Donald Trump Versus Hillary Clinton

[jakee 1,254]

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which is why Trump supporters tend to be more successful than democrats overall - at least financially.

Is that true, specifically, or have you substituted 'Trump supporter' for 'republican'?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 622]

I think it an anal exctracted statistic.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

You must be in good company when the leader of The American Nazi Party endorses you.

I wish I would have seen this thread first.

Nothing quite like a grand endorsement from a grand dragon.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,396]

>I think it an anal exctracted statistic.

Doesn't really matter. What matters is what the spin is.

Trump supporters more wealthy? Then they are the hardworking Americans who have earned their money. That's who Trump represents, not the indigent, unemployed takers on welfare who want government handouts. They are Elon Musk, not Octamom.

Trump supporters less wealthy? Then they are the hardworking middle class who made this country great, not the out-of-touch wealthy Wall Street and ivory tower types who have their money handed to them. They are Joe the Plumber, not George Soros.

I'm sure that Google will get a good 15 second workout, and one of the above will prevail.

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

>Ok, but this article is referring to education. JB was talking about intellect - there is a difference.

There is indeed - but there is a strong correlation between the two. Political scientist Charles Murray wrote a book "Coming Apart" on the changes in the US white population from 1960 to 2012. He cites two separate studies that compare IQ to highest level of education achieved - one from 1982-1989 and one from 2005-2009. The correlations are almost identical. They are:

White Americans with no degree: Average IQ 87
White Americans with high school diploma/GED: Average IQ 99
White Americans with an Associate degree: Average IQ 104
White Americans with a Bachelor’s degree: Average IQ 113
White Americans with a Master’s degree: Average IQ 117
White Americans with PhD, LLD, MD, or DDS: Average IQ 124

It is from those lower educational levels, correlated with lower IQ's, that most of Trump's supporters arise.

...but the fact remains that uneducated Trump supporters are still financially more successful than educated Clinton supporters - so apparently a high IQ is no substitute for a life experience that equips one to make wise decisions and overcome life's challenges.

I had a good conservative friend upstate. Our conversations primarily revolved around baseball, God and hunting. I tried to talk with him about the science behind black holes and the cosmos, but he'd always interrupt me and say - "Corey, I don't know what you're talking about. You could tell me the moon was made of cheese and I'd believe you."

The thing was, was that he was one of the most responsible people I've ever met. He didn't live recklessly. He didn't take unnecessary risks. His was fiscally responsible and financially secure. He raised 4 successful children and retired at the age of 50 with plenty of investments along with some modest rental properties - he made good decisions, yet was dumber than a box of rox.

Contrast that with practically all of my educated liberal friends who aren't even nearly as successful - they can barely handle one kid without feeding him amphetamines because "he has trouble listening." While others still haven't found a good job in their field in the last 10 years and are still living in their parents basements praying that Bernie's secular humanity will save them from the harsh realities of the world. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

Quote

which is why Trump supporters tend to be more successful than democrats overall - at least financially.

Is that true, specifically, or have you substituted 'Trump supporter' for 'republican'?

In my post, I specifically made the distinction between the more successful educated republican voters and trump supporters. Those that voted for Kasich had a median income of about 90k, while trump supporters had a median income of about 72k which is about 20k higher than the average and about 12k more than Clinton/Sanders supporters.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

I think it an anal exctracted statistic.

Ya, most americans are living on money pulled out of their asses, and when the next bubble bursts it will be unlike anything we've ever seen - it won't matter who the president is - so frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

>I think it an anal exctracted statistic.

Doesn't really matter. What matters is what the spin is.

Exactly - and the spin that you're ignoring is JB's comment on how trump supporters are a bunch of morons that hate black people and want to make this a "whites only" country.

