Holy Crap - The Irony.. .

[Niki1 1]

winsor

***What does Islam have to do with a hate crime?

Islam is a hate crime.


Just as christian fundamentalism.
Just as jewish fundamentalism.
And islamic fundamentalism.
Come to think of it, ALL "fundamentalism."

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[gowlerk 1,903]

billvon

>.or unless the law has been fulfilled and everything had been accomplished - which Christ Did.

?? Leviticus lists laws that have to be obeyed, and penalties if they are not obeyed. If you drive home sober one night, does that mean you have "fulfilled the law" against drunk driving and no longer have to obey that law?

No Bill, Jesus did not repeal and replace man's laws. Only God's laws. You still must render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,903]

jakee

******Not much wiggle room there - unless you claim that heaven and earth have passed away. (Or unless you want to be called "least in the kingdom of heaven.")

...or unless the law has been fulfilled and everything had been accomplished - which Christ Did. All that's left then is to place your faith in Him - no renouncement needed.

That doesn't jive with any of the other translations provided on the last page. There is quite clearly no 'or' provision in any of them. As written in english the meaning is definitely that the 'all being finished / fulfilled / accomplished' is everything that will happen until the end of time.

I guess they must all be bad translations and you got the good one.


You have to read the New Testament. It's like a Constitutional Amendment. It modifies the meaning of the original law by updating and replacing it. No need to modify the original. You actually still need the original to understand where it all comes from.

It's just like dealing with lawyers. As in "let's kill all the lawyers tonight".

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

******

Quote

What's the point in seeking justification through a Law that has already condemned one to death?

So the unconverted Jews, God's chosen people, are now condemned unless they convert. Correct?

Convert? All they have to do is believe on the Messiah that they've been waiting for - and many already have.

So, the answer to my question, that you are evading, is yes then? God's chosen people are condemned to hell unless they convert?

I can't tell you who's going to hell or not, because I don't know how God is - or will be - working in people's lives. However, IIRC I do believe that Jews in the end will see God for who He is and will mourn for rejecting the prophets and the Messiah, and essentially getting a "second chance" if you will - but I haven't really studied that in depth since in not really applicable to me.

...but to your point, ultimately we're already condemned to death for violating the Law, unless of course you're perfect and never violated it - to which I would say, keep up the good work! (as per the Law)

But this brings up an interesting point that I haven't really thought about until now - let's say that you are perfect, but suddenly you violate the law and your winning streak comes to an end - you would then be condemned just as everyone else, so in that sense I can see how the power of the Law is still in effect even today and till the end.

It would still have it's power to condemn - and that's the only power it ever really had. It never had the power to bring forth righteousness - for that, we seek Christ.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 1,903]

It does not really matter in the end. The laws of God were written by the hand of man. And therefore subject to the flaws that man will inevitably introduce to them. As you say, no man can know another man's soul. Everyone must decide what to believe for themselves. The priests don't really know any more than you do. For as hard as they study, they are only learning what was written by other men.

If there is God, surely She is within you and everywhere. You will find God within, if you are to find Her. (I only use the feminine pronoun to distinguish my God from that of the written word of man. In truth God is neither man nor woman and has no need of gender.) I am not trying to lead you away from your beliefs, they are yours and they work for you. I am only pointing out that they are not be the only valid beliefs.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,621]

Coreeece

***
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

Right, and Scripture repeatedly shows how He has fulfilled the Law and accomplished what he set out to do.

John 19:30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

"Finished" has also been translated as "completed," "consummated," or "accomplished."

If you are seeking justification from the Law then you must abide by the entire Law. If one breaks any part of the Law at anytime, it's as if they've broken entire Law and are thus already condemned - hence the need for Christ.

The whole point of Christianity is to be justified by grace through faith in Christ. If you're seeking to be justified by the Law, then Christ is of no benefit to you.\

What a load of rubbish.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

What a load of rubbish.

Whadda ya mean John? It's in da book ya know. Dontcha read books?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

What a load of rubbish.

Lame. . .

Don't you think it's about time for some new material? I mean, why do you even bother?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 620]

QED

[kallend 1,621]

Here's a good Christian.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,621]

Coreeece

***What a load of rubbish.

Lame. . .

Don't you think it's about time for some new material? I mean, why do you even bother?

Irony score 10/10. You just trot out the same mumbo-jumbo time after time to justify selectively following the "laws" you like and ignoring the ones you don't like.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,254]

gowlerk

*********Not much wiggle room there - unless you claim that heaven and earth have passed away. (Or unless you want to be called "least in the kingdom of heaven.")

