Obama's legacy

[SkyDekker 1,121]

turtlespeed

***

Quote

I'm glad you are so proud to be the home of so many criminals and traitors. Good for you.

I wish they had stayed. Most of them went home when Carter pardoned them.

You were speaking in future terms.

Glad to hear you are up to the challenge of harboring fugitives and aiding and abetting criminals. Again, good for you. Gotta love those morals.

Stop invading countries without valid reasons.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

I'm glad you are so proud to be the home of so many criminals and traitors. Good for you.

I wish they had stayed. Most of them went home when Carter pardoned them.

You were speaking in future terms.

Glad to hear you are up to the challenge of harboring fugitives and aiding and abetting criminals. Again, good for you. Gotta love those morals.

Stop invading countries without valid reasons.

There is no correlation between your statement and the conversation.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

There is no correlation between your statement and the conversation.

So you think those draft dodgers would had fled to Canada even if the US was not involved in Vietnam?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[SkyDekker 1,121]

turtlespeed

*********

Quote

I'm glad you are so proud to be the home of so many criminals and traitors. Good for you.

I wish they had stayed. Most of them went home when Carter pardoned them.

You were speaking in future terms.

Glad to hear you are up to the challenge of harboring fugitives and aiding and abetting criminals. Again, good for you. Gotta love those morals.

Stop invading countries without valid reasons.

There is no correlation between your statement and the conversation.

Jawohl

[billvon 2,384]

>The young, healthy and wealthy are not enrolling the old, sick and poor are.

Both sets (young and healthy vs old and sick) are enrolling - which was exactly what it was intended to accomplish. (2.1 million adults between the ages of 18 and 34 enrolled in 2015, compared to 1.1 million for 2014.) Enrollment is up across the board.

Sorry about the facts.

[brenthutch 383]

I'm talking about results not intentions

"With providers fleeing and rates rising, the individual marketplace for ‘Obamacare’ policies is ‘a looming catastrophe of astronomical proportions’"

https://www.businessreport.com/business/providers-fleeing-rates-rising-individual-marketplace-obamacare-policies-looming-catastrophe-astronomical-proportions

From the AP:
"Enrollment has been lower than hoped for, and customers turned out to be sicker than expected. Some major insurance companies have cut back their participation, and 13 of 23 nonprofit insurance co-ops created under the law have folded. Premiums for 2017 are expected to be significantly higher."

Ring the bell, class in session!
Higher premiums = lower participation = higher cost = higher premiums
It is a little thing I call economics. Class dismissed!

[Coreeece 2]

brenthutch

I'm talking about results not intentions

Bullshit, you also were talking about medicaid. How the fuck are those people gonna be taken care of?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[brenthutch 383]

Coreeece

***I'm talking about results not intentions

Bullshit, you also were talking about medicaid. How the fuck are those people gonna be taken care of?

Sorry, my bad. I conflated Medicare with Obamacare. What I meant to convey was that the only people benefiting from Obamacare, are the ones getting government subsidies. Those who are actually bearing the true costs are being screwed and are dropping out, without legislative fixes, i.e. taxpayer bailouts of the insurance companies, it is doomed, and predictably so.

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

The USA has the world's largest prison population.

Yes - and that's part of the reason why the gun related murder rate has dropped nearly 50% in the last 20 years.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

American You:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8MratH51eY

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

Ya, I figured as much - I was just in a bad mood. I get kinda liberal when I get all pissed off. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[billvon 2,384]

>I'm talking about results not intentions

And I am talking about what actually happened, not what scares you in your imagination.

>"the individual marketplace for ‘Obamacare’ policies is ‘a looming catastrophe of
>astronomical proportions’"

Ah, so it's not a catastrophe, but you imagine it might be looming. Someday.

>"Enrollment has been lower than hoped for"

And far higher than republicans predicted.

>It is a little thing I call economicsmy imagination.

And a wonderful imagination it is!

[brenthutch 383]

This was happening at the same time at the same time you were penning your cute snarky reply. Or did I imagine this too?

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/287085-oregon-obamacare-co-op-latest-failure-in-troubled-program

"Oregon’s nonprofit ObamaCare health insurance co-op is winding down operations due to financial problems, the second such announcement this week for the troubled co-op program.
The announcement is just the latest in a long string of failures of ObamaCare’s co-ops, non-profit health insurers set up to increase competition with established insurers. Before this week, just 10 of the original 23 co-ops remained functioning...
Oregon’s Department of Consumer and Business Services (DCBS) announced Friday that it is taking over the insurer, known as Oregon’s Health CO-OP, and will liquidate the company.

The plan’s 20,600 enrollees will be forced to find new health insurance"

Yawn...too easy.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi brent,

Quote

Oregon’s nonprofit ObamaCare health insurance co-op is winding down . . .

The problem(s) in Oregon have nothing to do with ObamaCare itself. It is the result of a failed contract with a company that had been hired to setup the program for Oregon. A lotta lawsuits going back & forth right now.

Jerry Baumchen

[brenthutch 383]

Hi jerry,

Thirteen failed co-ops, and more on the way. Something tells me it may be something a bit more systemic.

[gowlerk 1,903]

brenthutch

Hi jerry,

Thirteen failed co-ops, and more on the way. Something tells me it may be something a bit more systemic.

'
Yup, Obamacare is a POS that can not continue in it's present form. It was what could get through your chicken shit weak kneed congress at the time. Even though D's were in the majority too many of them knuckled under to the threat of being called socialists willing to help the undeserving lower classes get healthcare. Politics is after all, the art of the possible.

But don't worry, when the inevitable financial collapse comes your country will be forced to fix it.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

But don't worry, when the inevitable financial collapse comes your country will be forced to fix it.

