Mississippi needs armed guards in churches

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

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But collectively, if we were all taken from the world or chose to drink kool-aid in hopes of experiencing the finer things of eternal life, there wouldn't be anyone here to evangelize future believers as stated in Jn 17:20 that I posted.

So?

So what? Jn 17 - it's pretty clear.

jakee

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...but to your point, there's probably more verses about sacrificing your life for another person, rather than trying to save your own arse or way of life.

What's so great about saving someone's life? It's not like you're doing them a favour, is it?

I suppose it would depend on the individual that you're attempting to save.

jakee

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Also, just because something isn't biblical, doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong.

Oh, very true. Kinda doubt you meant it in the way I'm reading it though...

Tho all things may be premissable, not all things are beneficial. What spiritual benefit could possibly come by way of reckless driving?

1 Corinthians 10:23
"I have the right to do anything," you say--but not everything is beneficial. "I have the right to do anything"--but not everything is constructive.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

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So what? Jn 17 - it's pretty clear.

It's not clear that it's either important or makes any difference that future people be evangelised. Despite all the people in the world who didn't believe in Jesus when he was alive Judas was the only one who went to 'the evil world'. So you've gotta be pretty bad for it to matter.

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I suppose it would depend on the individual that you're attempting to save.

No, it wouldn't. Why would it?

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Tho all things may be premissable, not all things are beneficial. What spiritual benefit could possibly come by way of reckless driving?

What spiritual benefi comes from watching TV? What spiritual benefit comes from eating fast food? What spiritual benefit comes from going to a ball game? Voting? Skydiving?

You said that you don't drive recklessly because it's not biblical to put yourslef in danger. You didn't say that you didn't do it and oh by the way it just happens to not be biblical either. So don't move the goalposts.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

It's not clear that it's either important or makes any difference that future people be evangelised

You didn't ask why it's important, you asked why it's biblical to maintain this fleeting existence - so I gave you scripture showing how the spiritual well being of future believers will depend on our word about Christ.

To me, that IS important - and I would say it's important to Christ given that it was like his last prayer with his followers before he was arrested and killed.

jakee

You said that you don't drive recklessly because it's not biblical to put yourslef in danger.

There's a common misconception that "Jesus taking the wheel" or "letting go and letting God" is a biblical concept. I felt the need to note that it wasn't. My apologies for not effectively communicating that point.

I don't see how it really matters tho - your question still stands regardless - why do we cling to this fleeting existence?

I tried answering that question as best I could in post #92 - If I were to add something, I'd say that if it wasn't important we wouldn't have been born with the instinct to survive and could've forgone this period of existence altogether - but that's just not the way it is.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

Coreeece

***It's not clear that it's either important or makes any difference that future people be evangelised

You didn't ask why it's important, you asked why it's biblical to maintain this fleeting existence

Yeah, but that passage doesn't show that it is important to maintain this fleeting existence. Given that no-one's spiritual wellbeing suffered apart from Judas' while Jesus was around (and he was set up by Jesus to be a stooge anyway) despite whether they listened to him or not then why should anyone's spiritual wellbeing suffer after Jesus has gone no matter who's around?

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If I were to add something, I'd say that if it wasn't important we wouldn't have been born with the instinct to survive

But we get born with loads of instincts that according to the bible aren't meant to be followed. Most men get born with the instinct to try and have sex with anything and everything vaguely woman shaped, but apparently we're only supposed to have one. Some men get born with the instinct to try and have sex with everything man shaped, but the book says that's definitely a no-go. The instinct we have as kids to just take the stuff we want (and hurt the people who try and stop us taking it) has to be painstakingly drummed out of us by society, and the bible agrees with society on that one. A lot of your colleagues say that these instincts are actually implanted as a result of a snake and an apple being sneaky together, and are therefore definitely bad things to be ignored. So yeah, biblically speaking, appealing to instinct is a really bad argument.

And then going back to the sword thing - presumably if you defend yourself with a sword against someone else who has a sword then someone might die - so it's ok for people to die - so why not you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

Given that no-one's spiritual wellbeing suffered apart from Judas' while Jesus was around (and he was set up by Jesus to be a stooge anyway) despite whether they listened to him or not then why should anyone's spiritual wellbeing suffer after Jesus has gone no matter who's around?

In Jn 17:8 it speaks about how He gave them the word - they accepted it as truth, and believed. Likewise, people in the future believed through the word given by other believers - How do you have spiritual life if you don't believe?

jakee

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If I were to add something, I'd say that if it wasn't important we wouldn't have been born with the instinct to survive

But we get born with loads of instincts that according to the bible aren't meant to be followed. Most men get born with the instinct to try and have sex with anything and everything vaguely woman shaped, but apparently we're only supposed to have one. Some men get born with the instinct to try and have sex with everything man shaped, but the book says that's definitely a no-go. The instinct we have as kids to just take the stuff we want (and hurt the people who try and stop us taking it) has to be painstakingly drummed out of us by society, and the bible agrees with society on that one. A lot of your colleagues say that these instincts are actually implanted as a result of a snake and an apple being sneaky together, and are therefore definitely bad things to be ignored. So yeah, biblically speaking, appealing to instinct is a really bad argument.

Yeah, duh - that's a good point. According to scripture, we die because of sin - so then the idea of survival would be a derivative of our fallen nature.

I could certainly spend more time in study - but at the moment, I doubt I could offer much more than the little that I've already posted.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

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In Jn 17:8 it speaks about how He gave them the word - they accepted it as truth, and believed. Likewise, people in the future believed through the word given by other believers - How do you have spiritual life if you don't believe?

Does god know that there are things called books and the internet now? All this stuff is written down. Evangelical ink, if you like. Or not, that was a terrible pun. Sorry.

But also you're going to have spiritual life anyway, right? After you don't have organic life anymore it can only be spiritual life left - then you'd be like "Oh right, I get it now" and things'll be good forever.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 58]

The only thing you can take with you when you die is your salvation. If you claim it while alive.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,623]

Coreeece

Yeah, duh - that's a good point. According to scripture, we die because of sin - so then the idea of survival would be a derivative of our fallen nature.

Why do dogs die? And penguins? Are they sinful too?

Meanwhile HeLa cancer cells don't die. I suppose they are without sin.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

***

Yeah, duh - that's a good point. According to scripture, we die because of sin - so then the idea of survival would be a derivative of our fallen nature.

Why do dogs die? And penguins? Are they sinful too?

The only thing scripture says about it is that creation was unwillingly subjected to futility - and that even the ground is cursed because of our sin. (Romans 8:19 -22 , Gen 3:17)

Given the law of entropy, I suppose we could even say that the entire universe is cursed.

kallend

Meanwhile HeLa cancer cells don't die. I suppose they are without sin.

Perhaps it's merely a byproduct of sin.

I always found it interesting how people call things immortal when they're not really immortal - like vampires. Vampires are considered immortal, yet they can be killed by either a stake through the heart, or cutting off their head and setting it on fire - likewise, HeLa cells don't die because the conditions suitable for "immortality" are maintained by scientists.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

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creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

RonD1120

The only thing you can take with you when you die is your salvation. If you claim it while alive.

Which is so dumb. Why would we need to guess whether the coin is heads or tails - wouldn't we just be shown the coin?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 58]

In a manner of speaking, you have been shown the coin. Both Coreeece and I have on several occasions here in the SC.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,254]

RonD1120

In a manner of speaking, you have been shown the coin. Both Coreeece and I have on several occasions here in the SC.

I have a coin next to my laptop right now. Now that I've told you it's there, does that mean you've seen it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

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creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

What do you think it means given Kallend's question and it's relation to the selected verses that I've posted?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

Coreeece

***

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creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

What do you think it means given Kallend's question and it's relation to the selected verses that I've posted?

Absolutely no idea.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

***

***

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creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

What do you think it means given Kallend's question and it's relation to the selected verses that I've posted?

Absolutely no idea.

Really?

That's surprising.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,623]

Coreeece

***

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creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

What do you think it means given Kallend's question and it's relation to the selected verses that I've posted?

The posted verses mean absolutely nothing.

"creation was unwillingly subjected to futility" - WTF does that mean in the context of an omniscient, omnipotent creator?

Typical religious mumbo-jumbo in response to obvious contradictions.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

******

***

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creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

What do you think it means given Kallend's question and it's relation to the selected verses that I've posted?

Absolutely no idea.

Really?

That's surprising.

Well to be fair, it wasn't abundantly clear to me at first either.

In those instances I'll go back to the original language and look up the verse in an interlinear greek bible to see if it offers any clarification.

I'll also look up the verse using several different translations to see if that helps:

Romans 8:20

New Living Translation
"Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope,"

King James Bible
"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"

New International Version
"For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope"

I'll then take my thoughts and compare them to several commentaries like the one below to see if we're all on the same page.

http://versebyversecommentary.com/romans/romans-820/

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

The posted verses mean absolutely nothing.

Well we were talking about the bible, so I beg to differ.

kallend

"creation was unwillingly subjected to futility" - WTF does that mean in the context of an omniscient, omnipotent creator?

You didn't ask about an omniscient, omnipotent creator - you asked why penguins die. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[kallend 1,623]

Coreeece

***
The posted verses mean absolutely nothing.

Well we were talking about the bible, so I beg to differ.

kallend

"creation was unwillingly subjected to futility" - WTF does that mean in the context of an omniscient, omnipotent creator?

You didn't ask about an omniscient, omnipotent creator - you asked why penguins die. . .

Are you being deliberately OBTUSE?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,254]

turtlespeed

******

***

Quote

creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

What do you think it means given Kallend's question and it's relation to the selected verses that I've posted?

Absolutely no idea.

Really?

That's surprising.

Why? Do you know what it means?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

*********

***

Quote

creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

What do you think it means given Kallend's question and it's relation to the selected verses that I've posted?

Absolutely no idea.

Really?

That's surprising.

Why? Do you know what it means?

Yes.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,254]

turtlespeed

************

***

Quote

creation was unwillingly subjected to futility

What does that mean?

What do you think it means given Kallend's question and it's relation to the selected verses that I've posted?

Absolutely no idea.

Really?

That's surprising.

Why? Do you know what it means?

Yes.

What does it mean?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 58]

If you truly seek, you will find.

Five pence, heads up.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,254]

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If you truly seek, you will find.

I see no reason whatsoever to seek, and I see no reason why anything would be hidden in the first place. That's the stupidity of the system you think is in place.

RonD1120

Five pence, heads up.

So you haven't seen it. In a manner of speaking or any manner.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?