A very bad night in Dallas

[wmw999 2,120]

One side being wrong does not make the other right. An article I read this morning seems to indicate that there is data showing that people of color are more likely to receive unfair treatment. That is likely to get them to feel targeted, just as police feel targeted, especially after last night in Dallas.

Whose sense of being targeted is more valuable? I'd suggest that both are.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 212]

Bolas

******Are you suggesting that police just assume any threatening behavior is just stupid behavior and take their chances?

Until the suspect actually reveals a weapon, yes, that is precisely what I am saying.

So any criminal that wants to shoot a cop just needs to keep their weapon hidden until they're ready to shoot or better yet, just shoot through their clothes.

Or if they want to attack a cop as long as they don't have a weapon that's fine.

Quote

As an ordinary civilian I don't get to kill someone just because they are fumbling around in their pockets in what I interpret as a threatening manner. Why should it be any different for a cop?

Now if the person actually does reveal a weapon then of course the cops can shoot in self defense.

As an ordinary citizen your job is not to investigate, search, detain, and arrest people.

Actually,

According to one side in this conversation, if you want to kill a cop, just wait for a protest to happen, then the killing should be buried into a lesser message, and not addressed until the murder of black males stops.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,120]

No, that's a simplistic and one-sided reading of what he's saying, just as someone who said that the protesters have no right to protest because the police are always right would be a simplistic and one-sided reading.

This isn't a zero-sum game, except for the people losing their lives, and the families and friends of those people.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Bolas

******Maybe these are different, but have yet to see any incident where the police just shot a person in full compliance.

In the case of Alton Sterling the police had him completely pinned to the ground --the police had complete control of the situation --and they still shot him. This doesn't justify the actions of the two non peaceful people tonight in Dallas. But there is a reason why people are angry at cops and I don't think the cops are sensitive enough to that.

Just watched the videos but would not say they had complete control plus he was armed. Will need to wait until investigation is complete.

The one in Missouri seems to be along your lines. Stopped for broken tail light. Informs officer he is licensed to carry and has a gun. Officer asks to see his driver's license. Then proceeds to shoot him four times in front of his girlfriend and with his 4 year old daughter in the back seat.

Then, in stead of rendering first aid, he keeps his gun on him until he bleeds out and dies.

There is also another video of a man being told to get his ID and as he reaches in his truck gets shot.

There is also another video of a man running away and getting shot in the back.

I am sure there are many more.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

turtlespeed

*********Are you suggesting that police just assume any threatening behavior is just stupid behavior and take their chances?

Until the suspect actually reveals a weapon, yes, that is precisely what I am saying.

So any criminal that wants to shoot a cop just needs to keep their weapon hidden until they're ready to shoot or better yet, just shoot through their clothes.

Or if they want to attack a cop as long as they don't have a weapon that's fine.

Quote

As an ordinary civilian I don't get to kill someone just because they are fumbling around in their pockets in what I interpret as a threatening manner. Why should it be any different for a cop?

Now if the person actually does reveal a weapon then of course the cops can shoot in self defense.

As an ordinary citizen your job is not to investigate, search, detain, and arrest people.

Actually,

According to one side in this conversation, if you want to kill a cop, just wait for a protest to happen, then the killing should be buried into a lesser message, and not addressed until the murder of black males stops.

What an incredibly retarded statement. I see you are in full blown troll mode again.

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

No, that's a simplistic and one-sided reading of what he's saying, just as someone who said that the protesters have no right to protest because the police are always right would be a simplistic and one-sided reading.

This isn't a zero-sum game, except for the people losing their lives, and the families and friends of those people.

Wendy P.

I have a hard time justifying the belittlement of the cops being shot. It is obvious in his writings that no other crime outweighs the death of a black male by a police officer.

Not mass murder, not Suicide bombing, not Child murder . . . Nothing angers him more than police killing the unarmed.

His words:

Quote

No crime makes me as angry as the police killing of an unarmed person.

Tell me again about simplistic - one sided reading?
.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[gowlerk 1,904]

There is and will be a lot of passion here. In the light of day I now see it as very similar to what Dylan Roof did. A person of one race targeted members of another race because of the hatred he felt. Neither of these people had even the slightest justification. And neither is a true representative of their people.

The main reason behind the two recent police shootings is fear. Both sides are now going to have even more fear. As well as more anger.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[turtlespeed 212]

gowlerk

There is and will be a lot of passion here. In the light of day I now see it as very similar to what Dylan Roof did. A person of one race targeted members of another race because of the hatred he felt. Neither of these people had even the slightest justification. And neither is a true representative of their people.

The main reason behind the two recent police shootings is fear. Both sides are now going to have even more fear. As well as more anger.

To whom are you comparing Dylan Roof, and the abundance of passion?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mpohl 1]

A very observant comment...

"America is becoming Afghanistan.

People are armed to the teeth with high power military style weapons.
Anyone can buy guns just about anywhere.
No restrictions on ammunition purchases.
Armor piercing ammo is readily available.
Many states now have both open carry and conceal carry and many of those do not require a permit or any training.
Law enforcement is terrified of the pubic.
The public is terrified of law enforcement.
The government through police brutality openly oppresses certain minorities.
Politicians have lost respect for law enforcement when they don't get a politically desired conviction.
We have state sanctioned dungeons called prisons that are busting at the seams from overcrowding.
We do nothing to counter massive inequality and hopelessness which breeds contempt and lack of respect for government.
We are on the verge of electing a demagogue for president who knows nothing but talks tough and rails against everything.
His opponent ignores legal requirements of office for convenience.
Congress is completely dysfunctional, accomplishes nothing and thinks its job is to gum up the works so no problems can be addressed. This is done in opposition to the duly elected leader whom whey have no respect for.
Mass shootings have become commonplace.

About the only hurdle left are roadside IEDs and suicide car bombs.

All because of politics, fanatic ideology, corruption in the form of campaign financing and lobbyists, and a misinterpreted 2nd amendment."

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

It is beginning, the SHTF is coming upon us. I believe I have mentioned this in the past.

From a cursory search you've been saying this crap for the last 3 YEARS.
If shit is coming, it's doing so very slowly. And giving all the signs of improving economy, employment, you know - society.

In the last 3 years I've bought a house. Been promoted. Been travelling. Made loads of new friends. Lived.
What have you been doing except cowering in the hills waiting for the (eventual) collapse of society? Does it piss you off to see another year go by when YET AGAIN the world keeps turning?

You've been wrong every time so far with your doom saying. You'll keep being wrong. You have a 100% inaccuracy record.

And that's to say nothing of the tastelessness of doing your wierd end-of-the-world gloating thing in a thread talking about the murder of police officers. Your priorities are so far out of whack that I'd be surprised if you could even relate to normal society anymore.

[wmw999 2,120]

I at least think he's comparing Dylan Roof to the Dallas shooter. At least that's how I take it.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[London86 0]

Well, I'm glad i didn't go out last night, I was invited to a friends birthday at a bar in downtown Dallas, i didn't get out of work in time so stayed in Fort Worth.

As a non american i just can't get my head around all of this.

I understand the reasoning and movement of the black lives matter protest, but i wonder how much the media plays a part in this. There was a killing of an unarmed white man by police in Fresno last week - I've not heard a thing about that in mainstream media.

If you're not complying with Police, no matter what color you are - you're asking for trouble. I'm not saying this justifies shooting anybody - but if everyone just complied and did as they asked, there would be a lot less of these "white cop kills black man" stupid media headlines.

[RonD1120 58]

Warning is not gloating. Normal society is a relative term depending on location.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Rstanley0312 0]

SivaGanesha

*** No excuse, no reason can even begin to explain this act of terrorism. This is not an act of protest.

The police in this country have to stop murdering young black men. Period.

While what happened in Dallas tonight was wrong, the police in this country should be first and foremost apologizing for their role in murdering young black men and only secondarily focusing on their own losses.

Sorry, but that is bullshit. The "police" in this country should not have to focus on either one. They should be able to say both are equally wrong and evil. "They" as a profession or as you lumped them all together "the police in this country" did not have a role in murdering young black men..... individuals did ....that wore badges. Black people in this country murder more people than any other race... sadly they tend to kill each other in broken communities but I sure as sh!t and not going to say all black people are to blame and need to apologize. Why is there always a bend to these attrocities? It' not okay to blame a group, profession, race in this situation but in this situation over here.... it is.....?

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[normiss 622]

Except the most recent incident, he was entirely complying when he was murdered by cop.
While I understand the frustration of the black community feeling as if they are being hunted and their lives are of lesser value, this isn't the way we deal with this.
This will increase fear on both sides of the blue line.
More guns, to be sure.

Gotta give it to Dallas in a much cleaner use of an explosive to end this than did Philly.

[London86 0]

normiss

Except the most recent incident, he was entirely complying when he was murdered by cop.

My bad - wasn't fully aware of that from what I'd read. (More media choice wording)

normiss

More guns, to be sure.

Just the amount of people I've seen on my social media saying they're going out to buy more guns and stocking on ammo this morning is crazy

And then there's me with my nerf gun

[rushmc 18]

It is getting worse

Obama and the Dems have already turned this into a political football regarding gun control.

Dumb asses

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

no extra comments here - I'm going to the corner of the room where Wendy and Gowlerk and RStanley and London are. I'll hang out with that group.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mpohl 1]

Gun advocates often say that a citizen right to firearms is necessary to protect against tyranny. Last night, it seems that some people in Dallas may have used that right to combat what they see as tyranny: the killing of innocent civilians by police officers.

Allowing anyone to have the right to combat what they see as tyranny in the most extreme way possible means that everyone will have that right. Giving people powerful weapons to combat "tyranny" may seem like a good idea when you agree with them, but different people define that term differently. Giving people the right to decide who lives or dies whenever they think it's necessary is clearly a recipe for disaster.

Take away the guns.

rushmc

It is getting worse

Obama and the Dems have already turned this into a political football regarding gun control.

Dumb asses

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

London86

***Except the most recent incident, he was entirely complying when he was murdered by cop.

My bad - wasn't fully aware of that from what I'd read. (More media choice wording)

normiss

More guns, to be sure.

Just the amount of people I've seen on my social media saying they're going out to buy more guns and stocking on ammo this morning is crazy

And then there's me with my nerf gun

First off, there's a bit of a difference between "shooting an unarmed suspect" when that suspect presents a clear threat (unarmed doesn't necessarily mean not a threat), and shooting someone who is under control (like the one in Baton Rouge) or someone who is complying with orders, but not in an appropriate way (like the one in Minnesota).

Or simply pulling up on a scene, pulling out a gun and opening fire (like the ones in both Cleveland and Chicago).

Second off, most of the people who are "going out to buy more guns and stock up on ammo" aren't worried about unrest or Ron's "Shit hitting the fan."
They are more worried about potential restrictions being introduced, and shortages from panic buying (which those very people are creating).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 1,904]

wmw999

I at least think he's comparing Dylan Roof to the Dallas shooter. At least that's how I take it.

Wendy P.

Yes, that was my meaning. I'm on the road today and I can't keep up.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Gotta give it to Dallas in a much cleaner use of an explosive to end this than did Philly

Not sure yet how I feel about this. Would like to know a bit more information, like if simply waiting was an option. Seems a bit like an execution....or drone strike.

[cruelpops 0]

SkyDekker

Quote

Gotta give it to Dallas in a much cleaner use of an explosive to end this than did Philly

Not sure yet how I feel about this. Would like to know a bit more information, like if simply waiting was an option. Seems a bit like an execution....or drone strike.

It was a good kill... why do they need to wait for anything. The shooter didn't wait to see if he had any feelings about shooting the police officers. I love the form of justice used by the Dallas police officers.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

cruelpops

***

Quote

Gotta give it to Dallas in a much cleaner use of an explosive to end this than did Philly

Not sure yet how I feel about this. Would like to know a bit more information, like if simply waiting was an option. Seems a bit like an execution....or drone strike.

It was a good kill... why do they need to wait for anything. The shooter didn't wait to see if he had any feelings about shooting the police officers. I love the form of justice used by the Dallas police officers.

That's exactly the attitude I would have a problem with. Kind of the same attitude that leads to people ambushing cops.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Just out of curiosity, do you have any examples of the police shooting a suspect that was in full compliance with their instructions?

Yes, at the least there are several examples that have been posted here over the years of people who were told to fetch their ID being shot for putting a hand in their pocket/car door/dash.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?