The fact is that the people saying those things are just admittedly scared shitless, so they're trying to influence public opinion with a bunch of anecdotal bullshit that doesn't mean anything.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

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The thing was, was that he was one of the most responsible people I've ever met. He didn't live recklessly. He didn't take unnecessary risks. His was fiscally responsible and financially secure. He raised 4 successful children and retired at the age of 50 with plenty of investments along with some modest rental properties - he made good decisions, yet was dumber than a box of rox.

Contrast that with practically all of my educated liberal friends who aren't even nearly as successful

Lol right - even if your assertions are true, when you take your absolute best republican friend and contrast him with your average liberal friends then it's no surprise that he's better.

Now be honest and take your absoute best liberal friend and contrast him with your average republican friends and guess what? The liberal will sound awesome and the republicans will sound irresponsible.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,623]

Coreeece

***>Ok, but this article is referring to education. JB was talking about intellect - there is a difference.

There is indeed - but there is a strong correlation between the two. Political scientist Charles Murray wrote a book "Coming Apart" on the changes in the US white population from 1960 to 2012. He cites two separate studies that compare IQ to highest level of education achieved - one from 1982-1989 and one from 2005-2009. The correlations are almost identical. They are:

White Americans with no degree: Average IQ 87
White Americans with high school diploma/GED: Average IQ 99
White Americans with an Associate degree: Average IQ 104
White Americans with a Bachelor’s degree: Average IQ 113
White Americans with a Master’s degree: Average IQ 117
White Americans with PhD, LLD, MD, or DDS: Average IQ 124

It is from those lower educational levels, correlated with lower IQ's, that most of Trump's supporters arise.

...but the fact remains that uneducated Trump supporters are still financially more successful than educated Clinton supporters - so apparently a high IQ is no substitute for a life experience that equips one to make wise decisions and overcome life's challenges.



Do you have data to back that up?

Quote

I had a good conservative friend upstate. Our conversations primarily revolved around baseball, God and hunting. I tried to talk with him about the science behind black holes and the cosmos, but he'd always interrupt me and say - "Corey, I don't know what you're talking about. You could tell me the moon was made of cheese and I'd believe you."

The thing was, was that he was one of the most responsible people I've ever met. He didn't live recklessly. He didn't take unnecessary risks. His was fiscally responsible and financially secure. He raised 4 successful children and retired at the age of 50 with plenty of investments along with some modest rental properties - he made good decisions, yet was dumber than a box of rox.

Contrast that with practically all of my educated liberal friends who aren't even nearly as successful - they can barely handle one kid without feeding him amphetamines because "he has trouble listening." While others still haven't found a good job in their field in the last 10 years and are still living in their parents basements praying that Bernie's secular humanity will save them from the harsh realities of the world. . .

Anecdote <> data.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 1,911]

From where I sit, and what I can see, there is no good logical reason for anyone to think that Despicable Donald would make a good, or even a marginally acceptable POTUS. Yet he has had a significant number of supporters from the start, and he increased them for awhile.

Even most of his supporters must know he is in no way qualified, so that leaves everyone else to speculate on the great question of the day........."What The Hell Are These People Thinking".

It is my belief that most of them are not actually thinking at all. They just can't be. There are not that many stupid people in America. If they are not stupid something else is motivating them. And it is not something to be proud of, that's for sure.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

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Exactly - and the spin that you're ignoring is JB's comment on how trump supporters are a bunch of morons that hate black people and want to make this a "whites only" country.

Fuck those dirty beaners.
Seig Heil.
Fuck that nigger.


I'll let you guess if these are comments from a Trump rally or a Clinton rally.

Quite frankly, it is an absolute disgrace this is what is loudly spoken at rallies supporting the Presidential nominee of 1 of 2 major parties in your country.

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

Quote

The thing was, was that he was one of the most responsible people I've ever met. He didn't live recklessly. He didn't take unnecessary risks. His was fiscally responsible and financially secure. He raised 4 successful children and retired at the age of 50 with plenty of investments along with some modest rental properties - he made good decisions, yet was dumber than a box of rox.

Contrast that with practically all of my educated liberal friends who aren't even nearly as successful

Lol right

Ok, you got me - he's still raising his youngest daughter so I suppose she doesn't qualify as "sucessful" just yet.

jakee

even if your assertions are true, when you take your absolute best republican friend and contrast him with your average liberal friends then it's no surprise that he's better.

But we weren't talking about my best republican friend vs my average liberal friends - we were talking about uneducated Trump supporters vs educated liberals.

The fact is that those uneducated Trump supporters are still better off financially that educated Hillary supporters - I was simply trying to illustrate why that may be and why this type of "uneducated conservative vs educated liberal" rhetoric doesn't really mean anything.

jakee

Now be honest

I would say that I also have responsible liberal friends that are extremely successful, but they tend to be uneducated self-employed college drop-outs working in television, graphic design, Hollywood, IT or network security. So again, we see that a high IQ and book smarts aren't necessary to equip you with the ability to overcome life's challenges and make wise decisions.

...but this wasn't about uneducated liberals, so I didn't see a reason to bring them up. The important fact to remember however is that no matter how you slice and dice it, "uneducated" Trump supporters still make more money than educated liberal voters.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

***
...but the fact remains that uneducated Trump supporters are still financially more successful than educated Clinton supporters - so apparently a high IQ is no substitute for a life experience that equips one to make wise decisions and overcome life's challenges.

Do you have data to back that up?

Take your pick and enjoy the spin - Apparently they even found a way to turn the success of Trump supporters into a bad thing:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/05/05/donald-trump-average-voter-income-72000-middle-class/83972800/

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/

http://election.princeton.edu/2016/05/07/among-republican-voters-trump-supporters-have-the-lowest-income/

http://time.com/money/4318531/trump-middle-class-voters/

kallend

***I had a good conservative friend upstate. Our conversations primarily revolved around baseball, God and hunting. I tried to talk with him about the science behind black holes and the cosmos, but he'd always interrupt me and say - "Corey, I don't know what you're talking about. You could tell me the moon was made of cheese and I'd believe you."

The thing was, was that he was one of the most responsible people I've ever met. He didn't live recklessly. He didn't take unnecessary risks. His was fiscally responsible and financially secure. He raised 4 successful children and retired at the age of 50 with plenty of investments along with some modest rental properties - he made good decisions, yet was dumber than a box of rox.

Contrast that with practically all of my educated liberal friends who aren't even nearly as successful - they can barely handle one kid without feeding him amphetamines because "he has trouble listening." While others still haven't found a good job in their field in the last 10 years and are still living in their parents basements praying that Bernie's secular humanity will save them from the harsh realities of the world. . .

Anecdote <> data.

Oh yeah, but I didn't see you call out Jerry for his anecdotal bullshit - at least I was trying to illustrate a legitimate point.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[kallend 1,623]

Coreeece

******
...but the fact remains that uneducated Trump supporters are still financially more successful than educated Clinton supporters - so apparently a high IQ is no substitute for a life experience that equips one to make wise decisions and overcome life's challenges.

Do you have data to back that up?

Take your pick and enjoy the spin - Apparently they even found a way to turn the success of Trump supporters into a bad thing:



The spin is entirely yours.

You wrote of "educated Clinton supporters", not all Clinton supporters, and "uneducated Trump supporters", not all Trump supporters. The data you provided do not break down voters by educational level so cannot support your position.

Also, the Dem data include many minorities whereas the Trump data are almost exclusively from whites. It is beyond denial that whites get the advantage of far better schools than minorities in the USA, and that minorities are, for the most part, economically disadvantaged for that and for historical reasons.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

*********
...but the fact remains that uneducated Trump supporters are still financially more successful than educated Clinton supporters - so apparently a high IQ is no substitute for a life experience that equips one to make wise decisions and overcome life's challenges.

Do you have data to back that up?

