Are you Americans crazy enough to put Donald Trump in office?

[DJL 232]

jakee

***Now that you mention it, the Japanese did plan the slaughter of their own people through conscription. There was a saying in the Japanese military that the grunts were only worth X because that was what it would cost to replace them with another conscript (I forget the amount, but it was not much) most of whom were peasant farmers.

Ever read a book on WW1 tactics?

However expendable the Japanese command thought their soldiers were in WW2, every single nation involved in WW1 did it worse and that was only 30 years earlier.

Just like if a current administration planned a military campaign with projected loss rates similar to anything the allies did in WW2, there would be uproar, outrage and quite probably widespread mutiny.

Yeah, they were barely more advanced than Napoleonic tactics which were barely evolved from the use of sword and shield. Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DJL 232]

jcd11235

***Yes, that apparently is how the real world works. Make the other dumb bastards quit or die.

Except that strategy doesn't seem to be working. Doubling down on an ineffective strategy isn't wise.

He's just paraphrasing Patton: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[jcd11235 0]

DJL

He's just paraphrasing Patton: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

I know the quote. It's still a strategy that has proven itself highly ineffective.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[gowlerk 1,910]

DJL

Quote

You may have something there. Japanese culture is one of the most racist in the world. But they did not have a "final solution". That was a special thing only the Nazi's under Hitler had.

That's not accurate. The Japanese atrocities in WWII eclipsed those of Germany: https://dose.com/articles/the-asian-holocaust-killed-twice-as-many-people-as-the-nazis-did/

I agree that Japanese behavior was very bad. However I have never heard of anything from them that equaled the Nazi killing factories. I'm not talking so much about sheer numbers, but the thinking behind the actions. There is something very special about unloading train cars full of people and marching them straight into death chambers.

There is no shortage of evil.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[nolhtairt 0]

Been a good week for Trump (yes I know, depends on your perspective):

3.9% Unemployment (all time low black unemployment 6.6%)

Captured 5 top ISIS leaders

Trump and Kim Jong Un meeting scheduled in Singapore to hash out De-nuclearization of Korean peninsula

Three Korean-American prisoners released.

Terrible Iran deal scrapped.

Mueller investigation showing cracks.

Make America Great Again.

And naturally, the libtard media outlets are focused on Stormy Daniels and anything they can twist out of Russiagate to fit their agenda. SAD.

[DJL 232]

nolhtairt

Been a good week for Trump (yes I know, depends on your perspective):

3.9% Unemployment (all time low black unemployment 6.6%)

Captured 5 top ISIS leaders

Trump and Kim Jong Un meeting scheduled in Singapore to hash out De-nuclearization of Korean peninsula

Three Korean-American prisoners released.

Terrible Iran deal scrapped.

Mueller investigation showing cracks.

Make America Great Again.

And naturally, the libtard media outlets are focused on Stormy Daniels and anything they can twist out of Russiagate to fit their agenda. SAD.

Lol, "been a good week", posted before 11AM on Monday.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[nolhtairt 0]

DJL

***Been a good week for Trump (yes I know, depends on your perspective):

3.9% Unemployment (all time low black unemployment 6.6%)

Captured 5 top ISIS leaders

Trump and Kim Jong Un meeting scheduled in Singapore to hash out De-nuclearization of Korean peninsula

Three Korean-American prisoners released.

Terrible Iran deal scrapped.

Mueller investigation showing cracks.

Make America Great Again.

And naturally, the libtard media outlets are focused on Stormy Daniels and anything they can twist out of Russiagate to fit their agenda. SAD.

Lol, "been a good week", posted before 11AM on Monday. Okay fair enough. Last week was a good week.

Oh, I forgot to add, the opening of the new US embassy in Jerusalem. So finally, the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995, passed by the Senate 93-5 and the House 374-37, during Bill Clinton's presidency, and punted down the road by Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama, has been completed.

[DJL 232]

Quote

Okay fair enough. Last week was a good week.

Oh, I forgot to add, the opening of the new US embassy in Jerusalem. So finally, the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995, passed by the Senate 93-5 and the House 374-37, during Bill Clinton's presidency, and punted down the road by Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama, has been completed.

