12 year old travels to SA to trophy hunt

[yoink 321]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-girl-12-sparks-online-outrage-hunting-trip-photos-article-1.2756107

Who the fuck shoots Giraffes and Zebras?


Is it just me that sees this as properly mentally sick? That someone thinks that travelling around the world to kill animals for fun is normal?
There's no sport to it. You're in no danger. I don't get the appeal.

[quade 3]

This is a more complex issue than it appears on the surface.

In some cases culling non-endangered/non-threatened animals has both environmental and economic benefits. In parts of Africa in particular this is especially so with regard to prey animals if the predator species numbers have dwindled.

From what I can see in the photographs that might be the case here.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 3]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/03/070315-hunting-africa.html

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[divertech 0]

That 12 year old just payed a couple of salary's over here in Africa, what have you done for conservation? Don't get upset over something you don't understand (I would try and explain it to you but I get the feeling you don't want to understand).

[kelpdiver 2]

divertech

That 12 year old just payed a couple of salary's over here in Africa, what have you done for conservation? Don't get upset over something you don't understand (I would try and explain it to you but I get the feeling you don't want to understand).

That it benefits some locally doesn't cover for the bad. People come to Africa to look at and take pictures of animals too, spending substantially more money, I suspect. Trophy shoots...I'll never get it. Particularly against a target like a giraffe, a species that doesn't hunt or fear man? And how humane is the killing? Does the shooter dispatch the animal with one shot? Giraffes seem like tough ones to do that. That dentist who got guides to lure the lion out of a reserve failed so badly with his shot that the animal took over a day to die. That guy happily bought his way past any rules.

The premise you repeat is that by bilking rich people who want to 'hunt' trophy pieces, including endangered species, that the money collected can be used to protect the rest. Is that really working? Or does it just raise the price that poachers can charge for the same activity? And how many non shooting tourists do you lose if (when) the animal does disappear, like the various rhino species? Years ago Palau estimated that each live shark was worth $7 million in tourism dollars, and based on that took best efforts against shark finning.

This particular article doesn't show it, but the girl has also proudly posted pictures of feral cats she killed with a bow. Historically, it's serial killers that start with cats and dogs.

Me personally - if I'm going to engage in a hunt that isn't about eventually eating it (ie, deer), then I'd want it to be a bit more primal. Not inside a protective car, spear/bow/black powder (single shot)...and even then...how the fuck do I justify killing for the sake of killing?

[BIGUN 1,049]

What part of this did you miss?

Quote

Eli Gourdin said the meat from the animals they killed went to feed orphans in the local village and that the hunting farm offered the giraffe to them because it was a problem.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[AndyBoyd 0]

I'm just throwing this out here for the heck of it. I admit that I have a negative, visceral reaction to these types of animals being killed for sport. So I get where you are coming from. Here's my question -- is fishing any different? When I was younger, I went fishing a lot, mostly with my dad. We caught lots of fish. I'd guess about 95% went back in the water. The rest we'd eat. I have kept a couple of trophy fish. I caught a nice sailfish many years ago in Acapulco and had it mounted. It's still on the basement wall. I caught a nice sized northern pike and had it mounted as well. My dad caught a big barracuda off Key West and we had that mounted too. I've still got a photo of me with the sailfish. Does that make me a horrible person? And why would I have that negative reaction to hunters when I've got that sailfish on my wall? Maybe it's because mammals seem closer to humans than fish. Maybe I'm being irrational about hunters. I dunno where I'm going with this. But every time there's a Cecil the lion or a 12 year old with a dead giraffe, I end up with a whole bunch of mixed feelings. If anyone wants to offer any armchair psychology, or just beat me up for killing the sailfish and the northern pike, feel free.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Your profile says you live in 'Frisco. There used to be some mighty fine wildlife there, but the grizzlys are gone now. To make room for you and your family to live.

My point is, look after your own back yard and don't be so quick to judge others in far away places. If they want to sell the right to trophy hunt in their home that is not your business. They have calculated what is best for them.

What have you done to restore wild habitat in CA?

Quote

Trophy shoots...I'll never get it.

But I do agree with you there. Me neither.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rehmwa 2]

gowlerk

My point is, look after your own back yard and don't be so quick to judge others in far away places. If they want to sell the right to trophy hunt in their home that is not your business. They have calculated what is best for them.

well then, that's a mighty fine philosophy, bet it applies to lots of things too

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[gowlerk 1,903]

rehmwa

***My point is, look after your own back yard and don't be so quick to judge others in far away places. If they want to sell the right to trophy hunt in their home that is not your business. They have calculated what is best for them.

well then, that's a mighty fine philosophy, bet it applies to lots of things too


ouch, I just stubbed my toe. But seriously, I hear lots of people talking about wildlife in far away places. Mostly from people who live in cities.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,380]

>So I get where you are coming from. Here's my question -- is fishing any different?

At one level, no. Whether you shoot a giraffe or land a fish or swat a fly you're killing an animal.

