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brenthutch

Study finds no racial bias in police shootings

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"A study by a Harvard professor released this month found no evidence of racial bias in police shootings even though officers were more likely to interact physically with non-whites than whites.
The paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, which examined thousands of incidents at 10 large police departments in California, Florida and Texas, concluded that police were no more likely to shoot non-whites than whites after factoring in extenuating circumstances.
“On the most extreme use of force — officer-involved shootings — we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account,” said Harvard economics professor Roland G. Fryer Jr. in the abstract of the July 2016 paper.
Mr. Fryer, who is black, told The New York Times that the finding of no racial discrimination in police shootings was “the most surprising result of my career.”"

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brenthutch

"A study by a Harvard professor released this month found no evidence of racial bias in police shootings even though officers were more likely to interact physically with non-whites than whites.
The paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, which examined thousands of incidents at 10 large police departments in California, Florida and Texas, concluded that police were no more likely to shoot non-whites than whites after factoring in extenuating circumstances.
“On the most extreme use of force — officer-involved shootings — we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account,” said Harvard economics professor Roland G. Fryer Jr. in the abstract of the July 2016 paper.
Mr. Fryer, who is black, told The New York Times that the finding of no racial discrimination in police shootings was “the most surprising result of my career.”"



And he basically admits he went in expecting a bias.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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The actual headline in the New York Times is "Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootings."

It's cherry picking season.

I think it speaks well of the study conductor that he admitted its not confirming his bias down the line. But selecting only the part that confirms one's own expectations for sharing says something as well.

There are, of course, criticisms of how the study was designed, and some about how it was conducted. That's how a academia works.

I read the article about the study in the Houston Chronicle; with Houston being one of the subject cities, it was well covered.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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brenthutch

"A study by a Harvard professor released this month found no evidence of racial bias in police shootings even though officers were more likely to interact physically with non-whites than whites.
The paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, which examined thousands of incidents at 10 large police departments in California, Florida and Texas, concluded that police were no more likely to shoot non-whites than whites after factoring in extenuating circumstances.
“On the most extreme use of force — officer-involved shootings — we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account,” said Harvard economics professor Roland G. Fryer Jr. in the abstract of the July 2016 paper.
Mr. Fryer, who is black, told The New York Times that the finding of no racial discrimination in police shootings was “the most surprising result of my career.”"



On further analysis it seems that the study focused on shootings when police encounters occur and factored out how often encounters happen. It doesn’t account for the disproportionate number of interactions between blacks and the police.

In other words, your conclusion is cherry picked from the original data.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

***"A study by a Harvard professor released this month found no evidence of racial bias in police shootings even though officers were more likely to interact physically with non-whites than whites.
The paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, which examined thousands of incidents at 10 large police departments in California, Florida and Texas, concluded that police were no more likely to shoot non-whites than whites after factoring in extenuating circumstances.
“On the most extreme use of force — officer-involved shootings — we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account,” said Harvard economics professor Roland G. Fryer Jr. in the abstract of the July 2016 paper.
Mr. Fryer, who is black, told The New York Times that the finding of no racial discrimination in police shootings was “the most surprising result of my career.”"



On further analysis it seems that the study focused on shootings when police encounters occur and factored out how often encounters happen. It doesn’t account for the disproportionate number of interactions between blacks and the police.

In other words, your conclusion is cherry picked from the original data.

Kinda like that climate change document did.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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turtlespeed

******"A study by a Harvard professor released this month found no evidence of racial bias in police shootings even though officers were more likely to interact physically with non-whites than whites.
The paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, which examined thousands of incidents at 10 large police departments in California, Florida and Texas, concluded that police were no more likely to shoot non-whites than whites after factoring in extenuating circumstances.
“On the most extreme use of force — officer-involved shootings — we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account,” said Harvard economics professor Roland G. Fryer Jr. in the abstract of the July 2016 paper.
Mr. Fryer, who is black, told The New York Times that the finding of no racial discrimination in police shootings was “the most surprising result of my career.”"



On further analysis it seems that the study focused on shootings when police encounters occur and factored out how often encounters happen. It doesn’t account for the disproportionate number of interactions between blacks and the police.

In other words, your conclusion is cherry picked from the original data.

Kinda like that climate change document did.

I guess you can't tell the difference between an original peer reviewed article in a scientific journal and the spin-doctored so-called analysis of an article from a known biased site (The Washington Times** is where brenthutch cut-and-pasted it from, although he presented it without attribution in a way clearly designed to make readers think it came from the NYT).

** The Washington Times is owned by a shell corporation that is in turn owned by Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Interesting. I believe I played the ball; care to comment? Or is the floor too slick with testosterone?

