“You say shit like that, and then people will buy into it.”

[billvon 2,396]

>The Republican-led Congress has already, and is even now, lining up in opposition to Trump.

They are saying he's a bad man - and doing nothing to stop him, even though they have the power to do so. Most Republicans still officially endorse him for President.

So we can take that as a template for what they will do if he is elected. They will say "bad Trump" - and do nothing to stop him, and continue to endorse him.

[billvon 2,396]

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Can't understand where it went wrong. Must be Obama's fault.

Don't forget, back in 2004 he was over there with Hillary Clinton getting Humayun Khan killed.

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

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Did they rip the parts about worshiping 40+ different gods and casting spells - or the part about fighting off supernatural beasts that guard a series of gates to the afterlife, and all the other beliefs that have fuck-all to do with Judaism?

What ridiculous beliefs!

Judge if you will, but I was simply illustrating the differences. Last I checked you were a self proclaimed christian - a Catholic. Catholics believe that the priests summon Jesus down from heaven and turn bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ. If you don't believe that, then the catholic church says that you're anathema - that you're going to hell.

billvon

Christians know there are only three Gods - well, one - well, one that has three parts. And casting spells! We know today that only prayer can supernaturally influence outside events. And there are no such things as supernatural beasts. Just Satan. All those other supernatural beings (angels and such) can't really be described as "beasts." More like supernatural _beings_ really.

Ya, none of those were ripped off from the book of the dead, which is what we were talking about - so what's your point? Hindus and Buddhists have their fair share of weird supernatural shit too - doesn't mean they ripped it from the book of the dead.

billvon

And the Egyptian religions talk about creation as starting out with lifeless waters, then land appearing, then the Sun to provide light, then the sky. Nothing like Judaism. The Sun comes before land in Judaism!

There are similarities between various religions all over the world. There is a likeness between Taoism and the sermon on the mount, but that doesn't mean Christ was inspired by it. Likewise, there are similarities found in writings of Ecclesiastes and Proverbs that predates the Tao and budhism by 300-400+ years, but that doesn't mean that Laozi and Buddha crossed paths with Solomon in some kind of past life.

I really don't see what the big deal is. I have had thoughts for inventions only to find out that it had already been patented. I can express an original thought on this forum and somebody will feel a connection because they felt the same thing, though we never met. People make similar music and write similar lyrics with zero influence from each other. Two completely different people on opposite ends of the world can write about their experience of Love and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

This whole Idea that a writing is plagiarized simply because it shares some similar ideas of a previous writing is ludicrous...Did Stephen King Plagiarize from the NT when he wrote Langoliers? Did the Wachowski Brothers Plagiarize from Scripture when they wrote the Matrix?

There is this idea in America that we need to start living within our means. If someone writes a book telling people to live within their means, are we to automatically assume that it was ripped off because that's what Scripture has said all along?

BTW, I still don't see what any of this has to do with the gun control arguments that your liberal cohorts are losing, thus ignoring it, and changing the subject. . .(snicker)

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 1,909]

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BTW, I still don't see what any of this has to do with the gun control arguments that your liberal cohorts are losing, thus ignoring it, and changing the subject. . .(snicker)

They may be losing. But so is your country. Y'all do a pretty good job of ignoring the death toll, speaking of ignoring things. Just because the solution is difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. One day the tide will turn.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

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BTW, I still don't see what any of this has to do with the gun control arguments that your liberal cohorts are losing, thus ignoring it, and changing the subject. . .(snicker)

They may be losing. But so is your country.

...and using this issue just to point fingers at gun-loving christian conservatives during an election year isn't gonna help.

Most of these people don't give a shit about thugs killing each other in the the south side of Chicago, but they have no problem using those stats to stick it to the gun-lovers that have nothing to do with it.

These are the same dickheads that shout racism all the way to the bank, but have no problem imposing harsher gun restrictions on blacks because they think the color of their skin makes them more of a threat.

Neither do they give a shit about those committing suicide - these gun control nutbags are the same people you'll find arguing for the right to die, but they sure as hell love throwing gun suicide numbers in our faces - bunch of hypocritical fucks.

gowlerk

Y'all do a pretty good job of ignoring the death toll, speaking of ignoring things. Just because the solution is difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. One day the tide will turn.

There you go ignoring the facts again. I know it's not impossible - we've already cut the gun homicide rate in half over the last 20 years or so. In fact, gun crime, suicides and accidental death have been on the decline for quite some time despite the influx of guns into our society.

We just need to keep doing what we've been doing. We need to raise our kids right. We need to implement more of the CDC recommendations that address the violent inner city culture, and we need impose more gun restrictions on those guilty of domestic violence - and maybe even those with PPOs against them.

Of course none of this will matter if we don't have a good economy with enough jobs - especially good paying manufacturing jobs or something equivalent for those living in the inner city.

...and I know you guys think I'm joking, but we need an inner city refugee program. If I was in a strong black family busting my ass to get us of the inner city slums of Detroit, I'd be pissed that all these foreigners are getting a free ride to the suburbs.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[billvon 2,396]

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Judge if you will, but I was simply illustrating the differences.

There are indeed differences - but there are far more similarities than differences. Most Western religions share similar origins.

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Last I checked you were a self proclaimed christian - a Catholic. Catholics believe that the priests summon Jesus down from heaven and turn bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ. If you don't believe that, then the catholic church says that you're anathema - that you're going to hell.

Oh well. The people there are probably more fun anyway.

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Ya, none of those were ripped off from the book of the dead, which is what we were talking about - so what's your point?

Nothing was "ripped off" from anything else; nothing was stolen. People who believed in Ra (and Amun, and Isis) became the people who wrote about all the Gods of the Old Testament - Elohim, El Shaddai, Adonai, Jehovah, Yahweh-Rapha, Yaweh-Nissi, El-Olam and El-Gibhor. Different parts of the Old Testament used different Gods because they came from different oral (and sometimes written) traditions. For example, Genesis 1 talks about Yaweh and Genesis 2 talks about Elohim because they are two completely different stories, from different cultures with different original religions.
And someday there will be new religions with new Gods and spirits and stories and magic, and they will base themselves on Christianity, despite future worshipers that claim "this is OUR religion and has nothing to do with that old heathen nonsense!" We can see the beginnings of this today with Mormons, which is a very distinct branch of Christianity, with its own set of holy books, rituals and stories.

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I really don't see what the big deal is. I have had thoughts for inventions only to find out that it had already been patented.

It's not a big deal at all. We share a lot in common with previous religions - which is why I found it odd you reacted so angrily to Kallend's claim that the Ten Commandments came from an earlier religion. As you say, it's just not a big deal.

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

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Judge if you will, but I was simply illustrating the differences.

There are indeed differences - but there are far more similarities than differences.

Ya, maybe if you're just glancing at them from a superficial perspective.

"Hey look, all these religions believe in some sort of god and think that stealing and murder are wrong - what a hoax!

One can say that there a similarities between Taoism and Christianity, but if you take a close look you'll only see that it shares some vague undertones with the sermon on the mount. If you take an even closer look, you'll see that not only is the heart of their messages different, but contrary to each other. Same thing when comparing it to Egyptian religion as well.

billvon

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Ya, none of those were ripped off from the book of the dead, which is what we were talking about - so what's your point?

Nothing was "ripped off" from anything else; nothing was stolen.

Ok, but that's what Kallend was saying - take it up with him.

billvon

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I really don't see what the big deal is. I have had thoughts for inventions only to find out that it had already been patented.

It's not a big deal at all. We share a lot in common with previous religions - which is why I found it odd you reacted so angrily to Kallend's claim that the Ten Commandments came from an earlier religion. As you say, it's just not a big deal.

If you want to say that one's culture was reflected in biblical writings, fine - I don't have a problem with that - but to say that the commandments were ripped off of the book of the dead is just a trollish opinion backed up by nothing more than one's own truthiness.

The first commandments express the idea of one true God while the book of the dead expresses ideas of polytheism. The few commandments that are similar are just common sense morality. Even atheists can figure out for themselves that stealing and murder are wrong.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[winsor 186]

billvon

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It is the nature of being president or a candidate to be attacked. If you can't deal with that without attacking back, you're seriously unsuitable for the job.

Trump will be very strong, and will be the best at attacking back at his enemies. That weak Kenyan Obama would probably ignore an offensive tweet from some evildoer in China. When Trump is president, he'll have the launch codes, and no one will attack him more than once! That's what being strong is all about.

I'm sure he will carry through on his nuclear attacks every bit as often as he does his lawsuits.

[gowlerk 1,909]

Or you could make the sacrifice of giving up collecting killing machines and keeping them as toys. And carrying them around "because others are and I need to be ready to shoot back". If people have guns they will use them. Mostly in anger.

Gun control advocates are not "nutbags". Most of them don't care even enough to vote on the issue. Those who love their guns are far more emotional about the issue. But most of them are not "nutbags" either.

Gun control will not solve society's problems. It will just make it safer for everyone. When the police no longer need to assume that everyone they deal with is armed perhaps they will feel they have more time to think before they shoot.

Suicides are by far the majority of gun deaths. And you are right, everyone just glosses over that fact. You may feel differently when someone you love has a bout of depression and also a convenient gun nearby. Maybe they will borrow yours to do the job. The right to die does not cover the type of suicide gun users suffer. And you know that. It's a completely different issue. I didn't know you had an opinion on that, but you seem hostile to the idea. Most people who are think God is against it. What is your objection? More "nutbag" talk and name calling?

Having all the cool toys to play with is kind of nice, but not worth the price. I'm not a nutbag I'm just a little pissed at all illegal weapons being smuggled into my country from yours. And to judge from your comment you don't need to be a strong black family to resent immigrants. You seem to have enough resentment by yourself.

The most impressive thing about gun lovers is their gutteral anger and fear about the possibility of any restrictions. This is the reason for the pejorative "gun nut". Many of them do get a little nuts about it.

Happiness is a warm gun.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,909]

No rip offs there. Except in the sense that all religions are about the same thing. Answering the unanswerable questions that being human and aware brings up. And supplying an organizing hierarchical force for leaders to dominate in.

Manson, Jesus, Noah, Moses, Mohamed, Buddha, Smith, and all the many others. All lying scoundrels.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

Manson, Jesus, Noah, Moses, Mohamed, Buddha, Smith, and all the many others. All lying pieces of shit.

So what did Jesus say that made him a piece of shit?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

Happiness is a warm gun.

It's pointless talking to you about this issue. You keep regurgitating the same bullshit without addressing the responses I've already given you - and you still continue to point fingers at the people you don't like rather than focusing on real solutions that have already been proven to work.

We already had a ban on assault weapons and the DOJ concluded that it was ineffective in reducing gun violence - let it go and focus on what actual works.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 1,909]

Coreeece

***
Manson, Jesus, Noah, Moses, Mohamed, Buddha, Smith, and all the many others. All lying pieces of shit.

So what did Jesus say that made him a piece of shit?

Edited to scoundrel, but not in time. But to answer your question, he claimed to be the son of god. Making him a lying scoundrel. It's not hard to argue that anyone who claims to be the Messiah is a POS. But I'll back down from that as it is a meaningless insult and too vague.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jakee 1,254]

winsor

I'm sure he will carry through on his nuclear attacks every bit as often as he does his lawsuits.

I hope not. He may threaten more suits than he files - but he still files a lot.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[gowlerk 1,909]

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We already had a ban on assault weapons and the DOJ concluded that it was ineffective in reducing gun violence - let it go and focus on what actual works.

And you consistently ignore the fact that we already know what works. The experience of every other first world country is that if you restrict guns you will have less gun violence. America stands alone in ignoring this lesson.

The real solution is a change in your laws. But it is not politically possible at this time. There is no other solution. And there is no need for people to walk around armed. Proven all over the world. Even if you show that deaths are down this decade, they are still 5 times higher than the neighbor next door. They are even higher than your neighbor to the south, even with all their crime problems.

But you close your eyes and call gun control advocates "nutjobs".

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,623]

Coreeece

***
Manson, Jesus, Noah, Moses, Mohamed, Buddha, Smith, and all the many others. All lying pieces of shit.

So what did Jesus say that made him a piece of shit?

All that Sermon on the Mount stuff. You know, turn the other cheek, be nice to people, look after the poor, etc. All the stuff the Christian right rejects.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

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We already had a ban on assault weapons and the DOJ concluded that it was ineffective in reducing gun violence - let it go and focus on what actual works.

And you consistently ignore the fact that we already know what works. The experience of every other first world country is that if you restrict guns you will have less gun violence

See, this is what I mean. You keep regurgitating the same shit that I've already addressed. We talked about this a couple weeks ago and discussed how other countries never had the large amounts of guns like we did to begin with - it's not the same.

You said that the only way to reduce gun violence, was to reduce guns. You never proposed a viable solution to get guns out of the hands of criminals - just that law abiding citizens voluntarily relinquish theirs - and you never addressed how many guns would need to be taken away in order to make a difference.

Then you say that we could still have guns, and even sell and buy new ones as long as there were strict laws. So how the hell is that going to reduce guns enough to make a difference? Your argument is so muddled that I don't even know wtf you're talking about sometimes.

gowlerk

The real solution is a change in your laws. But it is not politically possible at this time. There is no other solution.

You said that it would take decades upon decades to reduce gun violence through the reduction of firearms, but we've already cut the rate in half in less than 20 years - and some of that was even after the end of the assault rifle ban.

We already know what works, and it's still working. If we just keep doing what we've been doing and implement more CDC recommendations to address our violent culture and impose gun restrictions on those guilty of domestic violence, I'm optimistic that the crime rate will continue to drop.

gowlerk

And there is no need for people to walk around armed.

The CDC noted that defensive uses of guns are about as common as offensive uses, so first, lets address our violent culture and reduce crime, and then maybe we can start talking about relinquishing our guns.

Your focus is backwards.

gowlerk

Even if you show that deaths are down this decade, they are still 5 times higher than the neighbor next door.

And they would still be higher even if we gave up our guns. You said it would take decades before we'd start seeing results if we started getting rid of our firearms. There are no quick fixes, but luckily we have plans in place that are already reducing the amount of crime in this country.

gowlerk

They are even higher than your neighbor to the south, even with all their crime problems.

ya, all that crime results in almost 7 homicides per 100k which is about twice as much as ours. We just commit suicide at a much higher rate - so clearly there are cultural issues that need to be addressed and it isn't the amount of guns.

IMO, part of the suicide problem today is that we're raising a bunch insecure spoiled little brats that can't take a joke nor stick up for themselves, so we pump them full of anti-depressants and psychotropic drugs until they go nuts.

God forbid if a 5 year-old doesn't listen to his parents - then they start shoving amphetamines does his throat for ADHD, wtf?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

******
Manson, Jesus, Noah, Moses, Mohamed, Buddha, Smith, and all the many others. All lying pieces of shit.

So what did Jesus say that made him a piece of shit?

Edited to scoundrel, but not in time. But to answer your question, he claimed to be the son of god. Making him a lying scoundrel. It's not hard to argue that anyone who claims to be the Messiah is a POS.

Jeeze, sounds like you have something in common with those that spat in His face and nailed Him to a cross for making such claims.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 622]

I have a hard time placing most of the users here in your novel.

Had we been as intelligent in those times as we are now, that whole fantasy world would have been laughed into non-existence.
Damn shame really.

[gowlerk 1,909]

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You said that the only way to reduce gun violence, was to reduce guns. You never proposed a viable solution to get guns out of the hands of criminals - just that law abiding citizens voluntarily relinquish theirs - and you never addressed how many guns would need to be taken away in order to make a difference.

Then you say that we could still have guns, and even sell and buy new ones as long as there were strict laws. So how the hell is that going to reduce guns enough to make a difference? Your argument is so muddled that I don't even know wtf you're talking about sometimes.

But your responses are all just rationalizations saying it can't work, it would take too long, and it doesn't matter. There is a bottom line here. There are too many people carrying too many guns in America. It is not hard or complicated. It takes political will. That's the only thing missing. For now.

You only have to look beyond your borders. But you won't. You don't want to. You want to believe you can have your cake and eat it too. You are willfully blind to simple facts.

Criminals only have guns because your country is full of them. No, there is not an instant solution, but there is a long term solution.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

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You said that the only way to reduce gun violence, was to reduce guns. You never proposed a viable solution to get guns out of the hands of criminals - just that law abiding citizens voluntarily relinquish theirs - and you never addressed how many guns would need to be taken away in order to make a difference.

Then you say that we could still have guns, and even sell and buy new ones as long as there were strict laws. So how the hell is that going to reduce guns enough to make a difference? Your argument is so muddled that I don't even know wtf you're talking about sometimes.

But your responses are all just rationalizations saying it can't work.

Nope. My responses are realistic plans based on decades of research that are already in place and have cut crime by 50% in the last 20 years.

gowlerk

You want to believe you can have your cake and eat it too.

I believe we are capable of living in a society that is responsible enough to own dangerous tools. The last 20 years of continual downward trends in crime are a testament to that. We still have a long way to go, but thankfully we have plans already in place that are actually proven to work - so we don't really need your help, but thanks for your interest in american sociology.

gowlerk

You are willfully blind to simple facts.

Criminals only have guns because your country is full of them. No, there is not an instant solution, but there is a long term solution.

Yes, and I've outlined it for you at lest a half dozen times, but you are willfully blind to those simple facts.

Your only plan is to shout as loud as you can - "get rid of your guns!"

You might as well just shout "stop killing people!"

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour