billvon 2,384 #1 October 11, 2016 With the split between Trump and most of the Republican party, there's going to be a question coming up very soon - where will these people go? There are people out there who are true Trump despicables, who will never, ever vote for anyone other than a strong, authoritarian Trump figure, no matter what they do or what they represent. These are, fortunately, in the minority. There are the more reasonable people who were voting for Trump because they thought he was really better than Hillary. From the latest poll results, they will largely be switching to Clinton - or not voting at all. There are the party faithful who are abandoning Trump because they see their leaders (like Paul Ryan) doing the same thing. These people will support their downballot candidates but not Trump. In addition, there are a lot of women out there who feel betrayed, and who are leaving the party due to the perceived lack of morality in the wake of what Trump has done. A twitter-storm from a conservative woman who has had enough: ============== So let me get this straight: I, a conservative female, have spent years defending the Republican Party against claims of sexism. When I saw Republican men getting attacked I stood up for them. I came to their defense. I fought on their behalf. I fought on behalf of a movement I believed in. I fought on behalf of my principles while other women told me I hated my own sex. Not only charges of sexism, but I defended @marcorubio during Go8, I fought in my state to stop the @ScottWalker recall, etc... Now some Trojan horse nationalist sexual predator invades the @GOP, eating it alive, and you cowards sit this one out? He treats women like dogs, and you go against everything I – and other female conservatives – said you were & back down like cowards. Get this straight: We don’t need you to stand up for us, YOU needed to stand up for us for YOU. For YOUR dignity. For YOUR reputation. Jeff Sessions says that he wouldn’t “characterize” Trump’s unauthorized groping of women as “assault.” Are you kidding me?! Others try to rebuke his comments, yet STILL choose to vote for a sexual predator - because let’s be honest, that’s what he is. "What he said is wrong, and the way he treats women is wrong, but it’s not wrong enough for me to not vote for him." Thanks, cowards. Various men in the movement are writing it off as normal, confirming every stereotype the left has thrown at them. So I'm done. I'm sooo done. If you can’t stand up for women & unendorse this piece of human garbage, you deserve every charge of sexism thrown at you. I’m just one woman, you won’t even notice my lack of presence at rallies, fair booths, etc., You won’t really care that I’m offended by your silence, and your inability to take a stand. But one by one you’ll watch more women like me go, & you’ll watch men of ACTUAL character follow us out the door. And what you’ll be left with are the corrupt masses that foam at the mouth every time you step outside the lines. Men who truly see women as lesser beings, & women without self-respect. & your “guiding faith” & "principles" will be attached to them as well. And when it’s all said and done, all you’ll have left is the party The Left always accused you of being. Scum. ==================== So she's probably not coming back. So where do all these people go? Do they all go back to the GOP after Trump fades away? Do some join the democrats, leaving the GOP in the position the Federalist party was in 1810? Do they move on to the libertarian party? Do they just become independents? (probably the best thing that could happen) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #2 October 11, 2016 NPR was interviewing a Republican lobbyist this morning who despises Trump and has written off the election. He was discussing rebuilding the GOP. When the interviewer asked about what he would do to retain the Trump die-hard supporters, he dismissed even making the effort, with the comment: "Those people are face-down in the kool-aid." "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #3 October 11, 2016 Quote"Those people are face-down in the kool-aid." Isn't it simpler to say "deplorables"? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 October 11, 2016 ryoder"Those people are face-down in the kool-aid." What to me is amazing is I think we know and have sat on planes next to some of those same people. I'm certain that every single one of them thinks they're "doing the right thing" from their point of view too. And I hate to go all Godwin on this, but I do kind of think it's appropriate as it's the same type of people and mindset that enabled things like that to happen. I'm just unable to explain how they don't see Trump for what he really is.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #5 October 11, 2016 GeorgiaDon Quote "Those people are face-down in the kool-aid." Isn't it simpler to say "deplorables"? Don "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymiles 3 #6 October 11, 2016 Quote I'm just unable to explain how they don't see Trump for what he really is. Because they are bigots and too stupid to know that they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #7 October 11, 2016 skymilesQuote I'm just unable to explain how they don't see Trump for what he really is. Because they are bigots and too stupid to know that they are. You may be on to something, but let's not equate "stupid" and "bigot." Some bigots can be intelligent and I know some people who, while having very low intelligence, aren't bigots. I think they're separate qualities.