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wolfriverjoe

North Carolina Anti-anti-discrimination law

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I haven't seen anything about this on here.

North Carolina recently passed a law that, among other things, bars local laws against discrimination against the LBGT people.

It also requires all people to use the bathroom designated for the gender they were born with. How in the world is that supposed to be enforced?

As a side note, it's been bouncing around on FB that there have been more Republican congressmen arrested for inappropriate behavior in public bathrooms than TGs.

Not surprisingly, there has been some outcry. And a lawsuit.
And some pushback.

PayPal cancelled plans to locate a facility (and it's 400 jobs) in Charlotte.
Hulu moved the filming of a show out of the state.
Bruce Springsteen cancelled a concert.
The NBA has discussed moving the All Star Game.

I loathe discrimination in any form.

It's kind of nice to see people and companies willing to take a financial hit to make the point that they do too.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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>It also requires all people to use the bathroom designated for the gender they were born with. . . .Not
>surprisingly, there has been some outcry. And a lawsuit. And some pushback.

One of the "nightmare scenarios" that has been posited is the 5'2" woman being forced to use the men's bathroom at a bar. If she was sexually assaulted in that bathroom, she'd probably have a very good case against the state.

A less nightmarish scenario would be the women who realize that this means that men will be using their bathroom without warning - because it's the law, of course. The resulting lawsuits would be interesting.

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billvon

>It also requires all people to use the bathroom designated for the gender they were born with. . . .Not
>surprisingly, there has been some outcry. And a lawsuit. And some pushback.

One of the "nightmare scenarios" that has been posited is the 5'2" woman being forced to use the men's bathroom at a bar. If she was sexually assaulted in that bathroom, she'd probably have a very good case against the state.

A less nightmarish scenario would be the women who realize that this means that men will be using their bathroom without warning - because it's the law, of course. The resulting lawsuits would be interesting.



The answer, of course, is to mandate multiple bathrooms, each labeled in its own special way. e.g., Birth Male (no change), Birth Female (no change), F>M Transsexual, M>F Transsexual, Neutered, Sex Neutral, Male Self-Identified as Female, Female Self-Identified as Male, Androgynous, etc., etc. Of course, the laws would prohibit the asking of any questions or requiring proof of status, so anyone could use any restroom. Obviously, the costs associated with providing these facilities would be passed along to the patrons. There might even be a mandate to provide for the possibility of future expansion of restroom types in case someone comes up with a yet unknown sexual identity type. This could really enhance a concert or other large-event experience as the waiting lines are diminished and the pee-pee dance becomes a thing of the past.

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the law is being misconstrued in the media, imagine that, being called anti-LGBT, what it does is protect 99.9% of the population, some think that a problem didn't exist but now one has been created by telling transgenders that they can't go in the bathroom of the sex that they want to be

it's a complicated issue with no good answers (much like abortion), one solution would be to have 3 bathrooms - male, female and unisex

PayPal is on the throne claiming they are high and mighty and will not build in NC - wonder why they think it's OK to have a hug operation in Malasyia where gay folks are arrested and jailed

Bruce Springstudlynot canceled a concert, guess he was upset he couldn't go in the girls room

- the law says that you must use public bathrooms based on the sex on your birth certificate, private business can do whatever they want

- the law strengthens job and employment protection

- the law eliminates county or city ordinances and says that state law applies

it is poorly written and leaves much open to interpretation, like all crappy laws the final version will be determined in court with the outcome of the inevitable lawsuits
Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

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How does it protect anyone?
I've never, not once, been able to identify a person's birth gender in a bathroom.
I've honestly never looked nor noticed.
Why in the hell would anyone?
We're gonna end up with generic port-a-potties everywhere.
Thanks Obama.

This is just silly.

How does any multi-gender environment, say a family home, deal with such a challenge?
:S

Some folks could at least a half effort to understand LGBT and get over their own ignorant fears.


We've cancelled our next 2 trips we had planned for NC.
Fuck them.

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normiss

....
We're gonna end up with generic port-a-potties everywhere....



In a sense, you have the answer right there.

Quote

How does any multi-gender environment, say a family home, deal with such a challenge?
:S



Not everyone in the family uses the bathroom at the same time. So, public bathrooms become more like home-type bathrooms, ...just more of them, each independently lockable while occupied. But no newspapers, magazines or mobile devices allowed! You don't have all day!

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>but now one has been created by telling transgenders that they can't go in the
>bathroom of the sex that they want to be

Well, no. It's telling transgenders they can't go in the bathroom of the sex they are.

>it's a complicated issue with no good answers (much like abortion), one solution would
>be to have 3 bathrooms - male, female and unisex

Or just "use the right bathroom." Most people can figure that out.

>Bruce Springstudlynot canceled a concert, guess he was upset he couldn't go in the
>girls room

Or upset that the incidence of rape and sexual assault might go up. Might be a big joke to some people; less so to the people at risk of such attacks.

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normiss

Or simply the stalls we have now with no urinals.



Why no urinals? Each unit should accommodate all. (Although, providing a standing solution in each stall is really not for the standers. It's actually a consideration for the sitters!)

Make the stalls a little more secure and maybe some security cams in the common areas and it might work.

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billvon

>but now one has been created by telling transgenders that they can't go in the bathroom of the sex that they want to be

Well, no. It's telling transgenders they can't go in the bathroom of the sex they are.

- you mean if they have had a sex change operation? if that's the case they can have their birth cert changed, no problem
- but the reality is that if someone looks in every way to be a certain sex but haven't had the plumbing changed, and they go in that bathroom and are discreet, no one would ever know and their wouldn't be a problem
***********************

>it's a complicated issue with no good answers (much like abortion), one solution would be to have 3 bathrooms - male, female and unisex

Or just "use the right bathroom." Most people can figure that out.

- this does make sense, the problem is with the word "most", those that intend to do harm, not transgenders, but the real pervs
******************
>Bruce Springstudlynot canceled a concert, guess he was upset he couldn't go in the girls room

Or upset that the incidence of rape and sexual assault might go up. Might be a big joke to some people; less so to the people at risk of such attacks.

- that is in fact the concern, that men can go into the womens bathroom legally, if you read the law it seems to be primarily written for schools where boys claim they need to go in the girls bathroom and locker room

- I can see both sides of this issue, no easy answer


Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

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billeisele

......
- this does make sense, the problem is with the word "most", those that intend to do harm, not transgenders, but the real pervs
....



Exactly. Opponents of such laws always try to make it about discrimination or some kind of ???-phobia. This type of reaction is meant to shut down discussion while not providing any reasonable solutions for real concerns. Tiring tactic.

The reality is that, unless actual implementation is better thought out, this (the de facto elimination of sex-specific restrooms) will make it easier for actual predators. IMO, re: billvon's concerns about a sexual assault, it is more likely to happen in that way rather than by an attack on a 5'2" transsexual woman who is forced to use the men's room because of birth plumbing. Of course, we won't really know until data on a few bathroom assaults are collected and analyzed.

I'm still in favor of eventually providing completely unisex restroom common area with more secure, private, unisex stalls for doing business as one solution. This would allow, for example, a father to take his young daughter into a restroom area (which is now accessible by all) and be able to keep an eye on the specific stall she is using. To me, that's even a little different (IMO, better) than taking her to the door of a public ladies' room and waiting outside for her. Also, folks are more likely to wash their hands on the way out if old Aunt Gertie is in there watching.

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Quote

This type of reaction is meant to shut down discussion while not providing any reasonable solutions for real concerns.



What is the real concern? It is a made up problem.

What is really telling in this law is that it bars localities from passing local anti-discrimination laws. How can anyone seriously claim this law isn't discriminatory when the law does that?

- Dan G

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DanG

Quote

This type of reaction is meant to shut down discussion while not providing any reasonable solutions for real concerns.



What is the real concern?



Providing cover for sexual predators who will use it to their advantage.

Quote

It is a made up problem.



Yes, i agree, it will create that problem.

Quote

What is really telling in this law is that it bars localities from passing local anti-discrimination laws. How can anyone seriously claim this law isn't discriminatory when the law does that?



I haven't commented either way concerning that specific law. I've only commented on what any consequences may be and on possible solutions that may make everyone happy. I can't say one way or the other if it is really discriminatory or if it's implementation creates "made-up" problems.

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I'd rather be in a bathroom with a transgender person than with any of these holier-than-thou "family values" Republicans (all a matter of public record):

Dennis Hastert - former Speaker, molested teenagers.

Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd was arrested on suspicion of soliciting sex with an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.

Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich of Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania pled no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo of Floyd County, Kentucky was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.

Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins of Asbury Park, New Jersey pled guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.

Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker of Nashua, New Hampshire is a convicted child molester.

Republican Mayor Philip Giordano of Waterbury, Connecticut is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8 and 10-year old girls.

Republican Mayor John Gosek of Oswego, New York was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.

Republican County Commissioner David Swartz of Richland County, Ohio pled guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

Republican Speaker of the Puerto Rico House of Representatives Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain of Monroe County, Pennsylvania was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.

Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth of Kannapolis, N.C., is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader of Witchita, Kansas pled guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.

Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency of Camden, New Jersey pled guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge of Soputhbay, California was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond of South Carolina had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

Republican pastor Mike Hintz of Des Moines, Iowa, who George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

Republican legislator Peter Dibble of New London, Connecticut pled no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer of Arizona was charged with molesting his 9-year old step daughter after including her in an anti-Gore television commercial.

Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. and Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence both of Washington, D.C. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

Republican Congressman Donald “Buz” Lukens of Columbus, Ohio was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio of Burke, Virginia was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

Republican activist Mark A. Grethen of Colorado Springs. Colorado was convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

Republican activist Randal David Ankeney of El Paso County, Arizona pled guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

Republican Congressman Dan Crane of Illinois had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

Republican activist and Christian Coalition and South Carolina Republican leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline of Orange County, California was placed under house arrest for child molestation and possession of child pornography.

Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman of Maryland was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

Republican Committee Chairman and attorney Jeffrey Patti of Sparta, New Jersey was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

Republican activist Marty Glickman of Florida (a.k.a. “Republican Marty”), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD. It was Glickman, interestingly enough, that claimed Bill Clinton came from a low rent state and had torn down all of the standards for the highest office in the land.

Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks of Quartz Hill, California was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway who had relocated to Maine from Huntsville, Alabama after having been accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

Republican preacher Stephen White of West Chester, Pennsylvania, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

Republican talk show host Jon Matthews of Houston, Texas pled guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

Republican anti-gay activist Earl “Butch” Kimmerling of Anderson, Indiana was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

Republican Party leader Paul Ingram of Thurston County, Washington pled guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

Republican election board official Kevin Coan of St. Louis, Missouri was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

Republican politician Andrew Buhr, also of St. Louis, was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

Republican politician Keith Westmoreland of Kingsport, Tennessee was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt of Pensacola, Florida was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.

Republican County Councilman Keola Childs of Hawaii County, Hawaii pled guilty to molesting a male child.

Republican activist John Butler of Cass County, Illinois was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

Republican candidate Richard Gardner of Clark County, Nevada admitted to molesting his two daughters.

Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner of Lancaster, Pennsylvania was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter of Boothbay, Maine pled guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. of Wrightsville Borough, Delaware pled no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall of Virginia was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

Republican city councilman Mark Harris of West Bend, Wisconsin, who has been described as a “good military man” and “church goer,” was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

Republican director of the “Young Republican Federation” Nicholas Elizondo of Bakersfield, California molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp, Russell Harding, pled guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.

Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen, Sr. of Kalispell, Montana, was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Providing cover for sexual predators who will use it to their advantage.



I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where this law will prevent a sexual predator from preying on anyone. If a man is intending on going into a bathroom to rape a woman, do you think he's going to stop because of this law? Can you give me an honest example of how this law is going to prevent any crime?

- Dan G

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In the locations which have anti-gay, TG, etc protections, there has been no increase in bathroom assaults. The fact that it's possible doesn't mean it actually happens detectably.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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billeisele

the law is being misconstrued in the media, imagine that, being called anti-LGBT, what it does is protect 99.9% of the population, some think that a problem didn't exist but now one has been created by telling transgenders that they can't go in the bathroom of the sex that they want to be



It affects a lot more than 0.1% of the population. It bans any anti-discrimination laws at the local level.

What problem existed before? Have there been any legitimate complaints about TG behavior in public bathrooms? Again, more US Congresscritters have been arrested for inappropriate behavior in public bathrooms than TG people.

Quote

Bruce Springstudlynot canceled a concert, guess he was upset he couldn't go in the girls room



Nice rational, reasonable, grown up comment.

Quote

- the law says that you must use public bathrooms based on the sex on your birth certificate, private business can do whatever they want



Where is the line between public and private drawn? (Honest question). Is a "public bathroom" in a private business affected (say a bathroom open to the public in a restaurant or gas station or similar)?

Quote

- the law eliminates county or city ordinances and says that state law applies



To a certain degree, having state-wide laws and not a "patchwork" of local ordinances is a good thing. But this law says (more or less) "Unless the state legislature decides to provide protection to the LBGT community, and it won't, they don't get any protection."
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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kallend

I'd rather be in a bathroom with a transgender person...



Haven't seen any posts here (except yours) concerned with being in the same bathroom as a transexual person.

Quote

...list of Republican pervs



Results for this study WRT Dem pervs "are expected to be released in the coming weeks".

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wmw999

In the locations which have anti-gay, TG, etc protections, there has been no increase in bathroom assaults. The fact that it's possible doesn't mean it actually happens detectably.

Wendy P.



Right, likewise with Bill's concern that assaults on transsexuals using the men's room will increase without those "protections". (which was the only reason for my responses WRT assaults.) Guess we'll have to wait for the numbers.

BTW- I'm in favor of completely unisex facilities, as described above. No discrimination at all.

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DanG

Quote

Providing cover for sexual predators who will use it to their advantage.



I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where this law will prevent a sexual predator from preying on anyone. If a man is intending on going into a bathroom to rape a woman, do you think he's going to stop because of this law? Can you give me an honest example of how this law is going to prevent any crime?



Again, IMO it is more likely that a Chester the Molester, operating under cover of a law allowing him to walk into any bathroom without raising suspicion, can target victims than a lack of "protections" will victimize a transsexual using the men's room.

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Hi muff,

Quote

I'm still in favor of eventually providing completely unisex restroom common area with more secure, private, unisex stalls for doing business as one solution.



I've been in bathrooms like this in Japan. It was somewhat unnerving the first time, but then you just get used to it. Something about as in Rome do as the Romans . . . . .

Plus it makes it easier to chat up a female when you're both washing your hands at the same time, side by side. People need to start looking at the upside of this. :P

Jerry Baumchen

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