I figured that's what you meant but couldn't help myself.

I'm not so sure that the outcome of the embassy move was very good. So far several dozen people have been killed in protests and let's just say that the choice for leading the opening prayer was interesting. The point has never been whether we want the embassy in Jerusalem but how do we do it with stirring the shit pot, it's basic diplomacy. This is exactly why those previous Presidents held off and dismissing those concerns isn't exactly admirable. Besides we all know that Trump knows jack shit in regards to our embassies, this was just another issue he pulled out of a hat and it got good reactions with his crowds.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

And no other country has it's Israeli embassy in Jerusalem. Only Tel Aviv.

Think there's maybe a reason for that?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[wmw999 2,120]

Some of those are good things. He’s done well with N Korea. Unemployment is a really good number.
I completely disagree about Iran and Jerusalem; Iran for reasons I’ve articulated, Jerusalem because, yes, it’s stirring the pot. Of course it is — Trump loves stirring the pot. It’s why we have Twitter!

About the Mueller investigation, let’s see what it turns up. After all, if there could be multiple investigations of Hillary Clinton for the same thing, maybe one of Trump is warranted.

I find it interesting that while you think Trumps doing great based on these, you didn’t think Obama did well by having Bin Laden killed, having people released from N Korea also, and having a far greater improvement in both the stock market and the unemployment rate on a percentage basis.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[nolhtairt 0]

DJL

Quote

Okay fair enough. Last week was a good week.

Oh, I forgot to add, the opening of the new US embassy in Jerusalem. So finally, the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995, passed by the Senate 93-5 and the House 374-37, during Bill Clinton's presidency, and punted down the road by Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama, has been completed.

I figured that's what you meant but couldn't help myself.

I'm not so sure that the outcome of the embassy move was very good. So far several dozen people have been killed in protests and let's just say that the choice for leading the opening prayer was interesting. The point has never been whether we want the embassy in Jerusalem but how do we do it with stirring the shit pot, it's basic diplomacy. This is exactly why those previous Presidents held off and dismissing those concerns isn't exactly admirable. Besides we all know that Trump knows jack shit in regards to our embassies, this was just another issue he pulled out of a hat and it got good reactions with his crowds.

If Congress thought it would be a bad idea to move the embassy to Jerusalem, then they wouldn't have passed the bill. It was passed with an overwhelming majority.

As for the rioting along the border fence, the blame for that lays squarely at Hamas' feet. They have been sending women and children as well as their men not just to protest, but also to breach the fence and get into Israel. Not to mention throwing rocks and trying to plant a bomb at the fence. IDF don't fuck around.

I have come to the conclusion that Palestinians are dumb as shit AND Hamas is taking advantage of it by leading them to a slaughter they hope will gain world wide condemnation of Israel.

[TriGirl 268]

Bob_Church

And giving school children on Okinawa two hand grenades each with orders to pull the pins and run into groups of Allied troops while holding them.

Okinawans are not Japanese (ethnically). They're Ryukyuans. To the Imperial Japanese, they were "others," not their own.

(Yeah, I know the thread has moved on, but this needed to be addressed).

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[TriGirl 268]

nolhtairt

Oh, I forgot to add, the opening of the new US embassy in Jerusalem. So finally, the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995, passed by the Senate 93-5 and the House 374-37, during Bill Clinton's presidency, and punted down the road by Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama, has been completed.

All we did was re-designate the Consulate as an Embassy. Pretty easy to do. According to news reports, the Ambassador won't even be relocating for the foreseeable future. So, did we REALLY relocate the embassy? Or just paste a new name on an existing building?

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[billvon 2,396]

>If Congress thought it would be a bad idea to move the embassy to Jerusalem, then
>they wouldn't have passed the bill. It was passed with an overwhelming majority.

Surely you don't think that 1) Congress is all that smart or 2) things that are passed are done so because they are 'good ideas?' It is quite common in this sort of thing to say you want to do something to placate your base, then do the opposite - either by voting against it, or by voting for it knowing the president will veto or stop implementation of it. That way you get the votes (by saying "I support this") but don't have to take on the responsibility of actually doing something foolish.