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #8 October 11, 2016 quade What to me is amazing is I think we know and have sat on planes next to some of those same people. "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #9 October 12, 2016 Iago ******What to me is amazing is I think we know and have sat on planes next to some of those same people. That works quite well for a sizeable portion of the Hillary camp as well. After the Repubs implode we just need to get rid of the Dems and then we might actually be able to get some changes made around here. You might not like the Democrats. I get that. However, there is a world of difference between Trump and anything else we've seen in the US post 1865 from any major party (some have compared him to Goldwater -- I think Trump is far nuttier). I'd almost go so far as to say in the entire history of the US, but I don't want to diminish the idea that slavery is just f'ed up. Trump is not simply a politician some people dislike. He is a demagog on the order of (and trust me it hurts me to say this) Hitler and Mussolini (both of which were far more eloquent in their oratory BTW). THAT is an actual danger to the US and is why you've been seeing traditional conservatives running away from Trump. There are now some people seem to want to follow a demagog and can't actually see the difference.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 124 #10 October 12, 2016 Trump will lose, badly. The Party will reject him. He will be done within the GOP and that will be that. He will write a book and tell the world how it was all rigged against him and how he never wanted it anyway. Opportunity for the Party to rebuild, and rid themselves of the radicals that got them to where they are today, which is disarray and losing election after election due to the inability of putting someone out front who can actually win. It is an opportunity for the party to rebuild, refocus and perhaps come out a million miles ahead on the next cycle. OR Double and triple down on the anti-immigrant, anti-women, anti-everything rhetoric they said they would fix after that last loss in 2008. I see an opportunity to rebuild, but I expect many of the party inside elite also see it as "Obviously we did not go far enough or we would have won". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #11 October 12, 2016 Sometimes I hate being right: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4785896 Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #12 October 12, 2016 tkhayesTrump will lose, badly. The Party will reject him. He will be done within the GOP and that will be that. He will pay someone to write a book under his name and tell the world how it was all rigged against him and how he never wanted it anyway. He has never written a book. He doesn't have the attention span needed."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #13 October 12, 2016 But the Republican party is the topic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #14 October 12, 2016 IagoDanny Trejo for President! Allhe has to do is sit down at the negotiating table and the opposition will crumble! Danny Trejo talking about Trump (starts at 15:52): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm-14PgUUKg&t=15m52s"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #15 October 12, 2016 That may be true, but they would support a man of Mexican heritage long before the republicans would! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #16 October 12, 2016 "and, some I assume, are good people" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #17 October 12, 2016 Some reflection after the 2012 loss..... http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/6-big-takeaways-from-the-rnc-s-incredible-2012-autopsy After 2016, the next one will be a one liner that reads "Should have listened to our 2012 autopsy."“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #18 October 12, 2016 quade I'm just unable to explain how they don't see Trump for what he really is. I believe we all see DT for what he really is. We are disturbed that he was the last Republican left standing. The main reason DT has our support is that we see HRC for what she really is.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #19 October 12, 2016 The Daily 202: Republican politicians fall back in line behind Trump after defecting https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/10/12/daily-202-republican-politicians-fall-back-in-line-behind-trump-after-defecting/57fd7a23e9b69b059243020a/ Darryl Glenn, the Republican nominee against Sen. Michael Bennet in Colorado, said Saturday that Trump must step aside. “America cannot have a man who speaks this way about women be the face of our country to the Free World,” he said in a statement. But facing backlash from Trump supporters, Glenn — who already has no realistic path to victory — backtracked. He says watching the debate Sunday night changed his mind. “Donald Trump did what he absolutely had to do,” Glenn said on Fox News. “I think he reset this campaign.” Glenn is on my ballot; The fool just eliminated any possibility of me voting for him."