Ya, we'll just become part of a larger global economy where you guys are forced to pay for it, one way or another. How else are we gonna afford the healthcare of 80 million people that don't work, along with the other 10 million that can't find a job or refuse to work?

That's like 3 times your total population - is it even fathomable?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

How else are we gonna afford the healthcare of 80 million people that don't work, along with the other 10 million that can't find a job or refuse to work?

All the other western societies do it, and you will manage too. You already spend more per capita on health care than anyone else. Your system is very inefficient. But you are correct, fear, jealousy and suspicion of others is what holds you back.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[brenthutch 383]

gowlerk

***Hi jerry,

Thirteen failed co-ops, and more on the way. Something tells me it may be something a bit more systemic.

'

But don't worry, when the inevitable financial collapse comes your country will be forced to fix it.

With free stuff for everybody! I can hardly wait.

http://youtu.be/_Ojd13kZlCA
I sure hope HRC has a stash.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

Quote

How else are we gonna afford the healthcare of 80 million people that don't work, along with the other 10 million that can't find a job or refuse to work?

All the other western societies do it, and you will manage too. You already spend more per capita on health care than anyone else.

Yes, which is contributing to our debt and the impending financial collapse that you were referring to. 6 trillion of that debt is own by people like you - thanks! I'm sure there's more where that came from.

gowlerk

Your system is very inefficient.

Quality is expensive.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[brenthutch 383]

"You can your healthcare good, fast or cheap...pick two"

[Phil1111 908]

Coreeece

***

Quote

How else are we gonna afford the healthcare of 80 million people that don't work, along with the other 10 million that can't find a job or refuse to work?

All the other western societies do it, and you will manage too. You already spend more per capita on health care than anyone else.

Yes, which is contributing to our debt and the impending financial collapse that you were referring to. 6 trillion of that debt is own by people like you - thanks! I'm sure there's more where that came from.

gowlerk

Your system is very inefficient.

Quality is expensive.

Buddy... you've been drinking the kool-aid of the US health care industry.

Three links to separate stories covering virtually all the issues uf US heath care. IMO health care, drug industry and special interest lobbying control US government policy.

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21645855-growth-americas-health-care-spending-slowing-will-obamacare-cut-costs

https://epianalysis.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/usversuseurope/

"One reason for the more expensive mix in the U.S. is it produces more income for drug manufacturers, specialist physicians, and others who have considerable influence on policy. Second, some patients prefer the more expensive mix, just as some prefer to shop at Whole Foods rather than Walmart. Third, some workers mistakenly believe that employers pay for their healthcare and that more expensive means better care. Health economists believe that the premiums for employer-sponsored insurance come out of potential wages. Similarly, the extra money the government spends for health could be used for education, infrastructure, the environment, and other public investment, but these alternatives are not readily apparent or agreed upon. Does the more expensive mix result in better health outcomes? There are no definitive studies to answer this question. Superficially, it appears that the systems in the other countries are more effective because their life expectancy is higher. But their advantage may be attributable to non-medical factors such as significantly lower poverty rates.

A second important reason for higher healthcare spending in the U.S. is higher prices for inputs such as drugs and the services of specialist physicians. The prices of branded prescription drugs in the U.S. are, on average, about double those in other countries. The fees of specialist physicians are typically two to three times as high as in other countries. The lower prices and fees abroad are achieved by negotiation and controls by governments who typically pay for about 75 percent of all medical care. Government in the U.S. pays about 50 percent, which would still confer considerable bargaining power, but the government is kept from exerting it by legislation and a Congress sensitive to interest-group lobbying.

The third and last important reason for higher spending in the U.S. is high administrative costs of insurance. This includes private insurance which covers more than half the insured population. Each year scores of insurance companies must estimate appropriate premiums for plans they wish to sell to several million employers plus 20 to 30 million individuals. In addition, hospitals, clinics, and individual physicians incur substantial costs in billing for each test, visit, and procedure regardless of whether they are covered by private or public insurance or self-pay. Many of our peer countries have lower administrative costs through more coordination, standardization, and in some countries a single national system or several regional healthcare-insurance systems, even when the provision of care is primarily a private-sector responsibility."
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/why-do-other-rich-nations-spend-so-much-less-on-healthcare/374576/

^^^^ Many other good points in the story.

[Coreeece 2]

Phil1111

******

Quote

How else are we gonna afford the healthcare of 80 million people that don't work, along with the other 10 million that can't find a job or refuse to work?

All the other western societies do it, and you will manage too. You already spend more per capita on health care than anyone else.

Yes, which is contributing to our debt and the impending financial collapse that you were referring to. 6 trillion of that debt is own by people like you - thanks! I'm sure there's more where that came from.

gowlerk

Your system is very inefficient.

Quality is expensive.

Buddy... you've been drinking the kool-aid of the US health care industry.

Growing up, my impression was that we had some of the best healthcare in the world. I'll agree that we seem to be paying more for less in the last 10 years or so - the last few years seemed the worse, but what do you expect when capitalism is allowed to run amok?

btw, thanks for the links.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[brenthutch 383]

Ten years ago when my dad was in the Cleveland clinic, I shared a hospital shuttle with some Saudis. I asked them what brought them to the States, they essentially told me they wanted the best health care money could buy so they passed on Europe and came to the US.

[Coreeece 2]

brenthutch

Ten years ago when my dad was in the Cleveland clinic, I shared a hospital shuttle with some Saudis. I asked them what brought them to the States, they essentially told me they wanted the best health care money could buy so they passed on Europe and came to the US.

Canadians are still coming to Detroit for healthcare services that aren't readily available over there.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour