Obama's legacy

[gowlerk 1,910]

brenthutch

***>Wanna bet on that?

Of course he doesn't. That way he can predict the imminent demise of the system again in two weeks.

Ok I sharpened my pencil, and it turns out that my ten day prediction was less than precise. With ten million enrollees and a loss rate of 50,000 per day, it would actually take 200 days.

Perfect, it will be the first crisis of the Clinton administration. I wonder what kind of Congress she will have to cope with? It should be a real challenger for her.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[brenthutch 383]

The best possible outcome for the Dems is that they win the White House and the Senate, the House of Reps is out of reach, so no legislative solution, and as jerry pointed out, no legislation no Obamacare fix, no fix... Obamacare dies.

[ryoder 1,382]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Bill,

Quote

Pretty much every republican prediction on Obamacare - that it would send the US into a recession, that it would reduce the number of people covered, that it would cost jobs, that death panels will kill your grandma

I know a lot of people on here do not go back that far, but this is exactly what the R's were saying when Medicare was passed.

How many people in this country would vote to dismantle Medicare?

Jerry Baumchen

Some googling turned up:

[I]"If you don’t stop Medicare and I don’t do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free."
-- Ronald Reagan 1961

"socialized medicine."
-- George H.W. Bush 1964

"Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink."
-- Barry Goldwater

"I was there, fighting the fight, voting against Medicare . . . because we knew it wouldn’t work in 1965."
-- Bob Dole 1965

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2009/07/29/170887/medicare-44/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[gowlerk 1,910]

brenthutch

The best possible outcome for the Dems is that they win the White House and the Senate, the House of Reps is out of reach, so no legislative solution, and as jerry pointed out, no legislation no Obamacare fix, no fix... Obamacare dies.

The law would still be in place. There is no sunset or failure clause. So, as usual these days the crisis would force that dirtiest of words to come into play. Yes children, COMPROMISE. There, I said it. The two parties would need to compromise. I know, it's scary to think about. But it actually has been done before, and it will be done again. It's the real in realpolitik. It used to be the American way. You can do it. It won't kill you. Swallow your pride and do the dirty deed that must be done. It will hurt in the morning, like waking up beside a regret. But life will go on and people will be insured. I'll bet you on it!

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[brenthutch 383]

ryoder

***Hi Bill,

Quote

Pretty much every republican prediction on Obamacare - that it would send the US into a recession, that it would reduce the number of people covered, that it would cost jobs, that death panels will kill your grandma

I know a lot of people on here do not go back that far, but this is exactly what the R's were saying when Medicare was passed.

How many people in this country would vote to dismantle Medicare?

Jerry Baumchen

Some googling turned up:

[I]"If you don’t stop Medicare and I don’t do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free."
-- Ronald Reagan 1961

"socialized medicine."
-- George H.W. Bush 1964

"Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink."
-- Barry Goldwater

"I was there, fighting the fight, voting against Medicare . . . because we knew it wouldn’t work in 1965."
-- Bob Dole 1965

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2009/07/29/170887/medicare-44/

"If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it"

Anyway it goes bankrupt in 14 years leaving Gen Xers and Millennials a bunch of worthless IOUs. Ask them how awesome it is to be financially raped by their grandparents.

[Coreeece 2]

brenthutch

***>Wanna bet on that?

Of course he doesn't. That way he can predict the imminent demise of the system again in two weeks.

Ok I sharpened my pencil, and it turns out that my ten day prediction was less than precise. With ten million enrollees and a loss rate of 50,000 per day, it would actually take 200 days.

Wow, just in time to Blame Trump®

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[turtlespeed 212]

gowlerk

Quote

I have always been a proponent of national healthcare being an expanded version of Medicare.

And that was and is part of the ACA. Except in some red states.

OK - so what is the point of this post, Captain Obvious?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,396]

>Ok I sharpened my pencil, and it turns out that my ten day prediction was less than
>precise. With ten million enrollees and a loss rate of 50,000 per day, it would actually
>take 200 days.

OK so we will check back on Wednesday, Feb 1 2017 to see if the ACA is "dead" - or if we will add yet another quote to the long list of failed predictions about the demise of the ACA.

[billvon 2,396]

>OK - so what is the point of this post, Captain Obvious?

That function you have "always been a proponent of" is central to an act that you attack at every opportunity.

Comparison you might better understand - a democrat who attacks Bush's fiscal policies at every opportunity but lauds the bailout package because he thinks that Obama created it.

[turtlespeed 212]

***>OK - so what is the point of this post, Captain Obvious?

>>That function you have "always been a proponent of" is to an act that you attack every opportunity.

>>Comparison you might understand - a democrat who attacks Bush's policies at but lauds the package because he thinks that Obama created it.

You should really not leave out bits and parts of what I posted, eh?

You forgot a part, but you know that.

You must know your attempt to belittle me would be dismissed had you included the entire message.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[johnhking1 70]

JerryBaumchen

Hi brent,

Quote

Why doesn't Obama make the needed changes?

Our gov't. does not work that way. The ACA was an act of Congress, they are the only ones who can change it.

Pres. Obama could veto or approve any change(s) presented to him.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) ACA = Affordable Care Act

Are you saying it is not real, it's just an Act

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

>Ok I sharpened my pencil, and it turns out that my ten day prediction was less than
>precise. With ten million enrollees and a loss rate of 50,000 per day, it would actually
>take 200 days.