But we generally place more value on animals we relate to. Dogs are social and relate well to people, and have emotions and reactions that we share. So we have a visceral reaction to seeing someone killing a dog for no good reason, because we can put ourselves either in the place of the dog or the place of someone who loves the dog. (In fact, we're wired to do this.) Lions and giraffes evoke a similar (perhaps not as strong) level of kinship. And now that we know that chimpanzees and dolphins are closer to us in terms of intelligence than we once thought, we often have similar reactions to people killing those animals.

Of course, there are animals that defy such easy categorization. Every time we look into squid, for example, we find another way in which their intelligence approaches the intelligence of those "kin" animals. But a lot of people who would never, ever order bushmeat have no problem with calamari.

Overall I think it's a good thing that people are thinking more about the consequences of trophy hunting (and hunting in general, and poaching, and even overfishing) because that will tend to reduce the damage that such practices cause. Even if that perception isn't always based on purely logical (or consistent) criteria.

[divertech 0]

Guys fact is that some animals needs to be hunted to "make space" for the new generation, unfortunately Americans (Canadians, Germans, Britts, Indians etc) cant stay and consume what they shoot so the meat generally goes to the local community giving rise to trophy hunting. African wild life conservation depends on these hunters, if the animals had no financial value they will simply disappear making space for cattle with financial viability. The photo trophy bunch don't spend nearly as much as you might imagine and what do we do with all the excess animals? In a perfect eco system the animals will sort things out among them self's but we are a couple of century's removed from a perfect eco system thus necessitating culling of animals, now we prefer it to be the oldest animals (trophy animals). By the way it seems like you all think it is easy hunting these animals in a reserve the size she did it in, trust me it's not as easy as you would like to pretend
PS. The Dentist shooting the lion thing was grossly over played by the media without any facts lions are not on any endangered list (thanks hunters) Zebras and giraffe are common animals on game farms in Southern Africa and numbers needs to be kept in check.

[Coreeece 2]

AndyBoyd

Here's my question -- is fishing any different?

I suppose one has to question whether or not fish know what pain is? Do they have the mental capacity to suffer?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

Overall I think it's a good thing that people are thinking more about the consequences of trophy hunting (and hunting in general, and poaching, and even overfishing) because that will tend to reduce the damage that such practices cause. Even if that perception isn't always based on purely logical (or consistent) criteria.

Ya, good thing the bible isn't against trophy hunting, or else you might come to a different conclusion.

The same people bitching about the consequences of trophy hunting are the same people that couldn't care less about the consequences of prostitution or drug use nor reducing the damage that such practices cause - legalize it!

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[RMK 3]

The “schooling” that you are providing to the “city folk” is falling on deaf ears. I’ve travelled extensively though South Africa, Botswana and Namibia over the past 20 years. Please Note:

• giraffe are not difficult to shoot

• tourists with cameras can provide far more income

• if an animal is a local nuisance; it can be killed by the locals without the need of 12yr old girl with pink bows

• the African savannah can balance itself; it has done so for millions of years (it's not exactly a suburb of Dayton, Ohio with a problem deer jumping in front of school buses)

• nothing should be viewed as positive, just because someone receives some money

Also, whatever the view of trophy hunting, it should be referred to as a hobby or personal interest; not a sport – which it most certainly is not.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[DanG 1]

Quote

Ya, good thing the bible isn't against trophy hunting, or else you might come to a different conclusion.

The same people bitching about the consequences of trophy hunting are the same people that couldn't care less about the consequences of prostitution or drug use nor reducing the damage that such practices cause - legalize it!

Way to try and pivot the thread toward your personal issues! Well played.

As soon as the giraffes start consenting to being shot, trophy hunting can be discussed in the same way as legalized prostitution and drug use. Until then, gimme a break.

- Dan G

[divertech 0]

You are right of course, giraffe aren't all that difficult to shoot as your extensive experience in this regard must proof.
Sure tourist with cameras "can" provide more income but they don't.
Sure the locals can kill the nuisance animal, how are we making money by doing that?
Sure the African savannah can balance it self, all we need to do is get rid of all the humans and fences, seems like a workable solution.
No money is not the solution to everything but it bloody well helps doesn't it?
Look I understand some people don't like or understand trophy hunting but it is the only way to keep wild life going on a sustainable manner. If there is no monetary value to animals people would use the land for other purposes to make a living.
Well done on "travelling extensively through South Africa, Botswana and Namibia" I have lived here all my live and I am involved with nature conservation and yes I am a "biltong" hunter.
PS You do realize that culling (look now it isn't hunting) happens in all parks in Africa?

[DJL 232]

I'm of the opinion that the self-promotion of these hunts from wanna-be internet stars looking for an endorsement is more revolting than the hunt itself. There are animals I'd never shoot (Black Bears), there are animals I'd run over twice (Deer). These same kinds of hunts have been going on for a long time and the only difference is that the articles once only showed up in hunting magazines and not on our social media feeds. That doesn't make it any better or worse, it just puts the issue directly in front of people who are vehemently against killing animals and know nothing about the complexities of what occurs in a continent with a landmass over 3 times that of the United States with 47 different countries and sets of laws.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DanG 1]

There's a big difference between being vehemently against killing animals (which really only applies to Jains and maybe some very hardcore vegans) and not understanding why people kill for fun. Killing for food, killing to end suffering, killing for safety, and killing for wildlife management are all totally understandable reasons to kill an animal. It's the killing for fun that doesn't make sense to many people.

