Morons and Their Flags

[skinnay 0]

If you're upset by someone burning a flag you need to get a life. It's funny how the uneducated white vote suddenly abandons their love for the constitution when something gets under their thin skin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/11/29/trump-suggests-loss-of-citizenship-or-jail-for-those-who-burn-u-s-flags/

[rehmwa 2]

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If you're upset by someone burning a flag you need to get a life.

Someone can get upset. I don't care. What they can't do is try to force their 'upset' into ridiculous laws on others that disagree. We have enough people that think that every single opinion they have needs to be validated with force of law over the wills of others.


To me this should be strictly about private property.

Your flag - do what you want with it.

Not your flag - it's not yours, leave it alone. Already laws on the books about vandalism, theft, and arson. No more are needed just for a single specific scenario. (just to make some demographic happy).


It's not really about speech, it's about property and independence from government.
But if it ever would get to a major court, they'd likely try it on free speech, and I think that's a weak argument, or at least a 2nd level one vs the property one. Speech gets more press.

Personal opinion on flag burning? I think it's idiotic and not respectful, and I would choose not to. But that does NOT trump my philosophy on private property and personal choice to try and push that on others.
If one chooses (and this must be protected) and one wants to be an asshole and show they have no class and resort to defiling their own property instead of verbalizing a coherent statement, then that's one's option. I'm fine with it and happy to be able to clearly see that person's defect.


of course - if enough people get outraged over that tweet, then maybe the usual crowds will back off a little about who is getting interviewed for what right now

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[gowlerk 1,613]

Yes, very nice distraction and piece of media manipulation. WaPo just buys right in. Trumped again.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[tigra 0]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain .........

Another sideshow to divert attention from real issues.

[DanG 1]

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But if it ever would get to a major court, they'd likely try it on free speech...

Well, it has been to the Supreme Court, and they ruled on it based on the free speech argument. BTW, Alito voted that flag burning was protected speech.

- Dan G

[billvon 1,951]

>It's not really about speech, it's about property and independence from
>government.

Good point. I agree; it's more about property than free speech, although it has elements of both. If it was protected on the basis of property rights, though, I'd worry that the US government would then nationalize flags - basically claim that the US owned all US flags, but they can still be bought and sold like anything else. That way they could go after someone for destroying US government property.

Easy solution for someone like Trump, but a very, very bad precedent to set.

[Elisha 1]

skinnay

If you're upset by someone burning a flag you need to get a life. It's funny how the uneducated white vote suddenly abandons their love for the constitution when something gets under their thin skin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/11/29/trump-suggests-loss-of-citizenship-or-jail-for-those-who-burn-u-s-flags/

I'm not so bothered by flag burning, but I think it is very close to "hate speech" in the eyes of many - very justifiably so. Maybe all POC need to just get over themselves then when anything even perceived as offensive or discriminatory is directed at them.

[SkyDekker 910]

Interesting to note that Hillary Clinton sponsored a bill making flag burning illegal. Fines up to $100,000 and up to one year in jail....

[quade 2]

SkyDekker

Interesting to note that Hillary Clinton sponsored a bill making flag burning illegal. Fines up to $100,000 and up to one year in jail....

Bill went nowhere, nor was it ever likely too.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[brenthutch 356]

Flag burning is political speech, incendiary speech (pun intended) but speech nonetheless and as such is protected by the first amendment.

[rushmc 18]

Oh come on now. It's not really a big deal. Is it? Seeing how Hillary Clinton sponsored a bill as a senator in 2005 it said almost the exact same things that Trump said. Got a comment about that?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

brenthutch

Flag burning is political speech,

I can burn my couch and call it a 'political statement'

I don't see how the type of object should make the rules any different.

It's like having laws against distracted driving, and then some moron decides we need a law against texting while driving. Apparently Alito agrees?


Alisha's point is likely the strongest argument that could be used - call it hate speech and see if it can be 'regulated'. I would oppose that (if I had any power) - but it's an argument that could be made fairly well if not successfully.

Heck, the fact that something so 'anti-PC' could use a PC argument is a good discussion against the concept of 'hate speech' legislation in the first place.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skycop 0]

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Yes, very nice distraction and piece of media manipulation. WaPo just buys right in. Trumped again.

This is very entertaining, he just toys with them, and they bite almost every time.