That's what happened in this case. Every president since 1995 - including Trump - has signed six month waivers to delay the move of the embassy, since it will cause a lot of grief to the peace process.

In the meantime public opinion has moved solidly against it, because there's a desire for peace in the Middle East, and moving the embassy works against that (as we have seen from recent events.)

[billvon 2,396]

>So, did we REALLY relocate the embassy? Or just paste a new name on an existing building?

Especially since Trump has signed a waiver to prevent the move of the embassy twice.

[Bob_Church 7]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/06/japan.schoolsworldwide


Choho Zukeran was a schoolboy, mobilised to dig beachfront trenches, when US soldiers landed on his native Okinawa, sparking one of the bloodiest battles of the second world war. Over the next few weeks, some 200,000 Japanese and Americans would die, including more than a quarter of Okinawa's civilian population. Most died in the invasion, others killed themselves - on the orders of the army that was supposed to be protecting them.
"The army had given us two grenades each. They told us to hurl the first one at the enemy and to use the second one to kill ourselves," Mr Zukeran told the Guardian from his home in Okinawa, a subtropical island 1,000 miles south-west of Tokyo. Whole families and communities committed suicide together.
Yet if the government in Tokyo gets its way, Japanese children may never learn how hundreds of Okinawa residents, under direct or indirect pressure from the military, took their own lives.


This year the education ministry ordered publishers of seven high-school textbooks to be introduced next April to remove references to the forced suicides. The ministry said "it was not clear there were military orders [to commit suicide]" and that "recent studies suggest there were no such orders".
The demand is part of a growing movement to sanitise - or simply ignore - the darkest episodes in modern Japanese history, which have gathered pace under one of the most conservative governments of recent decades, led by the hawkish prime minister, Shinzo Abe.
A long simmering row over the 1937 massacre of tens of thousands of Chinese civilians in Nanking by Japanese forces has been reignited by renewed efforts to play down the carnage. Last month about 130 Japanese MPs denounced the massacre as a Chinese fabrication and claimed the death toll was nearer 20,000. Several films marking the 70th anniversary are due for release this year, including one by the rightwing director Satoru Mizushima which describes the episode as a myth.
Other attempts by the Japanese right to rectify Japan's "masochistic" view of its own history have set it on a diplomatic collision course with its closest ally, the United States.
Last month a congressional committee passed a resolution calling on Japan to acknowledge and apologise for forcing an estimated 200,000 mainly Chinese and Korean women to work in frontline brothels - the so-called "comfort women". Mr Abe caused uproar when he denied the women had been coerced, and was forced to reiterate his support for an informal 1993 apology issued by the then parliament speaker.
Hiromichi Moteki, secretary-general of the rightwing Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact, denies Japan's current obsession with reinterpreting the past is politically motivated. "We are now able to look again at our history now that the facts have come to light," he said. "We have been listening to the left's fabrications for years, but now we have the truth in front of us."
The drive extends to the rehabilitation of wartime politicians closely associated with militarism. Yuko Tojo, whose grandfather, Hideki, was prime minister during the war and was hanged as a war criminal in 1948, says clearing her grandfather's name is part of a mission to restore "pride and confidence".
"There is no need to apologise to anyone - our ancestors are not guilty of the crimes of which they have been accused," said Ms Tojo, 68, who is running as an independent in elections. "If my grandfather is to be blamed for anything, it is not that he started the war but that we lost it."
Japan's defeat probably saved Mr Zukeran's life. After a week in a beach cave in June 1945, hunger triumphed over fear and his family surrendered. "We soon realised we had been lied to. The Americans were not going to kill us.
"Lots of my school friends were told to commit suicide by Japanese soldiers. At school we had been brainwashed ... [that] to surrender to [US troops] would be to disgrace the emperor," said the 75-year-old retired teacher and local councillor.
The attempt to airbrush the suicides caused outrage in Okinawa and prompted half its towns and villages to demand the references stay.
"It is an undeniable fact that mass suicides could not have occurred without the involvement of the Japanese army," the Okinawa city assembly said.
More than six decades on, Mr Zukeran is appalled at what Japan's modern-day leaders are trying to do.
"Many of my friends died because they were told to. The army never once tried to protect us. They told people to die and stole food intended for women and children. That is how war robs people of their humanity."
In the weeks after the invasion, Mr Zukeran's family walked from village to village to escape the Americans who, they had been told, would rape and kill them amid a "typhoon of steel".
Eyewitnesses claim entire families committed suicide together on the orders of fanatical Japanese soldiers rather than allow them to surrender and betray sensitive information about troop movements. Some 700 committed mass suicide in the Kerama islets off Okinawa.