Take your pick and enjoy the spin - Apparently they even found a way to turn the success of Trump supporters into a bad thing:



The spin is entirely yours.

You wrote of "educated Clinton supporters", not all Clinton supporters, and "uneducated Trump supporters", not all Trump supporters. The data you provided do not break down voters by educational level so cannot support your position.

Also, the Dem data include many minorities whereas the Trump data are almost exclusively from whites. It is beyond denial that whites get the advantage of far better schools than minorities in the USA, and that minorities are, for the most part, economically disadvantaged for that and for historical reasons.

Oh, now you want to start talking about the uneducated democrats and point out all the subtle differences - now all of a sudden things don't seem so black and white. . .

besides, we weren't talking about whites with a better education. This whole thing was about how uneducated Trump supporters are. You just can't stomach the fact that they might be more successful than you.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[DanG 1]

All those articles are from the same study done by 538.com in May, well before the primary was over.

- Dan G

[Coreeece 2]

DanG

All those articles are from the same study done by 538.com

Ya, so what? John asked for data - is it not reliable enough for you? I posted the other articles to show you how they'll even spin success into a bad thing if you're a Trump supporter.

I just don't understand why any of this matters. Who cares if Trump supporters are less educated. Who cares if they make more money than you? Both camps tend to have a median income that's above the national average, and both camps have demonstrated that they can lead a productive life and make wise decisions for themselves - that's all that really matters.

Of course there will always be unsuccessful morons that can't go anywhere in life, but they have the right to vote as well - and there plenty of these types on both sides.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[billvon 2,396]

Quote

but the fact remains that uneducated Trump supporters are still financially more successful than educated Clinton supporters - so apparently a high IQ is no substitute for a life experience that equips one to make wise decisions and overcome life's challenges.

Or intelligence alone does not make up for being born with parents willing to make "small loans" to you of a million dollars or so.

Quote

Contrast that with practically all of my educated liberal friends who aren't even nearly as successful - they can barely handle one kid without feeding him amphetamines because "he has trouble listening."

So almost all your "liberal" friends give their kids amphetamines, and some of your good conservative friends don't understand basic science.

The issue there might be the crowd you hang around with. If all my conservative friends were ignorant thieves, I wouldn't decide that all republicans were ignorant thieves - I'd think I should stop hanging around with so many ignorant thieves.

[Coreeece 2]

The point was to illustrate how uneducated Trump supporters can still be responsible decision makers that are more sucessful than educated liberals. Sorry if thats too much for you to handle.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 622]

More like it's too much for you to prove, no matter how much you've twisted it.

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

More like it's too much for you to prove, no matter how much you've twisted it.

Jerry and billvon said that the majority of Trump supporters were uneducated. I posted a study that showed that they are finacially more sucessful. Why is that so hard for you to accept?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[billvon 2,396]

>The point was to illustrate how uneducated Trump supporters can still be
>responsible decision makers that are more sucessful than educated liberals.

You can be a responsible decision maker at any intelligence level. Someone with a very low intelligence might well make the wise decision, for example, to have someone else do their taxes, or to heed their doctor's advice rather than advice from the Internet.

>I just don't understand why any of this matters. Who cares if Trump supporters
>are less educated.

You do, very much. When someone else posted "The vast majority of support for Trump is from white males with a low intellect" you said "Lol, what complete utter shit."

If you now have changed your mind and decided that you don't care any more, that's fine.

[gowlerk 1,911]

Quote

The point was to illustrate how uneducated Trump supporters can still be responsible decision makers that are more sucessful than educated liberals. Sorry if thats too much for you to handle.

Educated or not, liberal or conservative. Can you give me one good reason to support Trump for POTUS? Is there one?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[ryoder 1,382]

gowlerk

Educated or not, liberal or conservative. Can you give me one good reason to support Trump for POTUS? Is there one?

"Electrolytes; It's what plants crave."

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.