Obama's legacy

[SkyDekker 1,122]

rushmc

***

Quote

It will not be federally or state funded

Call it Medicare or Medicaid, or whatever. Health care will be publicly funded in some way.

No, it will not.
That is not what the voters want.

Looks like the popular vote went to Clinton, which would make your statement "trump true". At least for now.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

brenthutch

***Yep. Obama's legacy will be demolished. That will include Obamacare and his efforts on climate change.
Congrats.

You say that like it's a bad thing.With any luck, you and RushMC will be able to pick up a few bucks going through the hospitals looking for patients with insurance through Obamacare, unplugging them from their chemotherapy, and dumping them out in the parking lot. It's dirty work, but someone will have to do it. In fact, you guys are so gleeful about the end of Obamacare I suspect you'd be happy to do it just for shits and giggles.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[brenthutch 383]

GeorgiaDon

******Yep. Obama's legacy will be demolished. That will include Obamacare and his efforts on climate change.
Congrats.

You say that like it's a bad thing.With any luck, you and RushMC will be able to pick up a few bucks going through the hospitals looking for patients with insurance through Obamacare, unplugging them from their chemotherapy, and dumping them out in the parking lot. It's dirty work, but someone will have to do it. In fact, you guys are so gleeful about the end of Obamacare I suspect you'd be happy to do it just for shits and giggles.

Don

I guess that is the DZ.com equivalent of "push mama from the cliff". Thanks for playing.

[brenthutch 383]

Tom Price just tapped for HHS. Talk about putting the fox in charge of the hen house. Chuck Schumer seen pooping his pants.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Tom Price is great news for many people!

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/11/30/503760677/millions-of-people-are-having-an-easier-time-paying-medical-bills

[airdvr 197]

"There are millions of people who have coverage under Obamacare," Angoff says. "What are they going to tell those guys?"

$5,000.00 deductibles don't equal healthcare. It's more likely impacted by the jobs situation.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi airdvr,

Quote

$5,000.00 deductibles don't equal healthcare.

If you mean that a $5,000 deductible is not really a good healthcare plan, then a lot of Americans do not have a really good healthcare plan.

My private healthcare plan has a $3500 deductible ( only one person on the plan ). My son's family's private healthcare plan has a $9,000 deductible.

And people complain about ObamaCare.

Jerry Baumchen

[airdvr 197]

JerryBaumchen

Hi airdvr,

Quote

$5,000.00 deductibles don't equal healthcare.

If you mean that a $5,000 deductible is not really a good healthcare plan, then a lot of Americans do not have a really good healthcare plan.

My private healthcare plan has a $3500 deductible ( only one person on the plan ). My son's family's private healthcare plan has a $9,000 deductible.

And people complain about ObamaCare.

Jerry Baumchen

The difference being you can probably afford it. Most of the ACA folks who purchased through the exchanges don't even understand the meaning of the word deductible. Boy are they gonna be pissed when they actually have to use it.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[gowlerk 1,912]

Quote

The difference being you can probably afford it. Most of the ACA folks who purchased through the exchanges don't even understand the meaning of the word deductible. Boy are they gonna be pissed when they actually have to use it.

I think you are grossly underestimating the average American.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[PhreeZone 15]

I purposely I have a $5000+ delectable for my plan for my family and it works fine as long as you treat it like the plan that it is. I used to have a plan with a much lower deductible but it was costing me a lot more per month out of pocket. I did that math that if I jumped over to a High Deductible plan and rolled the difference between what I was paying with the "Premium" level plan and the new plan into a HSA (that I was now eligible for) I was in a much better spot than I was under the Low Deductible plan. My family was not frequenting the doctor that much so for us it worked out that our total Dr visits were only costing us $300-400 a year. It has changed our behavior in terms of going to the Dr and for tests, now we look and see where some treatments will be cheaper and I have turned down procedures at the local Dr to go to an out patient center where the cost was 20% of the price that the local hospital wanted to charge. We paid for an entire delivery and all the first year visits out of pocket via the HSA and still did not meet the $5000 deductible because we looked around and found the options that fit our needs the best. I have been able to fund my HSA fully in just the premium differences. The great thing is I still get the negotiated discount of the medical procedures but I only have to pay for the services I actually use.

The HSA option only works if you choose a HD plan and can afford to put money into it. I am really lucky that I am able to fund it so that if I do ever need use it it is there but for a lot of people getting the subsidity it is not a realistic option to say here is your $300 dollar plan, now put an extra $500 a month into this HSA fund when you have previous medical bills that are due, a car that is broken down, child support is due or any number of financial issues.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[airdvr 197]

gowlerk

Quote

The difference being you can probably afford it. Most of the ACA folks who purchased through the exchanges don't even understand the meaning of the word deductible. Boy are they gonna be pissed when they actually have to use it.

I think you are grossly underestimating the average American.

Are you referring to the same average American who elected Trump?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[gowlerk 1,912]

Quote

Are you referring to the same average American who elected Trump?

I keep hearing that the average American actually voted for someone else. Not that it matters in that system. But many of the ACA exchange purchasers are pretty intelligent self employed people. The ones who likely don't understand deductibles don't need to because they are on medicaid.

It must suck to live in a place where you have to carefully consider your health insurance before thinking of changing jobs. Or becoming self employed. That whole business must be terribly stifling to innovation. And I can not even begin to imagine the strain it must put on small business trying to provide insurance.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

brenthutch

Tom Price just tapped for HHS. Talk about putting the fox in charge of the hen house. Chuck Schumer seen pooping his pants.

Should also note that Tom Price is a member of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS). Sounds pretty fancy doesn't it?

Not everything is always as it seems. AAPS is against vaccines and blames them for autism. Its statement of principles includes that it is evil and immoral for a doctor to participate in Medicare or Medicaid.

It opines that electronic medical records are a form of data control similar to that employed by the East German secret police.

An article on their website speculates Obama may have one the election by hypnotizing voters, especially those people susceptible to neurolinguistic programming. That would be young people. educated people and possibly Jews.

AAPS believes "shaken baby syndrome" is a misdiagnosis for vaccine injury.

AAPS blames immigrants for crime and disease.

AAPS believes abortion causes breast cancer.

AAPS believes that doctors should overrule evidence based medicine since that science confronts with the godlike status of a doctor.

He is going to set some wonderful policy, the best policy.

[rushmc 18]

gowlerk

Quote

Are you referring to the same average American who elected Trump?

I keep hearing that the average American actually voted for someone else. Not that it matters in that system. But many of the ACA exchange purchasers are pretty intelligent self employed people. The ones who likely don't understand deductibles don't need to because they are on medicaid.

It must suck to live in a place where you have to carefully consider your health insurance before thinking of changing jobs. Or becoming self employed. That whole business must be terribly stifling to innovation. And I can not even begin to imagine the strain it must put on small business trying to provide insurance.

And this mess has been caused by our government. It started with wage controls put in place by the great Jimmy Carter.
The more the gov is involved the worse it will get.

And many small businesses are not providing HC insurance because they are being pushed in that direction by Obamacare bs.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 1,912]

Are you still crying about Jimmy Carter? How about FDR? Are you going to start the right wing whine about the New Deal as well?

Your health care debacle is caused by your health care insurance industry. And small minded right-wingers who oppose basic human services that every other rich western nation has.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[airdvr 197]

You are correct. Health insurance is broken here. Many ACA folks with $5,000.00+ deductibles who think they have health insurance, might as well have a $5,000,000.00 deductible because they haven't seen 5 grand in one place in their lives. The only reason they even bought insurance this year is due to the penalty they paid on last year's tax return. In 5 years we'll have a whole new set of folks whose lives are in turmoil because they were forced to buy shitty insurance.

I'm having a cervical neck fusion this month (while my deductible is paid for the year). As part of the recovery I have to wear a neck collar very similar to the one in the picture. I can buy it online for $80. My orthopedic surgeon is billing my insurance $547.00. The insurance company won't pay that much for sure but I'll bet they end up paying a lot more than $80. I'm also willing to bet that I wouldn't be allowed to purchase this device on my own. The surgeon probably wouldn't allow it.

For me this is Obama's legacy. We had a chance to make major strides forwards in affordability. We failed miserably. People rave that so many more are insured. Bullshit. That's not insurance...it's just a reacharound.

I don't see how Donald will be able to fix this mess. I'd like to see us go to a single payer system but I fear the quagmire healthcare becomes when we finally do.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 18]

gowlerk

Are you still crying about Jimmy Carter? How about FDR? Are you going to start the right wing whine about the New Deal as well?

Your health care debacle is caused by your health care insurance industry. And small minded right-wingers who oppose basic human services that every other rich western nation has.

Oohhhh, you are in a pissy insulting mood today!

But no, I am not whining, just pointing out the fact that small minded lefties can not see the real problem even when the facts of the problem are laid out in front of them.

You can have all the government involvement you want in Canada. But the majority here NEVER have supported Obamacare here because the coming disaster (that is now here) was clearly predicted.

Now take a breath, calm down and accept the fact the Trump won

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lawndarter 3]

Quote

It must suck to live in a place where you have to carefully consider your health insurance before thinking of changing jobs. Or becoming self employed. That whole business must be terribly stifling to innovation. And I can not even begin to imagine the strain it must put on small business trying to provide insurance.

This is the thing that I've found most people don't even think about in the healthcare debate, and why for its faults I like Canada's system. My healthcare doesn't depend on being employed by some large benevolent employer, or even on my being employed at all. Sure, employers can seek to attract employees with generous supplemental benefits (like my last private sector employer - whose plan funded thousands of dollars worth of physiotherapy when I broke my ankle), but my basic needs aren't tied to that.

Which through one optic sounds like "people who don't want to work hard just mooch", but actually sounds more like, "hey, you know, if I want to take some risk and start my own business, and maybe even employ people, I don't have to worry about my own healthcare or trying to fund theirs".

Linking something as basic as healthcare to one's employer, in a culture where racing to the bottom on wages, benefits, pensions etc is simply accepted, make no sense to me.

I'm married to an American with one of those glorious "pre-existing conditions", Crohn's disease. She was looking at career opportunities in the US through a mentor, and I was about to start the process of getting a green card, but the more I watch what's unfolding with cabinet appointments there and the tone post election, the less interested I am.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Linking something as basic as healthcare to one's employer, in a culture where racing to the bottom on wages, benefits, pensions etc is simply accepted, make no sense to me.

Again
this came about here because of wage controls put in place by Jimmy Carter. The government CAUSED THIS !

NOW the government claims it has to fix a mess caused by the private sector which is not true. But per normal, the gov causes a problem and then says it has to fix the problem. It is a joke. They broke it to start with and now they want to "fix" something again? No thanks.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

He's clearly referring to the Republican party for the last 8 years.

[gowlerk 1,912]

Quote

I don't see how Donald will be able to fix this mess. I'd like to see us go to a single payer system but I fear the quagmire healthcare becomes when we finally do.

When Medicare (single payer) came to Canada in the 60s it was a huge fight. Many doctors and others went out of their minds with anger. Today it is accepted and recognized that it has problems, but few if any would like to go to your system.

Medical care keeps getting more and more advanced. And at the cutting edge the costs are extreme. In both countries, not everyone can get the best of everything. Decisions about cost that have a huge effect on peoples lives get made every day.

I also can see no way that America can go single payer under your political system. But small steps toward better access for all will occur. The ACA was an improvement, but certainly not the final answer. I believe that in the end the Trump/Pence/Ryan regime will do something that goes at least a small way to making it better. Even though they are conservatives. Why? Because the weaknesses built into the ACA will make it a necessity. And the realities of politics will make it all but impossible to just go back to the 2008 situation. It will be easier for the new team to pass what they want then it was for Obama to get what he wanted past the Congress. The Dems had a majority, but part of it was a chicken shit majority. They wimped out and got creamed in the mid-terms anyway. They deserved it, they blew their chance.

But who knows? Few believed Trump could become POTUS. At least he is not locked into an ideology. He may decide it's important to do the right thing. And he may be strong enough to force it through.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

I believe that in the end the Trump/Pence/Ryan regime will do something that goes at least a small way to making it better. Even though they are conservatives.

The medical association Price belongs to has as its founding principles that it is immoral and evil for a doctor to participate in medicaid or medicare. So, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

[gowlerk 1,912]

If their solution makes insurance less available to people they will pay a cost in two years. Trump is unpredictable, we will just have to wait and see.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[yoink 321]

SkyDekker

Not everything is always as it seems. AAPS is against vaccines and blames them for autism. Its statement of principles includes that it is evil and immoral for a doctor to participate in Medicare or Medicaid.

It opines that electronic medical records are a form of data control similar to that employed by the East German secret police.

An article on their website speculates Obama may have one the election by hypnotizing voters, especially those people susceptible to neurolinguistic programming. That would be young people. educated people and possibly Jews.

AAPS believes "shaken baby syndrome" is a misdiagnosis for vaccine injury.

AAPS blames immigrants for crime and disease.

AAPS believes abortion causes breast cancer.

AAPS believes that doctors should overrule evidence based medicine since that science confronts with the godlike status of a doctor.

He is going to set some wonderful policy, the best policy.

Holy fucking shit. You cannot be serious...

[airdvr 197]

SkyDekker

***Tom Price just tapped for HHS. Talk about putting the fox in charge of the hen house. Chuck Schumer seen pooping his pants.

Should also note that Tom Price is a member of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS). Sounds pretty fancy doesn't it?

Not everything is always as it seems. AAPS is against vaccines and blames them for autism. Its statement of principles includes that it is evil and immoral for a doctor to participate in Medicare or Medicaid.

It opines that electronic medical records are a form of data control similar to that employed by the East German secret police.

An article on their website speculates Obama may have one the election by hypnotizing voters, especially those people susceptible to neurolinguistic programming. That would be young people. educated people and possibly Jews.

AAPS believes "shaken baby syndrome" is a misdiagnosis for vaccine injury.

AAPS blames immigrants for crime and disease.

AAPS believes abortion causes breast cancer.

AAPS believes that doctors should overrule evidence based medicine since that science confronts with the godlike status of a doctor.

He is going to set some wonderful policy, the best policy.

Not sure where you got all of that info. I couldn't find it on their site.
http://aapsonline.org/

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne