Our newest mass murder weapon

[rushmc 18]

winsor

******

Quote

Pssst . . . airliners are also motor vehicles. 

Well no fucking shit. My original point was that it's what an individual does that is the problem. It makes no difference what means of destruction an individual chooses to use, yet there's many here who would blame an inanimate object.

Oh, oh I see. That last line of yours wasn't making light of a mass murder.

Your intention was to simply use a mass murder to promote the NRA agenda. Got it. That shows great sympathy for those who died. Good job.

(Facepalm)

Not quite. It pointed out the stupidity and naivete of those who blame the instrument instead of the operator.

Those who don't pick up on that are, well...

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

wmw999

No, turtle, it's not the "failure" of the "gun as source of all evil" argument. It's the grabbing of yet another headline just for the sake of "scoring a point" without considering if it's the best way or time to make the point. Now this particular poster doesn't give a fuck, but I'd suggest that most people consider other human beings to be something other than actors in a drama, with no other purpose than to illustrate points they find important.

This usually occurs to people right about the time a close friend dies, or a beloved relative, or someone else who means a lot to them other than as an extension of themselves.

As far as the whole gun thing is concerned, you'll notice I don't participate vigorously in those threads. It's in the Second; it's been interpreted a given way. It's heavily pushed in one direction by a minority of motivated people in the US, but that's how our system works. And we've made it so that money is a megaphone, too.

Wendy P.

So
Do think the same of Obama regarding his funeral speech in TX?

Same for you

Bet not!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 212]

rushmc

***No, turtle, it's not the "failure" of the "gun as source of all evil" argument. It's the grabbing of yet another headline just for the sake of "scoring a point" without considering if it's the best way or time to make the point. Now this particular poster doesn't give a fuck, but I'd suggest that most people consider other human beings to be something other than actors in a drama, with no other purpose than to illustrate points they find important.

This usually occurs to people right about the time a close friend dies, or a beloved relative, or someone else who means a lot to them other than as an extension of themselves.

As far as the whole gun thing is concerned, you'll notice I don't participate vigorously in those threads. It's in the Second; it's been interpreted a given way. It's heavily pushed in one direction by a minority of motivated people in the US, but that's how our system works. And we've made it so that money is a megaphone, too.

Wendy P.

So
Do think the same of Obama regarding his funeral speech in TX?

Same for you

Bet not!

You mean how he used the deaths and injuries to push his agenda?

I'd be willing to bet that almost every one of those that are complaining in this thread are all giddy that Obama took the opportunity to push his agenda in that speech.

I bet, until someone brought it to their attention, they didn't even realize their hypocrisy.

I'd even bet further - they still don't see it that way.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,116]

Is there a speech he could have given that you would approve of? He focused on the officers, their families, and how they died protecting freedom in Dallas.

I didn't listen; I went and reviewed it to write this. There's enough looking for fodder for one's arguments going on, I don't need to listen to speeches realtime to add to it.

I suppose you would have preferred that he leave it there. Because, after all, we are all exactly alike, and only you guys, individually, can judge whether someone was treated unfairly. I understand that some people think that every single instance of racism is either an individual aberration, or a misunderstanding on the part of the recipient, or simply a reflection of how the recipient really is personally less worthy. That's comfortable, and most people will do anything to protect their own comfort.

I'd've preferred he leave the joke at the beginning off. It added nothing to the speech and was inappropriate.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

You mean how he used the deaths and injuries to push his agenda?

His agenda? You mean his agenda to reduce racial tensions and bring people together? You have a problem with that? Haters....

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[winsor 185]

gowlerk

Quote

You mean how he used the deaths and injuries to push his agenda?

His agenda? You mean his agenda to reduce racial tensions and bring people together? You have a problem with that? Haters....

Oh, yeah, he is as committed to everyone getting along as is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and David Duke.

Get a clue.

[aphid 0]

God love ya,

Less than 16 hours after an atrocity in a foreign land, this thread has degenerated to;

Defend American gun-rights against all threats,
Bill Maher has been tasteless too,
Go fuck yourself if you don't like my/his offensive post,

And the time-honoured,

Blame Obama.

'Murica. Fuck yeah!

[turtlespeed 212]

aphid

God love ya,

Less than 16 hours after an atrocity in a foreign land, this thread has degenerated to;

Defend American gun-rights against all threats,
Bill Maher has been tasteless too,
Go fuck yourself if you don't like my/his offensive post,

And the time-honoured,

Blame Obama.

'Murica. Fuck yeah!

I assume your computer has an "off" button?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[aphid 0]

turtlespeed

I assume your computer has an "off" button?

Thank you for the reminder that my foreign perspective has less value here.

Regards,

John

[turtlespeed 212]

aphid

***
I assume your computer has an "off" button?

Thank you for the reminder that my foreign perspective has less value here.

Regards,

John

'Rance - fuck yeah - best Lorry drivers ever.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

Oh, yeah, he is as committed to everyone getting along as is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and David Duke.

Get a clue.

I don't know what is wrong with you this morning. But you can not possibly justify what you are implying with that. Because it is very clearly untrue. You don't really believe that BHO wants to racially divide the nation do you?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

winsor

******

Quote

Pssst . . . airliners are also motor vehicles. 

Well no fucking shit. My original point was that it's what an individual does that is the problem. It makes no difference what means of destruction an individual chooses to use, yet there's many here who would blame an inanimate object.

Oh, oh I see. That last line of yours wasn't making light of a mass murder.

Your intention was to simply use a mass murder to promote the NRA agenda. Got it. That shows great sympathy for those who died. Good job.

(Facepalm)

Not quite. It pointed out the stupidity and naivete of those who blame the instrument instead of the operator.

Those who don't pick up on that are, well...

Which is of course why tuna cans, tennis balls and umbrellas are banned from around the GOP convention but guns are allowed.

[nolhtairt 0]

gowlerk

Quote

Oh, yeah, he is as committed to everyone getting along as is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and David Duke.

Get a clue.

I don't know what is wrong with you this morning. But you can not possibly justify what you are implying with that. Because it is very clearly untrue. You don't really believe that BHO wants to racially divide the nation do you?

He may not want to, but he's stumbling his way through trying not to.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

turtlespeed

Not to you. You were just the last post.

I do find it telling that so many that are on the side of the anti gunners are the ones so enraged about the OP's comments.

I guess when one of your solid fall back, or go to points in an argument gets driven right back in your face, it must be frustrating.

There are other threads already that are not agenda based like this one - if this thread offends you, go to another one.

If you need your safe space and are afraid of chalk words written on a sidewalk, go to a different thread.

That said, I believe the reactions above is more butt hurt from the fact that a talking point of how a mass murder was never made by a vehicle was just disproved, Again.

Nah just speaks to how many people have no class. How those same people say how other people should throw thicker skins.

Appearing to rejoice in the mass murder of people because it was perpetrated with an object that suits your particular argument is sickening.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Despite his reputation as a speech giver I have never found him to be a compelling speaker. Not even close to likes of say Pres. Reagan. He sounds too much like a lecturer or someone trying to convince a room full of skeptics. Natural speakers usually sound more like preachers.

I find his style awkward at best. But if you listen to the words it is clear to me that his goal is to unite, not divide.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

nolhtairt

***

Quote

Oh, yeah, he is as committed to everyone getting along as is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and David Duke.

Get a clue.

I don't know what is wrong with you this morning. But you can not possibly justify what you are implying with that. Because it is very clearly untrue. You don't really believe that BHO wants to racially divide the nation do you?

He may not want to, but he's stumbling his way through trying not to.

Like many old white men he has an issue with a person of colour holding a position higher then him.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

Oh, yeah, he is as committed to everyone getting along as is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and David Duke.

Get a clue.

I don't know what is wrong with you this morning. But you can not possibly justify what you are implying with that. Because it is very clearly untrue. You don't really believe that BHO wants to racially divide the nation do you?

He may not want to, but he's stumbling his way through trying not to.

Like many old white men he has an issue with a person of colour holding a position higher then him.

Wow.

Just Wow.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[bgrozev 2]

winsor

******

Quote

Pssst . . . airliners are also motor vehicles. 

Well no fucking shit. My original point was that it's what an individual does that is the problem. It makes no difference what means of destruction an individual chooses to use, yet there's many here who would blame an inanimate object.

Oh, oh I see. That last line of yours wasn't making light of a mass murder.

Your intention was to simply use a mass murder to promote the NRA agenda. Got it. That shows great sympathy for those who died. Good job.

(Facepalm)

Not quite. It pointed out the stupidity and naivete of those who blame the instrument instead of the operator.

Those who don't pick up on that are, well...

Which is a complete strawman in the first place. The stupid semantic issue of whether the "blame" in on the guns or not is irrelevant, and no one seriously argues that guns are responsible in the same way people are. And this is independent of the actual important question, which is what would the effects of certain restrictions be.

[kallend 1,621]

rushmc

***No, turtle, it's not the "failure" of the "gun as source of all evil" argument. It's the grabbing of yet another headline just for the sake of "scoring a point" without considering if it's the best way or time to make the point. Now this particular poster doesn't give a fuck, but I'd suggest that most people consider other human beings to be something other than actors in a drama, with no other purpose than to illustrate points they find important.

This usually occurs to people right about the time a close friend dies, or a beloved relative, or someone else who means a lot to them other than as an extension of themselves.

As far as the whole gun thing is concerned, you'll notice I don't participate vigorously in those threads. It's in the Second; it's been interpreted a given way. It's heavily pushed in one direction by a minority of motivated people in the US, but that's how our system works. And we've made it so that money is a megaphone, too.

Wendy P.

So
Do think the same of Obama regarding his funeral speech in TX?

Same for you

Bet not!

It certainly would have been better if he'd danced a jig like GWB did.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[London86 0]

Within 24 hours of a tragedy where 84 people lose their lives and 50 fighting for their lives this whole post turns back on to the gun argument and there's another post mocking the whole event.

Nice one

[Bolas 5]

SkyDekker

Appearing to rejoice in the mass murder of people because it was perpetrated with an object that suits your particular argument is sickening.

Anyone that tries to exploit a tragedy to promote their agenda based on tools used in an attack is sickening. Wait until emotions lessen before proposing changes.

After a tragedy, we all should be coming together to heal. Part of that healing process is identifying and dealing with the attacker(s) and their (flawed) reasoning.

We have a large scale worldwide violence problem. The tools used are immaterial.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[winsor 185]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

Oh, yeah, he is as committed to everyone getting along as is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and David Duke.

Get a clue.

I don't know what is wrong with you this morning. But you can not possibly justify what you are implying with that. Because it is very clearly untrue. You don't really believe that BHO wants to racially divide the nation do you?

He may not want to, but he's stumbling his way through trying not to.

Like many old white men he has an issue with a person of colour holding a position higher then him.

Interesting guess.

I reserve the right to like or dislike someone, regardless of their race, gender, nationality, sexual preference or whatever.

If someone is gay and I think they are useless, that does not make me a "homophobe" (what a lousy use of language), if they are female and I think they are incompetent that does not make me a misogynist, if they are Norwegian and I can't stand them that does not make me anti-Scandinavian and so forth.

If someone does their job and does not make an issue of their sexuality, religion, race, gender or whatever, I prefer to focus on other factors.

If someone self-identifies with whatever group, and makes statements related to said self-identification, said affiliation is then fair game.

Obama likes to play the race card in such a way that he can take offense at anyone who calls him on playing the race card. I call bullshit.

In the same sense that finding a cure for a particular disease puts the charity related to that disease out of business (the March of Dimes narrowly dodged a bullet when Salk & Sabin resolved Polio), the people whose business is "racial equality" have to find racism under every rock or they are out of business.

Obama's pals Jackson and Sharpton depend on perceived racism for their quite comfortable living.

Rather than showing an identical level of concern for caucasians, orientals and negroes, there is a specified difference between the response to indignities visited upon the various groups, and that is racist. I do not distinguish between 'racism' and 'reverse racism' - it's all racism.

Obama has ridden racism like a surfer rides a wave, for his whole career. Good for him, he has become a pro at it.

Pointing out that the Emperors new clothes need ironing is not an unfair criticism.


BSBD,

Winsor

[mistercwood 287]

In this thread: A bunch of people being cunts about things unrelated to the source event purely for the sake of being cunts about things unrelated to the source event.

Bravo people. Well fucking done. I'll bet you've made your mothers so proud.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[winsor 185]

mistercwood

In this thread: A bunch of people being cunts about things unrelated to the source event purely for the sake of being cunts about things unrelated to the source event.

Bravo people. Well fucking done. I'll bet you've made your mothers so proud.

And precisely how should one address the ghastly turn of events in Nice?

The situation is so appalling that, like all too many people, I have been in shock since the news came across the wires. Pictures of little kids toys next to lifeless bodies are too close to home.

Oddly enough, humor is one of the ways people deal with the most ghastly circumstances. A New York Times article after the Challenger disaster discussed the process, and Jimmy Buffett put it succinctly that "if we couldn't laugh we would all go insane."

In the same sense that one should 'fly as far through the crash as possible' when things go to hell in the cockpit, one should 'respond, don't react' when provoked by events such as this. People who have been shaken to the core can make some very bad decisions, and it is a cold person who is not rattled by this kind of thing.

Making fun of people's tendency to 'Do Something!' by banning objects and the like serves to give pause, if nothing else.

It is ironic that the cure is often worse than the disease, and the worse the affliction, the more dreadful the treatment. Subjecting otherwise healthy prisoners to chemotherapy would constitute 'cruel and unusual punishment' by any standard.

Even though the author of this atrocity yelled "Allahu Akhbar!" before being dispatched and Daesh gleefully took credit - and my loathing for Islam is boundless - I think the reflexive blamestorming that is the norm at this juncture buys us nothing. As the Onion put it, "stereotypes are a real time saver."

I am not ready to laugh about this, but a gentle reminder that banning trucks is our usual approach to having a malevolent asshole kill people with one of them, and that it doesn't work.

The horrific nature of terrorism is the key to its success. A ghastly and photogenic outcome has a greater effect in behavior modification than more pervasive but banal threats. I know I am more likely to come to grief by being t-boned by a drunk than blown up by a terrorist, but the terrorist attacks in France have a more visceral impact than do traffic statistics.

The best thing we can do is grieve over the victims and shake it off as best we can. If we respond to viciousness with viciousness, he may not have won but we most certainly lose.

[mistercwood 287]

I'm all for poor taste jokes, hell I live for them. I got the irony in the OP, I just didn't see the tone as a joke - it looked like the usual point-scoring.

Even if it wasn't that and I just failed to see the intent due to being in text (entirely plausible), it was the dozens of pile-on comments that came after that added nothing whatsoever to discussion about this incident that set me off.

The events in Nice were, as you say, ghastly. I don't know how to address them, but I overall agree with the rest of your post.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.