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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There seems to be a fair amount of attacking the story because we don't like the message going on here. Except of course for Wendy. The study is likely valid, as far as it goes, no matter who is reporting it.

It is limited in scope, and some of what it found is indeed surprising. What I take from it is that although people of color are more likely to have interactions with police by whites, when they do they are equally as likely to end up dead.

The study in no way addresses the fact that black men get more attention from the police. Since we are fairly sure they do, and often for no good reason, they should actually end up getting killed less often. When white men get stopped, it tends to more often be for a reason, therefore if all other things were equal they should end up being killed more often.

See, it's all in how you spin it. In the end it is a small study. But the results are both surprising and interesting. It could be that many LEOs are trigger happy on an equal basis. Some from fear, and some from loathing.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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normiss

You really need to understand the definition of "fact".
I think there over over one billion facts in his ownership, almost two if memory serves me.



Hmm - you steal my tablet to write that?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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So the idea is that the reason more blacks are charged with crimes is because the police unfairly target them?

Or is it that because the unemployment rate is so high for blacks that the crime rate must be higher?

I'm really not being a smart ass.....I'm trying to understand WHY black on black murder is so casually dismissed.

LEO have been under the microscope since Ferguson... I don't know how many LEO have killed a black man since then BUT I think four or five have been controversial - I wonder if that really is a surprise?

One is to many.....but why in God's name don't we see the out rage over so many of the other deaths? Because it isn't big news.

Black life's matter - they just don't matter near as much unless it a LEO that takes it.
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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You bring up good questions with tough answers. There are several issues going on here. And I don't have answers either because these are all intractable problems.

Quote

So the idea is that the reason more blacks are charged with crimes is because the police unfairly target them?



That is partly true. But it is also true that the crime rate in poorer areas is higher than in richer areas. It's not hard to understand that when you have less to lose you have less reasons to follow the rules. If you live where there is more crime you will see more police. Black on black violence is more common than other violence in large cities. And that means that law abiding peaceful black men look like people who are involved in violence.

White America has long had a fear of black men. They are on average bigger and stronger than white men. And they have historically had good reason to resent white society. Civic authorities have long felt that spending money on law enforcement in black areas is a good investment. While in the meantime property value based school taxes ensure that only in richer areas are schools fully funded. But, be assured, there is plenty of money to fund the insanely large prison system. So yes, the police and other authorities do unfairly target black society.

Quote

LEO have been under the microscope since Ferguson... I don't know how many LEO have killed a black man since then BUT I think four or five have been controversial - I wonder if that really is a surprise?



This has been going on forever. All that has changed is widespread video evidence. We have always believed what the police said about killings they did. And most police killings are completely justified. But a significant number are at least questionable, and a few are pretty much extra judicial executions. There has long been a code of honor among police that caused them to almost always look the other way when a brother did wrong. This removed accountability from the few who use violence inappropriately. Now video is bring some change to that.

We don't know yet how many of these killings are really crimes, but we do know that some are. Until we do know, there is going to be some distrust when deaths occur. Trust has been broken, and now it must be earned back.


Anyway, that's my take on it. It's not really an answer, it's just how it seems to me.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Thanks for a reasonable reply......

I'm not sure about the average black being bigger or stronger, not saying it not true just hadn't heard that. It seemed about the same when I was in school....

I think - and this may be controversial - that a large part of the problem is the disintegration of the two parent household that has effected the black community at a higher rate (to be fair the white community has recently started to catch up). I was raised by any standards in a lower class family money wise. No A/C....and in south Georgia that was rough, one car....ect, ect. BUT I did have two parents that loved me. I learned to work at an early age and was expected to work. yadda, yadda 5 miles uphill in the snow.... I know.

My point is that being poor isn't a reason and an excuse to fall into a life of crime. It is a choice.

Personally I believe all LEO should have body video if they carry a gun and if they use the gun it damn sure better be on.

Thanks again for a well thought out reply....we may not agree but its all food for thought.
Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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Quote

I'm not sure about the average black being bigger or stronger, not saying it not true just hadn't heard that. It seemed about the same when I was in school....



I'm basing this on very flimsy evidence. Namely the racial makeup of professional sports teams. Positions of strength and size are dominated by black men. I'm guilty of stereotyping.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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kallend

It doesn’t account for the disproportionate number of interactions between blacks and the police.



Because the majority of blacks live densely populated in large inner cities where there are 2-4 times as many cops per 1,000 people than in suburban/rural areas.

These disproportionate numbers of cops aren't there because of blacks - they are there because of higher crime rates that also contribute to the disproportionate number of interactions.

You can't blame police for demographics and higher crime rates in poverty stricken inner cities - it's a numbers game, not a blame game.
Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

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