...or unless the law has been fulfilled and everything had been accomplished - which Christ Did. All that's left then is to place your faith in Him - no renouncement needed.

That doesn't jive with any of the other translations provided on the last page. There is quite clearly no 'or' provision in any of them. As written in english the meaning is definitely that the 'all being finished / fulfilled / accomplished' is everything that will happen until the end of time.

I guess they must all be bad translations and you got the good one.


You have to read the New Testament. It's like a Constitutional Amendment. It modifies the meaning of the original law by updating and replacing it.

Except for the bit we're talking about, that specifically says there will be no update or replacement. Ever.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

************Not much wiggle room there - unless you claim that heaven and earth have passed away. (Or unless you want to be called "least in the kingdom of heaven.")

...or unless the law has been fulfilled and everything had been accomplished - which Christ Did. All that's left then is to place your faith in Him - no renouncement needed.

That doesn't jive with any of the other translations provided on the last page. There is quite clearly no 'or' provision in any of them. As written in english the meaning is definitely that the 'all being finished / fulfilled / accomplished' is everything that will happen until the end of time.

I guess they must all be bad translations and you got the good one.


You have to read the New Testament. It's like a Constitutional Amendment. It modifies the meaning of the original law by updating and replacing it.

Except for the bit we're talking about, that specifically says there will be no update or replacement. Ever.

It is typical that you an others here drag this thread to one about Christianity

Tell me then, when was the last time a mass murder such as this was committed specifically because of the hate you say comes from the Bible?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

******What a load of rubbish.

Lame. . .

Don't you think it's about time for some new material? I mean, why do you even bother?

Irony score 10/10. You just trot out the same mumbo-jumbo time after time to justify selectively following the "laws" you like and ignoring the ones you don't like.

It's a bit peculiar that you seem to be upset because I don't stone people. If I did however, I'd suppose that you would then preoccupy your mind with how I'm a hypocrite. . .

I will agree that the Law is in full effect, continually condemning people day after day till the end. It could never bring forth righteousness and spiritual life, so for that we put our faith in Christ who preached repentance and forgiveness - to judge not, lest ye be judged.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[DJL 232]

What denomination are you?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

It is typical that you an others here drag this thread to one about Christianity

Me? Dude, there'd been 3 pages of discussion about nothing else by the time I said something.

Quote

Tell me then, when was the last time a mass murder such as this was committed specifically because of the hate you say comes from the Bible?

What do you mean specifically? Like, the person definitely wouldn't have had a problem with gay people, or been a sociopathic murderer, if it hadn't been for religious text? Who knows?

I don't know if you can say they're solely responsible for any particular crimes but a lot of religions are pretty fucking shitty in terms of stoking up homophobic hate and yes, that includes both Islam and various versions of Christianity.

Speaking of which, would you want to be a gay person in Uganda?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreeece 2]

DJL

What denomination are you?

If I had to place a label on it, I suppose I'd call it mere christianity.

I would say that the expository style of preaching has given me more insight into scripture than my apathetic Catholic upbringing - and I haven't looked back since.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[RonD1120 58]

Coreeece

***What denomination are you?

If I had to place a label on it, I suppose I'd call it mere christianity.

I would say that the expository style of preaching has given me more insight into scripture than my apathetic Catholic upbringing - and I haven't looked back since.

I'm with you there. We attend a Church of God right now because of the outstanding praise and worship plus loving fellowship. The preacher is just fair and not a pastor at all.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,384]

>Tell me then, when was the last time a mass murder such as this was committed
>specifically because of the hate you say comes from the Bible?

2011.

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Tell me then, when was the last time a mass murder such as this was committed
>specifically because of the hate you say comes from the Bible?

2011.

I look forward to posting the story

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[muff528 3]

I think he's referring to Anders Breivik. Breivik self-identifies as an Odinist (so his choice must be honored). But, he may be lying so Thor will let him use the toilet of the gods instead of having to use only the Christian facilities. Thor is kind of an asshole (not the good kind, either.)

[normiss 620]

christians for the win

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

christians for the win

Given equal time - Allah will win that battle.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rifleman 61]

turtlespeed

***christians for the win

Given equal time - Allah will win that battle.

Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. It doesn't matter whether the person saying it is Muslim or Christian. If they're Arabic and praying in their own language (and why wouldn't they?) they'll use the word Allah to refer to God, irrespective of their religion.

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[billvon 2,384]

Quote

Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. It doesn't matter whether the person saying it is Muslim or Christian. If they're Arabic and praying in their own language (and why wouldn't they?) they'll use the word Allah to refer to God, irrespective of their religion.

A bit of wisdom from Speaker's Corner tonight. Sometimes you do see it here.