Like I said before, I have some serious reservations about Trump, but what he is doing to the media establishment is pure genius.
He ran circles around them during his campaign, and it appears he will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

I'd worry that the US government would then nationalize flags - basically claim that the US owned all US flags, but they can still be bought and sold like anything else. That way they could go after someone for destroying US government property.

we're drifting that way - more government, then more nationalization of subjective stuff that "bothers" populace - hate speech etc etc etc - PC thuggery. Easy solution for someone like Trump - set up by people like Hillary.

THANKS OBAMA!

er

THANKS BUSH!

crap, I don't who to blame here, help me out

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 910]

quade

***Interesting to note that Hillary Clinton sponsored a bill making flag burning illegal. Fines up to $100,000 and up to one year in jail....

Bill went nowhere, nor was it ever likely too.

Right...

But liberals are loudly proclaiming how stupid Trump is, only to find out HC sponsored a bill proposing exactly what he tweeted.

That's some next level trolling. Not very presidential, but pretty funny.

[ryoder 1,069]

There is another glaring error in the latest Drumpf demonstration of ignorance:

"Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk

"Vance v. Terrazas, 444 U.S. 252 (1980), was a United States Supreme Court decision that established that a United States citizen cannot have his or her citizenship taken away unless he or she has acted with an intent to give up that citizenship. "

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_v._Terrazas

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Right...

But liberals are loudly proclaiming how stupid Trump is, only to find out HC sponsored a bill proposing exactly what he tweeted.

That's some next level trolling. Not very presidential, but pretty funny.

Happens a ton. both sides too. Lots of crap to go around

it's funny, I'm laughing, then crying, then in denial, then a couple other stages - I forget the rest.

I need a therapy dog and a safe space

(perhaps a week of scuba will salvage the sanity)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 1,727]

I'm about 10 miles from the college in question. Personally, I think it's free speech, but it's free speech in the same way that calling someone's mother a whore you slept with is.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[winsor 135]

SkyDekker

Interesting to note that Hillary Clinton sponsored a bill making flag burning illegal. Fines up to $100,000 and up to one year in jail....

I kind of like the Louisiana approach.

Burning a flag is perfectly legal.

Beating the living shit out of someone who is burning a flag carries a $5 fine.

[gowlerk 1,613]

wmw999

I'm about 10 miles from the college in question. Personally, I think it's free speech, but it's free speech in the same way that calling someone's mother a whore you slept with is.

Wendy P.

It's something people do to get attention and make others angry. Apparently it works on you as well as it does on Trump.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[pchapman 218]

Flag burners should take a page from US demo jumpers:

It's not a FLAG, it is a BANNER that happens to look like the US flag. Or take a Sharpie to cover one of the stars before burning.

[jakee 981]

winsor

***Interesting to note that Hillary Clinton sponsored a bill making flag burning illegal. Fines up to $100,000 and up to one year in jail....

I kind of like the Louisiana approach.

Burning a flag is perfectly legal.

Beating the living shit out of someone who is burning a flag carries a $5 fine.

That's cool, because also in Louisiana burning a flag and then shooting dead someone who you think is about to beat the living shit out of you because of it carries no penalty at all.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[winsor 135]

jakee

******Interesting to note that Hillary Clinton sponsored a bill making flag burning illegal. Fines up to $100,000 and up to one year in jail....

I kind of like the Louisiana approach.

Burning a flag is perfectly legal.

Beating the living shit out of someone who is burning a flag carries a $5 fine.

That's cool, because also in Louisiana burning a flag and then shooting dead someone who you think is about to beat the living shit out of you because of it carries no penalty at all.

Sure, if you can get a jury that consists of Californians.

[skycop 0]

Quote

But liberals are loudly proclaiming how stupid Trump is, only to find out HC sponsored a bill proposing exactly what he tweeted.

That's some next level trolling. Not very presidential, but pretty funny.

Holy shit,
We agree on something..........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

If you're upset by someone burning a flag you need to get a life.

You clearly were not raised in a culture where being willing to die for your country and its values is something that is a point of pride, discussed over the dinner table, and used as an anchor in political discussions.

There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country. It is their efforts that allows assholes like you to burn flags. The next time you see someone in a uniform, get your shit together and say thank you. Their cultural values far transcends your punk ass values, IMO. You and your ilk are the last fucking people that should have any say in the direction the country is going. With your values, we wouldn't be sovereign for long.

We are all engines of karma