- Dan G

[Coreeece 2]

DanG

Quote

Ya, good thing the bible isn't against trophy hunting, or else you might come to a different conclusion.

The same people bitching about the consequences of trophy hunting are the same people that couldn't care less about the consequences of prostitution or drug use nor reducing the damage that such practices cause - legalize it!

Way to try and pivot the thread toward your personal issues! Well played.

As soon as the giraffes start consenting to being shot, trophy hunting can be discussed in the same way as legalized prostitution.

Consent?

The coercive nature of human trafficking is not consensual.

The typical age of those entering prostitution is 12 years old - some are as young as 9. About 80% of prostitutes have been victims of rape - with some reports showing a large percentage of women being raped over 50 times per year.

Prostitutes have a mortality rate that's 40 times higher than the national average. 75% of prostitutes attempt suicide - they account for 15% of completed suicides.

A study found that 95% of prostitutes wanted to escape immediately.

But hey, just legalize it - let's just ignore all that and focus on the devastating effects of the food chain.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 1,903]

Coreeece

***

Quote

Ya, good thing the bible isn't against trophy hunting, or else you might come to a different conclusion.

The same people bitching about the consequences of trophy hunting are the same people that couldn't care less about the consequences of prostitution or drug use nor reducing the damage that such practices cause - legalize it!

Way to try and pivot the thread toward your personal issues! Well played.

As soon as the giraffes start consenting to being shot, trophy hunting can be discussed in the same way as legalized prostitution.

Consent?

The coercive nature of human trafficking is not consensual.

The typical age of those entering prostitution is 12 years old - some are as young as 9. About 80% of prostitutes have been victims of rape - with some reports showing a large percentage of women being raped over 50 times per year.

Prostitutes have a mortality rate that's 40 times higher than the national average. 75% of prostitutes attempt suicide - they account for 15% of completed suicides.

A study found that 95% of prostitutes wanted to escape immediately.

But hey, just legalize it - let's just ignore all that and focus on the devastating effects of the food chain.

Shall we move on from the subject of hunting to your views on prostitution? Maybe you should start another thread. I'm not long on prostitution, but I doubt those statistics are accurate in any kind of common context.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

******

Quote

Ya, good thing the bible isn't against trophy hunting, or else you might come to a different conclusion.

The same people bitching about the consequences of trophy hunting are the same people that couldn't care less about the consequences of prostitution or drug use nor reducing the damage that such practices cause - legalize it!

Way to try and pivot the thread toward your personal issues! Well played.

As soon as the giraffes start consenting to being shot, trophy hunting can be discussed in the same way as legalized prostitution.

Consent?

The coercive nature of human trafficking is not consensual.

The typical age of those entering prostitution is 12 years old - some are as young as 9. About 80% of prostitutes have been victims of rape - with some reports showing a large percentage of women being raped over 50 times per year.

Prostitutes have a mortality rate that's 40 times higher than the national average. 75% of prostitutes attempt suicide - they account for 15% of completed suicides.

A study found that 95% of prostitutes wanted to escape immediately.

But hey, just legalize it - let's just ignore all that and focus on the devastating effects of the food chain.

Shall we move on from the subject of hunting to your views on prostitution?

Prostitution is a predatory sport that hunts vulnerable women.

http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/Prostitution%20Quick%20Facts%2012-21-12.pdf

Discussing his experience in a strip club, one man said, “This is the part of me that can still go hunting.”

gowlerk

Maybe you should start another thread

If people want to about bitch about trophy hunting and killing for fun, then maybe they should start a thread about trophy hunting and killing for fun rather than complaining about some girl that hunted a troublesome animal and fed it to orphans.

gowlerk

I'm not long on prostitution, but I doubt those statistics are accurate in any kind of common context.

http://www.rapeis.org/activism/prostitution/prostitutionfacts.html

...and while legal prostitution can possible improve the working conditions for many women, studies show that legalizing prostitution tends to increase human trafficking inflows more so than countries where prostitution is prohibited.


https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[billvon 2,380]

>Ya, good thing the bible isn't against trophy hunting, or else you might come to a
>different conclusion.

No, actually I don't really care what the Bible says about trophy hunting. (No more than I care what the Bible says about alternative energy, or general aviation.)

[DJL 232]

billvon

>Ya, good thing the bible isn't against trophy hunting, or else you might come to a
>different conclusion.

No, actually I don't really care what the Bible says about trophy hunting. (No more than I care what the Bible says about alternative energy, or general aviation.)

Thy wing shall produce lift at a rate of L = (1/2) d v2 s CL. So said the Lord.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Channman 2]

It is my understanding from news reports that the meat feed a local village.