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normiss

Creator of the Planned Parenthood videos!

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GTAVercetti

*********
What would you be right now if you were the product of rape?
What would you be now if your Mum decided you weren't convenient at the time?



Not alive.

Next question.

Is the world a better place because you were NOT aborted?

For my personal life? Absolutely. For my friends and family. I would say yes. For everyone. Meh.

This question of yours begs the return question of: Are you saying then that everyone person born makes the world better? Because, otherwise, I don't see how my single life fights your argument. If I had been aborted, it is not like I would know it, so I wouldn't really care that it happened.

I like to think that the world is better that you are in it.:)
I like the conversations, and the back and forth discussions.

But that is back in the realm of feelings.

Tell me - when is killing not killing?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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turtlespeed

************
What would you be right now if you were the product of rape?
What would you be now if your Mum decided you weren't convenient at the time?



Not alive.

Next question.

Is the world a better place because you were NOT aborted?

For my personal life? Absolutely. For my friends and family. I would say yes. For everyone. Meh.

This question of yours begs the return question of: Are you saying then that everyone person born makes the world better? Because, otherwise, I don't see how my single life fights your argument. If I had been aborted, it is not like I would know it, so I wouldn't really care that it happened.

I like to think that the world is better that you are in it.:)


Did Hitler, Himmler, Mao, Lenin and Stalin make the world a better place? How about Tim McVeigh? John Wayne Gacy? Osama? Charles Manson?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

***************
What would you be right now if you were the product of rape?
What would you be now if your Mum decided you weren't convenient at the time?



Not alive.

Next question.

Is the world a better place because you were NOT aborted?

For my personal life? Absolutely. For my friends and family. I would say yes. For everyone. Meh.

This question of yours begs the return question of: Are you saying then that everyone person born makes the world better? Because, otherwise, I don't see how my single life fights your argument. If I had been aborted, it is not like I would know it, so I wouldn't really care that it happened.

I like to think that the world is better that you are in it.:)


Did Hitler, Himmler, Mao, Lenin and Stalin make the world a better place? How about Tim McVeigh? John Wayne Gacy? Osama? Charles Manson?

How about Martin Luther King, Jr. , Einstein, Obama, Kennedy?

It's a crap shoot. What's your point? Do you have data that says that your names they were considered for abortion?

As an aside - I'm glad your Mum didn't abort you too.:)
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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turtlespeed



How about Martin Luther King, Jr. , Einstein, Obama, Kennedy?

It's a crap shoot. What's your point? Do you have data that says that your names they were considered for abortion?

As an aside - I'm glad your Mum didn't abort you too.:)



His point (and I mine because I believe them to be the same) is that basing abortion on potential is foolhardy. If your argument is "Don't abort! That could be the savior of the human race!" then you can't win. Because the opposite argument can be immediately made, completely negating the idea that "every life is precious."

I am sure kallend with disabuse me of my assumption if that is not what he meant. :)
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

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GOP Family Values:

www.cnn.com/2016/04/09/politics/dennis-hastert-sexual-abuse-allegations/

I hope he gets a long sentence.

Of the leaders of the Clinton impeachment proceedings, we now know that:

Gingrich (R) was concealing an extra-marital affair with his aide.
Livingston (R) was concealing 4 extra-marital affairs
Hyde (R) was concealing an extra marital affair
and Hastert (R) was just a criminal pervert.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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turtlespeed

******************
What would you be right now if you were the product of rape?
What would you be now if your Mum decided you weren't convenient at the time?



Not alive.

Next question.

Is the world a better place because you were NOT aborted?

For my personal life? Absolutely. For my friends and family. I would say yes. For everyone. Meh.

This question of yours begs the return question of: Are you saying then that everyone person born makes the world better? Because, otherwise, I don't see how my single life fights your argument. If I had been aborted, it is not like I would know it, so I wouldn't really care that it happened.

I like to think that the world is better that you are in it.:)


Did Hitler, Himmler, Mao, Lenin and Stalin make the world a better place? How about Tim McVeigh? John Wayne Gacy? Osama? Charles Manson?

How about Martin Luther King, Jr. , Einstein, Obama, Kennedy?

It's a crap shoot. What's your point? Do you have data that says that your names they were considered for abortion?

As an aside - I'm glad your Mum didn't abort you too.:)
Thank you for finally admitting that your "what if" argument is ridiculous.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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The tadpole/frog thing is more apt. It speaks to transition phases and has been used for thousands of years.

Speaking of things that have been used for thousands of years. Abortions have taken place for thousands of years. Because of limited science at the time, the traditional date in that context for deciding when life begins is when the heart starts beating; also known as "the quickening."

It's only in fairly recent times has anyone considered life to begin at conception. Prior to this, it was not considered "murder" by anyone if the fetus was aborted prior to the quickening.

With modern science the moment something becomes "alive" is a bit murkier. I honestly don't think anyone can truly define it. It tends to get set at a certain number of weeks for legal purposes, but that's not quite the same thing.

(BTW, Wendy I suspect you know all this, but I include it for others.)

So when somebody asks the question, "Tell me - when is killing not killing?", the answer really depends on when you consider something alive and its own separate entity. Hence the tadpole/frog statement.

Pretty much every cell in your body has the DNA to create a human. Am I to consider every cell as a separate human? Probably not. What about a collection of cells? If a doctor has to remove a tumor is that murder? Probably not.

So, when does a tadpole become a frog?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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quade

The tadpole/frog thing is more apt. It speaks to transition phases and has been used for thousands of years.

Speaking of things that have been used for thousands of years. Abortions have taken place for thousands of years. Because of limited science at the time, the traditional date in that context for deciding when life begins is when the heart starts beating; also known as "the quickening."...



Not trying to be argumentative, but the "quickening" is traditionally defined as when the mother can detect movement.

Which is a lot further along than heartbeat.

But, IMHO, all of this "convenience" or lack of, sin, responsible fucking, whatever discussion is pointless.

It's none of my business. Period.

Any reproductive decision made before the fetus is viable outside the womb is solely the woman's.

I find it absolutely despicable that all these men are trying to dictate what a woman does, yet seem to completely absolve the man in the equation of any responsibility.

Here's a smiley thought:

How many of the men who consider abortion "murder", and would advocate punishing the woman would advocate punishing the man?

How about any man who impregnates a certain amount of women that ends up in abortion (say 3 for example) gets his dick cut off. Not a vasectomy, removal.
Obviously, he isn't capable of making good decisions about having sex. So remove his ability to do so.

If his testes are still intact, he can father children in the future, but he's going to have to really want to and be able to afford the procedure to extract the sperm.

Yes,, the above is "tongue planted firmly in cheek", and sarcasm too.

But the overall tendency to punish the woman while the man is not held responsible in any way is ridiculous. Ron for example. He feels guilty about signing off on the abortion, but makes no mention that he was responsible (at least 50%) for the unwanted pregnancy in the first place.

Last - with 6 billion people on the earth, and the number is growing rapidly, any decision not to bring another person into the world is probably a good one.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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I agree with you. I have a problem with the tadpole/frog thing. A tadpole is hatched from an egg. It's already nearly a frog. Complicates things even more.

Ron did say that he recognized his mistake, and that he never tried to father another one. He actually does seem to acknowledge his role.

But the further we get into discussions of morality the further we get from the real fundamental issue. It can not be both murder, and alright in some circumstances. If it is murder, I can see no justification for allowing murder in cases of rape. It is either murder or choice. I believe it is a matter between a woman and a healthcare provider and it is not murder.

The US SC says there is a cutoff at the point of viability. That is also the de facto practice in Canada where there are no actual laws on abortion.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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quade

***Tell me - when is killing not killing?



Tell me - when does a tadpole become a frog?
If you kill a tadpole are you killing the frog too?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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Although I know the following means little in this forum; FWIW, many Christians use Jeremiah 1:4-6 as their basis of belief.

Jeremiah 1:4-6King James Version (KJV)

4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
(emphasis mine)
6 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.

