizing “means as varied as cyberattacks, propaganda, or subversion of democratic process … represent a fundamental threat to our sovereignty. They should be a concern to all those who share democratic values.” His words are echoed by Maj. Gen. Gunnar Karlson, the chief of Sweden’s main foreign intelligence agency, who warns that Russian subversion “is a serious threat because in different ways [the Russians] can push themselves into the very foundations of a democracy and influence democratic decision-making.” Russia is currently running a pressure campaign to dissuade Sweden, which is alarmed by growing Russian intrusions into its sovereign waters and airspace, from joining NATO.

It’s easy enough to decry Russian interference, but it’s hard to know what to do about it. As a first step, it is imperative to document and expose Kremlin machinations, which is why it’s important to probe the hacking of the U.S. election. Congressional investigations, as called for by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan, would be one possible approach, but the failed Benghazi committee shows the dangers of congressional grandstanding and partisanship. A better approach, because it would be more serious and nonpartisan, would be an independent commission modeled on the one that probed 9/11; it could be headed by former CIA Directors Michael Hayden and Leon Panetta.

But public exposure alone is not enough to make Putin cease and desist; indeed, documenting Russia’s schemes could actually enhance his aura of power by showing how cleverly he manipulates his adversaries. President Barack Obama has been shamefully derelict in making Putin pay a price for his aggression. Although his administration has threatened retaliation against Russia, he has not, insofar as we know, delivered. “We’d have all these circular meetings,” one senior State Department official told the New York Times, “in which everyone agreed you had to push back at the Russians and push back hard. But it didn’t happen.” Among reasons for inaction, the Times cites the president’s “fear of escalating a cyberwar, and concern that the United States needed Russia’s cooperation in negotiations over Syria.” (As if Russia had any intention of cooperating with the United States in Syria!) His failure to more actively oppose Russian efforts during the campaign may have cost Hillary Clinton the election. It’s hard to imagine Donald Trump, the beneficiary of Russia’s cyberattacks, doing much about it, but Obama still has a few weeks in office to act.

Possible responses can run the gamut from further sanctions — including financial and travel freezes on individuals responsible for the hacking — to retaliation in kind. Putin likes leaking Western emails. How would he like it if the National Security Agency leaked the communications between him and his cronies? Or if the U.S. intelligence community released details about his widely rumored overseas bank accounts? This could undermine his hold on power by puncturing his aura of self-righteousness and could even lead to asset freezes that would punish him in the pocketbook.

Beyond all of that, the West in general and the United States in particular will have to figure out how to wage political warfare on its own. That is something that we did in the early days of the Cold War when the CIA was busy helping anti-communists win elections around the world from Italy to the Philippines — and funding Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Encounter magazine, and other organizations to win the battle for “hearts and minds.” Today, Russia, Iran, China, and other closed societies are potentially vulnerable to a campaign designed to empower dissidents, discredit the ruling elite, and help ordinary people get accurate and uncensored news.

Putin suspects the United States of waging just such a campaign against himself and his allies; he holds the CIA responsible for the 2005 and 2014 uprisings in Ukraine that defeated pro-Russian leader Viktor Yanukovych and the 2003 uprising in Georgia, which brought Mikheil Saakashvili to power. The irony is that, beyond the overt and benign democracy promotion efforts of the National Endowment for Democracy, Washington has done little to undermine anti-Western leaders or to promote pro-Western alternatives.

It is high time for that to change. The United States needs to revive the political warfare skills it once possessed and that have since atrophied, as Michael Doran and I argued in a 2013 Policy Innovation Memorandum for the Council on Foreign Relations. Putin has shown himself to be a master of this game; other adversaries, including Iran and the Islamic State, also actively wage political warfare. We don’t have the luxury of saying that it’s beneath us to play that game. Nothing less than the future of democracy is at stake."
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/wage-hybrid-war-kremlin-222813395.html

This was originally published in the website/Journal Foreign Policy but the link to yahoo is made because the FP journal requires membership to read from its site.

[Royreader8812 0]

https://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/00-vitaly-podvitsky-the-russians-did-it-all-2016.jpg?w=2100&h=1560

No surprises here, we have come full circle and this is exactly why Trump got elected.

People don't believe it anymore as much as you want to cling onto your propaganda, it is all bullshit.

The most powerful military in the world and cannot win a war.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ebE3GJfGhfA

http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/revealed-the-real-fake-news-list


Need I go on.

Yes I watch state department briefings. They lie enough as it is, why wait for several middle men to get their hands on the nformation.

Chinese whispers, would expect a good description of many reports.

When American aircraft hit doctors without boarders hospitals it is a mistake. When American aircraft strike Syrian military positions allowing ISIS to advance and occupy a region, it is a mistake. When American military supplies fall in the lap of ISIS, it is a mistake.

Well all these mistakes and the funding,training and arming of fundamental Islamists with the US military budget all go to waste and Russia wins. Is it not a suprise that there is some butthurt going on.

Seriously.

Need I even bring up the slaughter in Yemen?

[quade 3]

Royreader8812

Need I go on.

No. You really, really do not need to go on.

Especially since that's not the topic of discussion in this thread.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Royreader8812 0]

I am pretty sure Trump campaigned on working with Russia on defeating fundamental Islamists...

I am also pretty sure those comments received Cheers from thousands...

Therefore one can deduct that Russia swayed the US election by taking action on Syria...

Bit you can go on form your gender neutral safe place and cuddly blanket and suggest otherwise.

[gowlerk 1,902]

Quote

Bit you can go on form your gender neutral safe place and cuddly blanket and suggest otherwise.

You sure talk tough. You must be right. In my experience talky talky bullshitting anonymous posters like you are never wrong.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Phil1111 908]

gowlerk

Quote

Bit you can go on form your gender neutral safe place and cuddly blanket and suggest otherwise.

You sure talk tough. You must be right. In my experience talky talky bullshitting anonymous posters like you are never wrong.

It has nothing to do with tough. $1000 a month(er, 62,151 rubles a mo. at todays exchange rates) will make the payments on the little Abkhazia dacha. With some left over for some quality borscht. With real sour cream on top. Not some cheap low fat milk!

Lets give Royreader8812 credit where credit is due. He earned the couple kilos of good kolbasa for his efforts here. What he should do is move onto another site... maybe scuba diving. Take another English course, the Kremlin-Putin-KGB desinformatsiya courses 201 and 301. Then try again. Perhaps he can upgrade and fund a Sochi ski condo instead. Where he might even run into his boss on a lift(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RPyycvflrQ.

"The Kremlin's Troll Army
Moscow is financing legions of pro-Russia Internet commenters. But how much do they matter?

..."I know a lot of Muscovites have little dachas in Abkhazia," he wrote in a recent post. "But could these Muscovites have afforded their little dachas if they hadn't gotten rid of the Georgians and turned a flourishing region into cheap fucking shit, like they're doing now in Crimea?" ...

"This is a category of people who I'm sure are paid some small amount of money, maybe $1,000 a month or less. But they're running legitimate blogs, they keep themselves busy. Sometimes they even publish something interesting. But when it's necessary, they also spread 'deza'"—shorthand for disinformation.

...The Kremlin, which has waged a massive disinformation campaign aimed at legitimizing Russia's annexation of Crimea and support for separatists in eastern Ukraine, has employed so-called "troll armies" to invade online territories armed with pro-Moscow rhetoric.

A June article by Max Seddon of BuzzFeed reported the Kremlin was spending millions of dollars to pay English-speaking Russians to promote President Vladimir Putin and his policies in U.S. media like Fox News broadcasting and The Huffington Post and Politico news sites. Trolls are reportedly expected to manage multiple fake accounts and post on news articles 50 times a day, often with sentiments as simplistic as "Putin makes Obama look stupid and weak!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-kremlins-troll-army/375932/

[gowlerk 1,902]

So it's just like judo. Turn your opponents power against him. Isn't Putin a judo expert?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

gowlerk

So it's just like judo. Turn your opponents power against him. Isn't Putin a judo expert?

Russia (and the Soviet Union) have been very good at the propaganda thing for quite a while.

They are doing a pretty good job of it now.

THIS article does a pretty good job of explaining what they do. IIRC, Quade linked it a while back, when we had one of these folks on here promoting the Russians during the Ukraine invasion. He was big on claiming that the Ukraine government was all fascists & Nazis.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Croc 0]

gowlerk

Quote

America wants leadership that is not Democrat, left leaning progressive liberal socialists.

Actually, America indicated a preference for HRC at the ballot box. The electoral college prefers Trump. America is extremely divided. What America needs is a strong enemy to unite it. Fortunately Trump is working on turning China into just that.

