Nah, this would never happen.......it has.

[skycop 0]

Quote

When I think about the Portland, Oregon ( PDX ) police dep't. vs the Oregon State Police dep't., the state guys have never had anywhere near the number of bad apples that the PDX dep't. has had.

The number and type of police contacts are vastly different as well. State Police normally operate in sparsely populated unincorporated areas, with traffic contacts being the most common. City police have much larger call volumes, with a much greater variety of calls for service, this is in addition to self initiated activity.
In many cities, traffic enforcement is secondary, unless assigned to a traffic unit or directed patrol.
I worked in the inner city the vast majority of my career, my favorite stat is I've never written a speeding ticket, NEVER. I've never been certified to run radar.
The more calls you run, the higher chance an officer will be involved in a controversial incident, just because something causes controversy, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Quote

IMO the police union runs the police dep't. in PDX, not the mayor.

The average size of an American city police department is around 10 officers, in many cases they are at-will employees and the mayor/city council hires and fires.
Most are not unionized and do not work under collective bargaining.

In large cities the union can be powerful, but they are in the minority as far as averages go. I will agree in certain cases they retain questionable officers, but I will also say they protect many more good officers from the prevailing political winds.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kallend 1,799]

Days after Charles Kinsey was shot by North Miami police as the behavioral health care worker tried to help a patient, we now know more about the officer who fired the shot — and according to the head of the local police union, the officer was trying to shoot Kinsey's patient, a man with autism, not Kinsey.

"Fearing for Mr. Kinsey's life, the officer discharged his firearm, trying to save Mr. Kinsey's life," says John Rivera, president of the Dade County Police Benevolent Association. "And he missed, and accidentally struck Mr. Kinsey."

So here we have a trained police officer (aka "good guy with gun") who misses his target and hits the wrong person. Yet Wayne LaPierre would have us believe that any old yahoo with a gun who happens to be a good guy is going to be beneficial in a shooting incident.

Utter BS.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skycop 0]

Quote

How do you justify this one?

I don't

Quote

So here we have a trained police officer (aka "good guy with gun") who misses his target and hits the wrong person. Yet Wayne LaPierre would have us believe that any old yahoo with a gun who happens to be a good guy is going to be beneficial in a shooting incident.

Utter BS.

And this has to do with my reply to your assumption, how?

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kallend 1,799]

skycop

Quote

How do you justify this one?

I don't

***So here we have a trained police officer (aka "good guy with gun") who misses his target and hits the wrong person. Yet Wayne LaPierre would have us believe that any old yahoo with a gun who happens to be a good guy is going to be beneficial in a shooting incident.

Utter BS.

And this has to do with my reply to your assumption, how?

It's not all about you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skycop 0]

Silly me,
It was a reply with my name on it.

Sorry.............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kallend 1,799]

skycop

Silly me,
It was a reply with my name on it.

Sorry.............

Because you are the OP of the thread.

Nothing you wrote was quoted, which is what I would do if I were responding directly to something you wrote.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skypuppy 1]

kallend

***Silly me,
It was a reply with my name on it.

Sorry.............

Because you are the OP of the thread.

Nothing you wrote was quoted, which is what I would do if I were responding directly to something you wrote.

Just because this cop couldn't shoot straight doesn't mean another good guy with a gun couldn't... Many Americans are vets, many are hunters...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[kallend 1,799]

skypuppy

******Silly me,
It was a reply with my name on it.

Sorry.............

Because you are the OP of the thread.

Nothing you wrote was quoted, which is what I would do if I were responding directly to something you wrote.

Just because this cop couldn't shoot straight doesn't mean another good guy with a gun couldn't... Many Americans are vets, many are hunters...

Lame defense of the indefensible.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GeorgiaDon 350]

Quote

Just because this cop couldn't shoot straight doesn't mean another good guy with a gun couldn't... Many Americans are vets, many are hunters...

Let's say the cop hit his target, and killed an autistic patient for holding a toy truck. And he did so while the therapist was trying to tell the cops the guy was a patient and was only holding a toy truck? How would that be any better?

I think this incident highlights a big part of the problem: cops showing up and "taking action" without bothering to find out anything about the actual situation. Even if you try to tell them what is really going on, you can't or they don't listen (as in this case). If cops are going to make snap decisions, of course that is a perfect situation for their unconscious biases to influence their decision making.

A while ago I read an article about how the deaf are disproportionately likely to have a violent encounter with the police, as are the mentally challenged (such as the autistic fellow in Miami). The problem was explained to be that the police are trained to expect immediate compliance with their orders, and to treat any hesitation as resistance and a threat. Of course that puts people who can't hear, and people who can't understand, in danger. That also applies to people who don't understand English well, such as in the incident in Alabama a while ago where a visitor from India was body slammed to the ground, breaking his neck and paralyzing him, because he could not understand and comply with the cops.

Another factor seems to be people who misinterpret a situation (again often according to their biases), call 911, and then the cops don't take the time to determine if the caller described the situation accurately. I can think of many instances that resulted in death or significant injury to an innocent person. The police should know that such 911 calls are extremely subjective and are likely to completely misinterpret an innocent situation.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[jakee 1,320]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

Just because this cop couldn't shoot straight doesn't mean another good guy with a gun couldn't... Many Americans are vets, many are hunters...

Let's say the cop hit his target, and killed an autistic patient for holding a toy truck. And he did so while the therapist was trying to tell the cops the guy was a patient and was only holding a toy truck? How would that be any better?

Depends who he handcuffed after, I guess.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skycop 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/violent-crime-report-us-cities-homicides-rapes/index.html

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,271]

skycop

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/violent-crime-report-us-cities-homicides-rapes/index.html

Thank god there are lots of guns.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

***http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/violent-crime-report-us-cities-homicides-rapes/index.html

Thank god there are lots of guns.

this is what happens when the current admin policies put people out of work.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,799]

rushmc

******http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/violent-crime-report-us-cities-homicides-rapes/index.html

Thank god there are lots of guns.

this is what happens when the current admin policies put people out of work.

More people working now than at the end of the GWB administration.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,523]

kallend

More people working now than at the end of the GWB administration.

Evidence: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Hooknswoop 19]

http://www.epi.org/publication/missing-workers/

A better source.

Derek V

[kallend 1,799]

Actual numbers, not guesses:

money.cnn.com/2015/11/06/news/economy/obama-jobs/

Since President Obama took office, the economy has added 8.7 million jobs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 718]

You meant to say biased.

[JerryBaumchen 1,241]

Hi skycop,

Quote

be careful what you wish for.......

I wish that we did not have guys in blue like this dipstick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgvaQ_Xo2fc

Getting burned is no fun,

Jerry Baumchen

[skycop 0]

Perhaps uninformed people shouldn't jump to conclusions, before gathering all information.

http://www.azdps.gov/Media/News/View/?p=754

But thanks for jumping on the internet expert bandwagon.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[nolhtairt 0]

kallend

Actual numbers, not guesses:

money.cnn.com/2015/11/06/news/economy/obama-jobs/

Since President Obama took office, the economy has added 8.7 million jobs.

And CNN isn't biased? Riiiiiiiiight.

[kallend 1,799]

nolhtairt

***
Actual numbers, not guesses:

money.cnn.com/2015/11/06/news/economy/obama-jobs/

Since President Obama took office, the economy has added 8.7 million jobs.

And CNN isn't biased? Riiiiiiiiight.

Tell us an unbiased (in your opinion) source and give us the number it states.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,241]

Hi skycop,

Quote

before gathering all information

If you accept that one article is 'all' of the information, then we simply cannot discuss this.

I accept that you and I will probably never agree on what should be done/changed, if anything.

I accept that our culture is changing. The days of old when police brutality was kept in the dark are behind us. The world today is that one should somewhat expect to be videod on just about anything that they do.

Did this particular driver deserve to get beaten on hot asphalt? Time & the courts will determine that.

It is simply no longer acceptable for those ~1% thugs that wear the blue uniform to beat up people without cause; 'without cause' being subjective. Those days are gone forever.

I am a licensed engineer, been one since 1978. Each year I get a 'flyer/pamphlet' from the licensing board. In it, it has details on those engineers who have lost their license or had it suspended. It just astounds me how some of them could do such stupid things. However, we have a system in place to deal with them.

I contend that we do not have an adequate system, short of a civil action, to deal with those ~1% thugs who wear the blue uniform.

I like my local police dept. I accept that they probably do have a couple of thugs who should never be allowed to do police work. I do not accept the premise of your OP.

Jerry Baumchen

[skycop 0]

Quote

If you accept that one article is 'all' of the information, then we simply cannot discuss this

It's "all" the relevant information you failed to gather.

Quote

Did this particular driver deserve to get beaten on hot asphalt? Time & the courts will determine that.

He wasn't "beaten" on the hot asphalt, he actively resisted arrest, and was subdued and taken into custody with the help of two civilian witnesses. It isn't pretty when someone under the influence decides to resist and fight.

If you drive 30MPH over the posted speed limit, during the day, with lots of traffic, allegedly under the influence of something other than alcohol, then fight with the officer who attempts to take you into custody. A wrestling match on hot asphalt could ensue, remember the officer was on the hot asphalt also, I would bet my next paycheck he didn't want to be there fighting.

Quote

It is simply no longer acceptable for those ~1% thugs that wear the blue uniform to beat up people without cause

I provided the cause, you may not like it, but that's not relevant to the cause or probable cause.

Quote

I am a licensed engineer, been one since 1978.

It's interesting, I'm not an engineer, and do not feel remotely qualified to comment on things related to that field. However, you felt the need to comment on something you knew nothing about, except after watching a youtube video. No factual info, no context, just a knee-jerk reaction insulting an officer simply doing his job. I'd expect more from a licensed engineer with so much experience.

Quote

I contend that we do not have an adequate system, short of a civil action, to deal with those ~1% thugs who wear the blue uniform

You contend there isn't a system, there is, officers have to be certified, and those certifications can be and are revoked for misconduct. Is there room for improvement, sure, there always is room for improvement.

Quote

I accept that they probably do have a couple of thugs who should never be allowed to do police work.

I'm assuming you don't use the same logic or formula for engineering things, the internet says so, so it's probably right.

I've said numerous times, just because it looks bad on youtube, doesn't make it unjustified or wrong.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[billvon 2,684]

Quote

It's interesting, I'm not an engineer, and do not feel remotely qualified to comment on things related to that field.

I have a feeling, though, that if cranes started regularly collapsing in your city and killing people, you would begin to have opinions on the skills of the engineers who designed them and set them up - and perhaps even start to think that your city should be more careful in who they let set up cranes. Even though you are not an engineer.