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wolfriverjoe

North Carolina Anti-anti-discrimination law

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Here's an interesting take on this issue for people who think bathrooms should be used by birth certificate sex...

This is a guy named Shawn Stinson. He is a professional bodybuilder who was born a woman & has transitioned to man. However, since his birth certificate says he was born a woman that's the bathroom he'll be required to use.

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Stalls,
-real stalls
-lockable, with walls and doors that go all the way down and all the way up

common washup area, etc

is not a problem


Though if Jerry is using this to "chat up" the ladies, then that's more of a real harassment issue to address. I know it was more of a tongue in cheek joke, but this is really the type of thing that really needs to be addressed as it's the root of the issue.


To be consistent with my politics - seems fine to have this (private stalls, common washup areas, etc) in public buildings - more efficient, better use of the dollars - I don't really care if it makes any social statement one way or the other.

Private places - do what you want. your customers will let you know if you are a jerk or not. But - it seems more efficient and accommodating in the long run, a private business would be silly to not consider it.

It would be a dumb law to restrict private businesses from structuring their bathrooms any damn way they want.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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No, the new law would allow Chester the Molester to walk into a ladies room. Under the new law, transgendered men (start out as women) would need to use the ladies room. You'll have situations where a person who looks like a man will be required to use the ladies room. Women will have to get used to people who appear to be men going into their bathrooms. Without this law, a person who appears to be a man would be expected to use the men's room.

Think it through a little more, and you'll see that this law will make it more uncomfortable in the restroom, not less.

- Dan G

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okalb

***Here's an interesting take on this issue for people who think bathrooms should be used by birth certificate sex...



A similar one here:

http://usuncut.com/resistance/north-carolina-anti-lgbt-bathroom-law/

That's the beauty of my proposed solution! If your old lady and this guy want to share a stall, they can! ...in complete privacy!

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Hi rehmwa,

Quote

Though if Jerry is using this to "chat up" the ladies, then that's more of a real harassment issue to address. I know it was more of a tongue in cheek joke . . .



It was definitely tongue in cheek. However, on the serious side, who are you to tell me when I can or cannot chat up a woman? After all, it is only between her and I.

Jerry Baumchen

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Hi okalb,

Quote

bathroom-law



Here is the part I like, from your link:

"The bill is already proving to be the most massively unpopular thing McCrory has ever passed. The Republican Governor has started backpedaling, trying to brand the bill as “bipartisan” even though not a single state Democrat voted for it. In fact, they refused to even participate in the vote and walked out of the Senate chamber in a display of public protest against the law."

Do these people even think before they pass these dumb laws? Don't bother, I know the answer.

Jerry Baumchen

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billvon

> Of course, we won't really know until data on a few bathroom assaults are collected and analyzed.

I guess we can look forward to such data now being available as a result of this law.



I can see the issue here . . .
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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DanG

That cartoon makes no sense.

And it is poorly drawn.



Neither does the law in NC - and it is poorly written too.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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muff528

***I'd rather be in a bathroom with a transgender person...



Haven't seen any posts here (except yours) concerned with being in the same bathroom as a transexual person.

There doesn't need to have been a post about it when it was the entire reason behind the law which is now being discussed.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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JerryBaumchen

Hi rehmwa,

Quote

Though if Jerry is using this to "chat up" the ladies, then that's more of a real harassment issue to address. I know it was more of a tongue in cheek joke . . .



It was definitely tongue in cheek. However, on the serious side, who are you to tell me when I can or cannot chat up a woman? After all, it is only between her and I.

Jerry Baumchen



If she likes you, no problem, if she doesn't, then it's a freaking tragedy of violation of personal space and has to stop. And you are supposed to know ahead of time without asking her or having any other info. didn't you know?

(You have to recall, I'm very cynical about the 'correctness'. I don't really mind either way).

As for "who am I" in the question, isn't that what this whole thing is about? protecting people that aren't necessarily asking to be protected because the 'in thing' today is to be (socially conscious - or - religiously pure) enough to intrude our personal beliefs via legislation on everyone.

But, the whole point is about people being uncomfortable in public spaces, so the comment about "chatting up" (context usually tends to be in terms of aggressive males hitting on women - so very unliberal) is really just trading one set of discomfort (the fundies worried about 'those strange people in the bathrooms of our daughters') with another set of discomfort ("now male predators can chat up the womenfolk in the poopers".)

Sorry I used your comment as an example, but it's very applicable. (i.e., discomfort is subjective, that's why these things need to be left to the property owners and not the government).

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Hi rehmwa,

Quote

didn't you know?



If I did, I've been blanking it out of my mind for many, many years.

And I would have never married the woman that I did; I chatted her up at a New Year's Eve party that a very good friend brought her to.

B|

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Yes, he and I are still good friends.

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billvon

> Of course, we won't really know until data on a few bathroom assaults are collected and analyzed.

I guess we can look forward to such data now being available as a result of this law.



I seriously doubt that, with passage of this law, your "nightmare scenario" will play out with any significant change in current statistics. I think transsexual folks were using the rooms of their choice before the law and will continue to do so afterwards. Who is going to check? Who was checking before? It's already illegal to lift skirts or use shoe cams. It's even worse for someone to ask. So ...no meaningful data for you.

As far as your "less nightmarish" scenario (and that cartoon) goes, No one with any brains believes that any of these arguments are about a male who just wants to pee surprising women in the ladie's room, with or without the NC law. And for the 3rd or fifth time ...I can see where passing these kinds of laws can cause a blowback that results in legislation that has the opposite effect. That is where I can imagine a situation where predators will opportunistically take advantage of protections meant for others. That is what they do. That could be where you will find data you can look forward to.

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I'm skimming but I see one issue is the classic Male/Female bathroom door issue. What I see happening is what some places already do: Option 1, all toilets are unisex and consist of a toilet and a sink; Option 2, there's a sink lobby and enclosed toilets adjoin from there with one larger room being a urinal bank. This negates any issue of being in a room with organs that don't match how that urine is deposited.

However, this should really be a non-issue. Nobody is getting raped by freaky tranny's in bathrooms and the only reason a kid would be scared by anything is because their parents overreact.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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Quote

"JerryBaumchen"]Hi rehmwa,

***didn't you know?



If I did, I've been blanking it out of my mind for many, many years.

And I would have never married the woman that I did; I chatted her up at a New Year's Eve party that a very good friend brought her to.

B|

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Yes, he and I are still good friends.

that's a good story - You successful male predator type, you

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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> I think transsexual folks were using the rooms of their choice before the law and will
>continue to do so afterwards. Who is going to check? Who was checking before? It's
>already illegal to lift skirts or use shoe cams. It's even worse for someone to ask. So
>...no meaningful data for you.

I agree. Thus the law is useless; legislators have already admitted that it is unenforceable and won't accomplish anything. Its only purpose is to harass those "sick" transgendered people and prove that right wing politicians have "family values."

It will be interesting to see how those same politicians will react the next time a largely unenforceable gun law is proposed.

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JerryBaumchen

Hi okalb,

Quote

bathroom-law



The Republican Governor has started backpedaling, trying to brand the bill as “bipartisan” even though not a single state Democrat voted for it. In fact, they refused to even participate in the vote and walked out of the Senate chamber in a display of public protest against the law."



From the comments on that article, 10 or 11 Democrat representatives voted for it. They give 10 names.

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I recently vacationed in Costa Rica. Most of the bathrooms had a toilet only in a small room. The sinks were outside in a public area. Some places had a separate urinal area like DJL suggested. It seemed to be a perfect set-up for many reasons, none of which had anything to do with transgendered people.

- Dan G

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DanG

I recently vacationed in Costa Rica. Most of the bathrooms had a toilet only in a small room. The sinks were outside in a public area. Some places had a separate urinal area like DJL suggested. It seemed to be a perfect set-up for many reasons, none of which had anything to do with transgendered people.



That would work. I was thinking of providing a urinal in each "toilet room", but a separate urinal area is OK. That would free up more toilets.

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