IOW, human life begins at conception.

Are there circumstances when life can be legitimately terminated? Unequivocally yes, through justifiable abortion and execution.

The question for society is, when is it justified?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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quade

***Not trying to be argumentative, but the "quickening" is traditionally defined as when the mother can detect movement.



Damn. Right you are.

Premise still holds regardless.

When does a tadpole become a frog?

Absolutely premise still holds.

Again, I was not trying to be argumentative. You are just usually better with your facts and definitions than that ;)

And heartbeat is around 18 days (at least that's what all the billboards say). 'Quickening' is about halfway (20 weeks).

As I noted above, I would say the "tadpole becomes a frog" when it's viable outside the womb. Current record is about 21 weeks gestation. Interesting that it's roughly equivalent to the traditional quickening.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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quade

***Tell me - when is killing not killing?



Tell me - when does a tadpole become a frog?

When it joins the GOP?:|
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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RonD1120

Although I know the following means little in this forum; FWIW, many Christians use Jeremiah 1:4-6 as their basis of belief.

Jeremiah 1:4-6King James Version (KJV)

4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
(emphasis mine)
6 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.

IOW, human life begins at conception.

Are there circumstances when life can be legitimately terminated? Unequivocally yes, through justifiable abortion and execution.

The question for society is, when is it justified?



Once again, a quote from the bible cherry picked so as to support an opinion that makes no sense to the non-religious. Isn't the KJB the one that has all the info on how to sell your daughters into slavery, the restrictions on un-natural fibers in clothing, and the restrictions on what you can eat on Fridays?

The USA is a SECULAR nation. You are free to believe in whatever fantasy man in the sky you want to. Keep that shit out of the personal lives of the non religious and we can co-exist peacefully. Try to inflict that nonsense on my sisters, my nieces, grand nieces, and their families and you will get severe pushback.

One of Cheech and Chong's best lines is "I used to be all messed up on drugs. Now I am all messed up on the lord."

Religion appears to work well for the weak minded. As long as they don't try to inflict it on others, no problem.

As far as the subject of this thread, the scumbag that tricked morons into believing that Planned Parenthood did something wrong, he needs to go to jail for a long time and lose all assets in a civil suit by PP.

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Quote

IOW, human life begins at conception.

Are there circumstances when life can be legitimately terminated? Unequivocally yes, through justifiable abortion and execution.

The question for society is, when is it justified?



The question I have for you is how do you define "justifiable abortion" under the "life begins at conception doctrine". I think I can make a case for saving a mother's life. But can you think of any other ways to justify it?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

Quote

IOW, human life begins at conception.

Are there circumstances when life can be legitimately terminated? Unequivocally yes, through justifiable abortion and execution.

The question for society is, when is it justified?



Saving the mother's life is the only circumstance I am comfortable with.

The question I have for you is how do you define "justifiable abortion" under the "life begins at conception doctrine". I think I can make a case for saving a mother's life. But can you think of any other ways to justify it?



Interesting, my response disappeared.

The only circumstance with which I am comfortable is saving the mother's life.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

Although I know the following means little in this forum; FWIW, many Christians use Jeremiah 1:4-6 as their basis of belief.

Jeremiah 1:4-6King James Version (KJV)

4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
(emphasis mine)
6 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.

IOW, human life begins at conception.



Bad logic. It means JEREMIAH'S life began before conception, according to the hallucination of a self-proclaimed prophet who clearly suffered from what we now call clinical depression.

IOW every sperm is sacred.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Even if obtained illegally, the videos recorded principals of the PP stating they sold aborted baby parts, IIRC.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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quade

***IOW, human life begins at conception.



Opinion, not based in fact, but a sketchy interpretation of what many people consider to be mythology.

And, what many people believe to be the guiding words of life.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Even if obtained illegally, the videos recorded principals of the PP stating they sold aborted baby parts, IIRC.



I think you meant to say, "Even if obtained illegally, the videos recorded principals of the PP stating they provided fetal tissue to researchers at cost, in accordance with federal laws."

- Dan G

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