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 78 #20 October 12, 2016 ryoderHe has never written a book. He doesn't have the attention span needed. I am not convinced that he has ever READ a bookTime flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #21 October 12, 2016 okalb***He has never written a book. He doesn't have the attention span needed. I am not convinced that he has ever READ a book From an article about Tony Schwartz, (author of "The Art of the Deal"): But Schwartz believes that Trump’s short attention span has left him with “a stunning level of superficial knowledge and plain ignorance.” He said, “That’s why he so prefers TV as his first news source—information comes in easily digestible sound bites.” He added, “I seriously doubt that Trump has ever read a book straight through in his adult life.” During the eighteen months that he observed Trump, Schwartz said, he never saw a book on Trump’s desk, or elsewhere in his office, or in his apartment. Source: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #22 October 12, 2016 It's my belief this is where his support base is from as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #23 October 12, 2016 >I am not convinced that he has ever READ a book He doesn't need to. He makes the best decisions with very little knowledge. ========= Donald Trump doesn’t read much WaPo Jul 17 2016 NEW YORK — As he has prepared to be named the Republican nominee for president, Donald Trump has not read any biographies of presidents. He said he would like to someday. He has no time to read, he said: “I never have. I’m always busy doing a lot. Now I’m more busy, I guess, than ever before.” . . He said in a series of interviews that he does not need to read extensively because he reaches the right decisions “with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability.” Trump said he is skeptical of experts because “they can’t see the forest for the trees.” He believes that when he makes decisions, people see that he instinctively knows the right thing to do: “A lot of people said, ‘Man, he was more accurate than guys who have studied it all the time.’ ” . . . . Trump said reading long documents is a waste of time because he absorbs the gist of an issue very quickly. ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 268 #24 October 12, 2016 The party needs to reestablish what its basic platform is: less government intervention/oversight, more personal responsibility and choice. Unfortunately, it was hijacked a few decades ago by the religious fanatics who wanted to make it about "morals" (or whatever). TEA Party tried to break away (Taxed Enough Already) and focus on the old ideals of the Republican party, but it was also overcome by incoherent messaging from religion-based control freaks, and the original message again got lost. I propose all elected officials from any party, agree that in all their messaging (e.g., on their campaign websites, etc), they will include this in their position points: After writing their position on an issue, the next paragraph starts with "how does this position support or align with the party ideals of XX?" Followed by that candidate's reasoning. The RNC and DNC chairs (and the chair of any other parties that form after this) should be able to enforce this by revoking the right of that candidate or person to affiliate with the party if they stray too far from the platform on too many issues -- and especially if their reasoning is wholly unsupportable. This way, the parties stay at least in the same ballpark, constituents get an easy reference for how their elected officials are sticking with that party's platform, and anyone with a different idea can form a separate party with their own platform. ETA: this would also make it much easier for a party to disallow any prospective candidate from using their party name to run for office, if they don't adhere to the party platform, regardless of the primary process. Sure, you're going to get senators who vote one way or another on a particular piece of legislation that may not 100% align with their party's platform (their job is to make decisions for the country as a whole). That shouldn't get their affiliation revoked. But it would make them explain publicly why they chose to vote a certain way, and how it would benefit (or be better for) America as a whole. A huge percentage of the population has better things to do all day than just track down all of the "facts" spewed out by elected officials or worse, candidates. With this little tweak to how the party elders could get back control of the parties, it would be so much easier for the general public to be able to identify solidly with those parties, AND be able to argue the positions they take when supporting those parties, since they would have references at their disposal. And of course, the sky in my world is not only multi-colored, but patterned and textured as well! See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus Shut Up & Jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #25 October 12, 2016 Normally your posts are well thought out and sourced and while I agree with a lot of what you said, I can't let this stand. QuoteUnfortunately, it was hijacked a few decades ago by the religious fanatics who wanted to make it about "morals" (or whatever). No. The "religious right" didn't hijack the GOP. They were invited in by the Reagan Administration, prior to which the GOP had very little good to say about religion in general other than it distinguished the US from the godless commies. The problem with the religious right is a problem of the GOP's own making. You don't have to believe me just because I said so either. This is easily googleable.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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