Hmmm. It seems that America has had a strong enemy (strong enough that America can't win) for fifteen years. Why has that not united America?

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[gowlerk 1,902]

Quote

Hmmm. It seems that America has had a strong enemy (strong enough that America can't win) for fifteen years. Why has that not united America?

Can you name that enemy?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[brenthutch 383]

gowlerk

Quote

Hmmm. It seems that America has had a strong enemy (strong enough that America can't win) for fifteen years. Why has that not united America?

Can you name that enemy?

That is easy, CANADA!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DBpgcZ1zYJs&autoplay=1

[billvon 2,380]

>No. CA indicated a preference for HRC. The rest of the country picked Trump.

The most uneducated, racist people in the country chose Trump. The rest of the country chose Clinton.

(just as accurate.)

[billvon 2,380]

>Four hospitals being targeted, does not mean it was Russian aircraft doing it . . . .
>the western lie is falling to pieces.

Trump has done something I thought couldn't be done - turned Republicans into pro-communist Russian apologists.

[ryoder 1,380]

billvon

>Four hospitals being targeted, does not mean it was Russian aircraft doing it . . . .
>the western lie is falling to pieces.

Trump has done something I thought couldn't be done - turned Republicans into pro-communist Russian apologists.

Somewhere, "Tail-Gunner Joe" is spinning in his grave.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

>Four hospitals being targeted, does not mean it was Russian aircraft doing it . . . .
>the western lie is falling to pieces.

Trump has done something I thought couldn't be done - turned Republicans into pro-communist Russian apologists.

News flash! Russia is no longer communist!

[normiss 620]

psst...tell that to The CPRF as well as Putin.

[billvon 2,380]

And the kickbacks to Putin begin:
===========================
Leak reveals Rex Tillerson was director of Bahamas-based US-Russian oil firm

Documents from tax haven will raise more questions over suitability of Donald Trump’s pick for US secretary of state

Luke Harding and Hannes Munzinger

Sunday 18 December 2016 13.00 EST
The Guardian

Rex Tillerson, the businessman nominated by Donald Trump to be the next US secretary of state, was the long-time director of a US-Russian oil firm based in the tax haven of the Bahamas, leaked documents show.

Tillerson – the chief executive of ExxonMobil – became a director of the oil company’s Russian subsidiary, Exxon Neftegas, in 1998. His name – RW Tillerson – appears next to other officers who are based at Houston, Texas; Moscow; and Sakhalin, in Russia’s far east.

The leaked 2001 document comes from the corporate registry in the Bahamas. It was one of 1.3m files given to the Germany newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung by an anonymous source. The registry is public but details of individual directors are typically incomplete or missing entirely.

Though there is nothing untoward about this directorship, it has not been reported before and is likely to raise fresh questions over Tillerson’s relationship with Russia ahead of a potentially stormy confirmation hearing by the US senate foreign relations committee. Exxon said on Sunday that Tillerson was no longer a director after becoming the company’s CEO in 2006.

ExxonMobil’s use of offshore regimes – while legal – may also jar with Trump’s avowal to put “America first”.

Tillerson’s critics say he is too close to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, and that his appointment could raise potential conflicts of interest.

ExxonMobil is the world’s largest oil company and has for a long time been eyeing Russia’s vast oil and gas deposits. Tillerson currently has Exxon stock worth more than $200m.

Since his nomination, Tillerson’s Russia ties have become a source of bipartisan concern. In 2013, Putin awarded him the Russian Order of Friendship. Tillerson is close to Igor Sechin, the head of Russian state oil company Rosneft and the de facto second most powerful figure inside the Kremlin. A hardliner, Sechin is ex-KGB.

Tillerson’s award followed a 2011 deal between ExxonMobil and Rosneft to explore the Kara Sea, in Russia’s Arctic.
=============================

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>No. CA indicated a preference for HRC. The rest of the country picked Trump.

The most uneducated, racist people in the country chose Trump. The rest of the country chose Clinton.

(just as accurate.)

Now you resort to trolling.

Nice...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,380]

>Now you resort to trolling.

You excluded Californians from your count.

I excluded the least educated from my count.

Why am I trolling, but you are not?

[brenthutch 383]

You may now add "looser" to your count.

[gowlerk 1,902]

Quote

Now you resort to trolling.

Nice...

Is that the sound of a bell going off in Marc's head? Are you beginning to understand the meaning of trolling? No, I doubt it.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.