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wolfriverjoe

North Carolina Anti-anti-discrimination law

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11 votes it appears.


Also the State AG from NPR report:

After the legislation was passed, Attorney General Roy Cooper refused to defend it from any challenges, saying, "House Bill 2 is unconstitutional. Therefore our office will not represent the defendants in this lawsuit nor future lawsuits."

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After the legislation was passed, Attorney General Roy Cooper refused to defend it from any challenges, saying, "House Bill 2 is unconstitutional. Therefore our office will not represent the defendants in this lawsuit nor future lawsuits."



Is he allowed to do that? I mean, I agree with him and all, but he is the State's attorney and even guilty people need a defense...
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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I heard a lady AG from another state on NPR this week who made it clear how unconstitutional she felt a similar law was in her state, but also made it clear that until overturned, it was her job to defend the laws of the state. She was very apologetic, but also very firm.
I was quite impressed with her conviction to her responsibility with the laws of her state. I also agreed with her perspective.

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normiss

I heard a lady AG from another state on NPR this week who made it clear how unconstitutional she felt a similar law was in her state, but also made it clear that until overturned, it was her job to defend the laws of the state. She was very apologetic, but also very firm.
I was quite impressed with her conviction to her responsibility with the laws of her state. I also agreed with her perspective.



So upholding the constitution and the inherent right to justice and equality is trumped by the opinion of a small group religious ultraconservatives.

"The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2) establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the supreme law of the land.[1] It provides that state courts are bound by the supreme law; in case of conflict between federal and state law, the federal law must be applied. Even state constitutions are subordinate to federal law.[2]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause

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normiss

I heard a lady AG from another state on NPR this week who made it clear how unconstitutional she felt a similar law was in her state, but also made it clear that until overturned, it was her job to defend the laws of the state. She was very apologetic, but also very firm.
I was quite impressed with her conviction to her responsibility with the laws of her state. I also agreed with her perspective.



She should be nominated for the SC.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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JohnnyMarko

God, I love these kind of threads. You guys are hilarious.



I'm just thankful I'm not a self-proclaimed "conservative".
Obsessing over what bathroom someone uses must be exhausting!:o
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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One of the results of this law:

===========
Results of SurveyUSA Election Poll #22836
Geography: North Carolina
Sponsor:
Data Collected: 04/08/2016 - 04/11/2016

HB2 may be also taking a toll on incumbent Republican Governor Pat McCrory, who signed HB2 into law 3 weeks ago, and who now finds himself trailing Democratic challenger Roy Cooper, the state's attorney general, 43% to 47% among likely 11/08/16 voters.
============

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Phil1111

***I heard a lady AG from another state on NPR this week who made it clear how unconstitutional she felt a similar law was in her state, but also made it clear that until overturned, it was her job to defend the laws of the state. She was very apologetic, but also very firm.
I was quite impressed with her conviction to her responsibility with the laws of her state. I also agreed with her perspective.



So upholding the constitution and the inherent right to justice and equality is trumped by the opinion of a small group religious ultraconservatives.

No, it's more a question of whose job it is to make that determination. He represents and is employed by the state, not the USA. If the law is to be challenged shouldn't it be a Fed attorney that challenges it and a Fed court that decides? As I see it this guy can tell the state his opinion, but if they disagree, take another course of action and get sued then it's his job to defend them. Otherwise is there a difference between him and the batshit gay marriage clerk lady?

Oh wait, I see from Bill's post that he's on he campaign trail. 'Splains it:|
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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jakee

******I heard a lady AG from another state on NPR this week who made it clear how unconstitutional she felt a similar law was in her state, but also made it clear that until overturned, it was her job to defend the laws of the state. ...



So upholding the constitution and the inherent right to justice and equality is trumped by the opinion of a small group religious ultraconservatives.

No, it's more a question of whose job it is to make that determination. He represents and is employed by the state, not the USA. If the law is to be challenged shouldn't it be a Fed attorney that challenges it and a Fed court that decides? As I see it this guy can tell the state his opinion, but if they disagree, take another course of action and get sued then it's his job to defend them. Otherwise is there a difference between him and the batshit gay marriage clerk lady?

Oh wait, I see from Bill's post that he's on he campaign trail. 'Splains it:|
Normiss wasn't quoting the NC AG, but a different one in a state with a similar new law. (bolding mine)

In reply to Phil: that other AG had an opinion about it being unconstitutional. However, she had to wait until federal courts overturned it (which hopefully it will be, so the constitution can be upheld). Due process. ETA: acting on her own, that other AG would be in the same camp as the marriage clerk lady!
See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

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TriGirl

*********I heard a lady AG from another state on NPR this week who made it clear how unconstitutional she felt a similar law was in her state, but also made it clear that until overturned, it was her job to defend the laws of the state. ...



So upholding the constitution and the inherent right to justice and equality is trumped by the opinion of a small group religious ultraconservatives.

No, it's more a question of whose job it is to make that determination. He represents and is employed by the state, not the USA. If the law is to be challenged shouldn't it be a Fed attorney that challenges it and a Fed court that decides? As I see it this guy can tell the state his opinion, but if they disagree, take another course of action and get sued then it's his job to defend them. Otherwise is there a difference between him and the batshit gay marriage clerk lady?

Oh wait, I see from Bill's post that he's on he campaign trail. 'Splains it:|
Normiss wasn't quoting the NC AG, but a different one in a state with a similar new law. (bolding mine)

In reply to Phil: that other AG had an opinion about it being unconstitutional. However, she had to wait until federal courts overturned it (which hopefully it will be, so the constitution can be upheld). Due process. ETA: acting on her own, that other AG would be in the same camp as the marriage clerk lady!

Ah, yeah I can see how my reply was confusing.

I was taking Phil's response and referring back to Normiss' post about NC AG Roy Cooper - who is on the campaign trail against the governor who championed the bill, and who said he would not defend the state against lawsuits related to the bill. Hence, crazy lady comparison.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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billvon

One of the results of this law:

===========
Results of SurveyUSA Election Poll #22836
Geography: North Carolina
Sponsor:
Data Collected: 04/08/2016 - 04/11/2016

HB2 may be also taking a toll on incumbent Republican Governor Pat McCrory, who signed HB2 into law 3 weeks ago, and who now finds himself trailing Democratic challenger Roy Cooper, the state's attorney general, 43% to 47% among likely 11/08/16 voters.
============



Good - I hope that people do vote for the change they want, not necessarily the change they need deserve, but the change they need.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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jakee

******I heard a lady AG from another state on NPR this week who made it clear how unconstitutional she felt a similar law was in her state, but also made it clear that until overturned, it was her job to defend the laws of the state. She was very apologetic, but also very firm.
I was quite impressed with her conviction to her responsibility with the laws of her state. I also agreed with her perspective.



So upholding the constitution and the inherent right to justice and equality is trumped by the opinion of a small group religious ultraconservatives.

No, it's more a question of whose job it is to make that determination. He represents and is employed by the state, not the USA. If the law is to be challenged shouldn't it be a Fed attorney that challenges it and a Fed court that decides? As I see it this guy can tell the state his opinion, but if they disagree, take another course of action and get sued then it's his job to defend them. Otherwise is there a difference between him and the batshit gay marriage clerk lady?

Oh wait, I see from Bill's post that he's on he campaign trail. 'Splains it:|

That's an interesting question.

Does a state AG have a duty to defend a law he (or she) thinks is unconstitutional?

Seeing that the AG is the top attorney for the state, it would seem so.
But as an elected official, they took an oath to "support and defend the constitution", so defending an law that is pretty obviously unconstitutional would go against that.

A quick search found THIS. It addresses the refusal by Holder to defend DOMA, and by state's attorneys to refuse to defend state laws banning same sex marriage (Prop 8 in CA).

So there is some precedent for such a refusal, although I fully agree that campaign politics and publicity probably play a part in the NC situation.

Edit to add:

I see a pretty significant difference between the NC AG and Kim Davis (the batshit crazy county clerk). The AG is a lawyer, and is refusing to defend a law he thinks is unconstitutional. Being a lawyer, he probably has a pretty good handle on what is constitutional and what is not (and this one probably isn't, 14th amendment applies). Worst case, he is failing to fully represent his client as an attorney.

Davis was refusing to issue marriage licenses, despite being told to by several levels of court, including (indirectly) the US Supreme Court. And she was doing so because of her "deeply held religious beliefs" that were so deeply held that she felt ok being in violation of a bunch of the commandments.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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turtlespeed

***One of the results of this law:

===========
Results of SurveyUSA Election Poll #22836
Geography: North Carolina
Sponsor:
Data Collected: 04/08/2016 - 04/11/2016

HB2 may be also taking a toll on incumbent Republican Governor Pat McCrory, who signed HB2 into law 3 weeks ago, and who now finds himself trailing Democratic challenger Roy Cooper, the state's attorney general, 43% to 47% among likely 11/08/16 voters.
============



Good - I hope that people do vote for the change they want, not necessarily the change they need deserve, but the change they need.


Umm, yeah, that, I think, maybe.

I would hope they vote in a new governor that is less hateful of the citizens there.

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normiss

******One of the results of this law:

===========
Results of SurveyUSA Election Poll #22836
Geography: North Carolina
Sponsor:
Data Collected: 04/08/2016 - 04/11/2016

HB2 may be also taking a toll on incumbent Republican Governor Pat McCrory, who signed HB2 into law 3 weeks ago, and who now finds himself trailing Democratic challenger Roy Cooper, the state's attorney general, 43% to 47% among likely 11/08/16 voters.
============



Good - I hope that people do vote for the change they want, not necessarily the change they need deserve, but the change they need.


Umm, yeah, that, I think, maybe.

I would hope they vote in a new governor that is less hateful of the citizens there.

It was a paraphrase from Batman - I thought it would have been better received.[:/]

I hope all the hate goes away. The hate FROM Democrats and conservatives and the hate toward them both as well.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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>It was a paraphrase from Batman

What was the original quote?

And what was your quote? Was it:

"Good - I hope that people do vote for the change they want, not necessarily the change they need to deserve, but the change they need."

Or

"Good - I hope that people do vote for the change they want, not necessarily the change they deserve, but the change they need."

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billvon

>It was a paraphrase from Batman

What was the original quote?

And what was your quote? Was it:

"Good - I hope that people do vote for the change they want, not necessarily the change they need to deserve, but the change they need."

Or

"Good - I hope that people do vote for the change they want, not necessarily the change they deserve, but the change they need."



It was Gordon,
He said something like "He is the hero we deserve, but not the one we need right now.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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Exactly!!!! I never worry about who I am in the bathroom with, I just worry about getting out before the finger pointing and blame the smell on game starts!!!!!!!!!!!!
I must admit, I wasted a lot of time today reading this thread. Wasted......................I'm going to take the rest of the day off to reflect now.

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muff528

***

Quote

Providing cover for sexual predators who will use it to their advantage.



I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where this law will prevent a sexual predator from preying on anyone. If a man is intending on going into a bathroom to rape a woman, do you think he's going to stop because of this law? Can you give me an honest example of how this law is going to prevent any crime?



Again, IMO it is more likely that a Chester the Molester, operating under cover of a law allowing him to walk into any bathroom without raising suspicion, can target victims than a lack of "protections" will victimize a transsexual using the men's room.

It's more likely still that Chester the Molester is a Republican politician than a transgender person.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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"WTF? For 8 years the man who was just one faulty pacemaker and a pretzel away from the presidency...was a child molester???"

-- Trevor Noah talking about Dennis Hastert on last nights "The Daily Show".

:D:D:D
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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kallend

******

Quote

Providing cover for sexual predators who will use it to their advantage.



I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where this law will prevent a sexual predator from preying on anyone. If a man is intending on going into a bathroom to rape a woman, do you think he's going to stop because of this law? Can you give me an honest example of how this law is going to prevent any crime?



Again, IMO it is more likely that a Chester the Molester, operating under cover of a law allowing him to walk into any bathroom without raising suspicion, can target victims than a lack of "protections" will victimize a transsexual using the men's room.

It's more likely still that Chester the Molester is a Republican politician than a transgender person.

Pretty sure I never suggested that Chester would be a transsexual person or that a transsexual person would be a Chester. That wasn't my point at all, ...only that a transsexual person is less likely to be a victim of a sexual assault in a men's room than a predator, using "anti-anti-discrimination" laws as cover, would be able to target his victims in a ladies room. (IMO, of course).

Maybe you could start another thread about your obsession with Republican preverts.

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