OK so we will check back on Wednesday, Feb 1 2017 to see if the ACA is "dead" - or if we will add yet another quote to the long list of failed predictions about the demise of the ACA.

No need to wait.

"A thorough repudiation of the (un-)Affordable Care Act comes from, of all places, state-run National Public Radio. Timed to be buried by Super Tuesday coverage, NPR this week released a new study that indicates that Obamacare has failed on almost all levels.

The poll, by NPR, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, shows that three quarters of Americans think health care in their state has not improved under Obamacare. The survey says more people think health care has gotten worse (26%) than better (15%). Forty-nine percent of people think health care has stayed about the same.

And I hope you haven’t been making plans of what to do with that $2,500 a year you’ll be saving on premiums. The NPR poll confirms that that was just another in Obama’s litany of lies. Forty-five percent of respondents said their premiums had gone up, while 46% said their premiums had stayed about the same. Only 4% said their premiums had actually gone down, as Obama promised they would.

Along with higher premiums, co-pays and deductibles have gone up for 35% of people. Fifty-six percent say they’ve stayed about the same. Again, only 4% of those surveyed said their copays and deductibles have actually gone down.

Meanwhile, the increased benefits Obama swore we’d get apparently haven’t materialized. Seventy percent of people said their benefits have stayed about the same. Twelve percent said their benefits have actually decreased. Only 16% of people polled said they have better benefits now than before Obamacare."

[billvon 2,396]

>No need to wait.

>"A thorough repudiation of the (un-)Affordable Care Act . . .

You didn't say that in 100 days people would be bitching about the ACA. They do now and they will then; nothing will change. Heck, I am sure you will still be here claiming that it's worse than 9/11 and that Obama really did kill people's grandmas.

You said that it would be dead in 100 days; no more Obamacare. That's what we will wait to see on. I suspect you will fail as badly as all the other people who have predicted the same thing for the past six years or so.

[brenthutch 383]

What I said was, "With ten million enrollees and a loss rate of 50,000 per day, it would actually take 200 days." That is just math.

Anyway the real pain doesn't doesn't come until 2017, when the training wheels come off.

[brenthutch 383]

Something closer to home for BillV

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-covered-california-rates-20160718-snap-story.html

"Premiums for Californians’ Obamacare health coverage will rise by an average of 13.2% next year — more than three times the increase of the last two years and a jump that is bound to raise debate"

[headoverheels 291]

brenthutch

Something closer to home for BillV

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-covered-california-rates-20160718-snap-story.html

"Premiums for Californians’ Obamacare health coverage will rise by an average of 13.2% next year — more than three times the increase of the last two years and a jump that is bound to raise debate"

You do realize the medical insurance premiums had been going up at pretty much that rate for years pre-Obama, do you not? We need to have single payer, and also provide free medical education (as does France, in return for 12 hours per week free services for the duration of the career), and probably do something about the liability issue.

[billvon 2,396]

>"Premiums for Californians’ Obamacare health coverage will rise by an average of
>13.2% next year — more than three times the increase of the last two years and a
>jump that is bound to raise debate"

From the same article:

"Price growth for next year's premiums is driven by rising health costs for a population that has turned out to be more expensive to insure than anticipated. Officials also blame rising prescription drug costs and people who hold off buying coverage until they get sick."

[brenthutch 383]

"people who hold off buying coverage until they get sick."

A direct result of Obamacare. Remember the "no denial for pre-existing conditions", what did you expect?

This from just a few hours ago

"Government Report Finds That ObamaCare Medicaid Enrollees Much More Expensive Than Expected"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/07/20/government-report-finds-that-obamacare-medicaid-enrollees-much-more-expensive-than-expected/

[wmw999 2,121]

I know. Sucks that they just can't keep going to the emergency room, or dying, with those costs being hidden because we're used to them.

Until we, as a country, quit with the "I want to live exactly as I please, eat as I please, sit on my butt as I please, and take a pill to fix it" lifestyle, it's not likely to get better. Believe it or not, some things are better prevented at some cost, than fixed at a higher cost.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[brenthutch 383]

wmw999

Until we, as a country, quit with the "I want to live exactly as I please, eat as I please, sit on my butt as I please, and take a pill to fix it" lifestyle, it's not likely to get better.
Wendy P.

At least not until the costs associated with those behaviors are born by those engaged in them.

[normiss 622]

Yet you repeatedly tell us they cannot, due to rising costs.
It's interesting you just justified the opposite end of your argument.

[brenthutch 383]

You missed the point

[brenthutch 383]

"Humana, one of the nation’s top health insurers, is pulling out of ObamaCare plans in all but a handful of states after a year of nearly $1 billion in losses."

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/288772-humana-to-leave-substantially-all-obamacare-markets

[turtlespeed 212]

brenthutch

"Humana, one of the nation’s top health insurers, is pulling out of ObamaCare plans in all but a handful of states after a year of nearly $1 billion in losses."

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/288772-humana-to-leave-substantially-all-obamacare-markets

What will happen to all of the no longer insured?

If you like your plan - you can keep your plan . . .

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,623]

I see the S&P 500 closed at yet another record high today. Clearly the market is spooked by Trump's vision of distopia.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.