[TriGirl 268]

Bob_Church

fear and his family surrendered. "We soon realised we had been lied to. The Americans were not going to kill us.
"Lots of my school friends were told to commit suicide by Japanese soldiers. At school we had been brainwashed ... [that] to surrender to [US troops] would be to disgrace the emperor," said the 75-year-old retired teacher and local councillor.

Quote

"Many of my friends died because they were told to. The army never once tried to protect us. They told people to die and stole food intended for women and children.

Yes. Because Japanese saw Okinawans as "others," just tools to be used. Not as Japanese to be protected -- just the Japanese secrets the Okinawans may have possessed.

Quote

Eyewitnesses claim entire families committed suicide together on the orders of fanatical Japanese soldiers rather than allow them to surrender and betray sensitive information about troop movements.

Yep. Again, Japanese considered them "less than," so used them and sacrificed them. The Japanese were also worried that once the Okinawan's realized that the Japanese were the monsters, the Okinawans would join the Americans and serve as a force multiplier against Japan.

I lived there, too. I know the stories. That's what I was talking about (without as much thread drift).

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[Bob_Church 7]

Now I'm seeing the answer to my question of why we look down on the Nazis as monsters, which they were, but not the Japanese Imperial Army who committed incredibly horrible atrocities during WW2. The Japanese only slaughtered people that they considered others, or worthless. But the Nazis rounded up and gassed people who, uh, wait. Shoot, I think I'm missing something here.

[jakee 1,254]

Bob_Church

Now I'm seeing the answer to my question of why we look down on the Nazis as monsters, which they were, but not the Japanese Imperial Army who committed incredibly horrible atrocities during WW2.

Umm, actually I think most people who know anything about it do look down on the Japanese Army.

Regardless - when it comes to your wider point I have already given you the answer. How much do you know about and understand German culture, and how much do you know about and understand Japanese culture? Pretty much the number one adjective associated with the Japanese is "inscrutable". That's not a coincidence.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

Shoot, I think I'm missing something here.

Yes you are. And quite deliberately so. So I will once more spell out the point I was making. The difference between the effort the Nazis made to exterminate the Jewish people and the atrocities committed by the Japanese is the motivation. Get it yet? One was an effort to win at all costs. The other was an effort to wipe out a group of people for no reason other than hate.

Are you going to still claim to be unable to see the difference?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Bob_Church 7]

gowlerk

Quote

Shoot, I think I'm missing something here.

Yes you are. And quite deliberately so. So I will once more spell out the point I was making. The difference between the effort the Nazis made to exterminate the Jewish people and the atrocities committed by the Japanese is the motivation. Get it yet? One was an effort to win at all costs. The other was an effort to wipe out a group of people for no reason other than hate.

Are you going to still claim to be unable to see the difference?

I can see the difference, but I can't understand what that has to do with what I was asking. Are we supposed to only say one group was bad? Do you think the men who were treated inhumanely and died horrible deaths building railroads for the Japanes gave a rat's ass over this word game you're playing?

[billvon 2,396]

>Now I'm seeing the answer to my question of why we look down on the Nazis as
>monsters, which they were, but not the Japanese Imperial Army who committed
>incredibly horrible atrocities during WW2.

We look down on both, of course. (Google Bataan Death March.) But as only one side engaged in a systematic, ongoing program of genocide, we tend to think of Nazis as worse.

[billvon 2,396]

>Do you think the men who were treated inhumanely and died horrible deaths building
>railroads for the Japanes gave a rat's ass over this word game you're playing?

Nope. And the 150,000+ men, women and children who were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki - most after days of acute radiation poisoning and burns - don't give a rat's ass about word games either.

There's plenty of guilt to go around after any war. (Which is why preventing them should always take the top priority.)

[Bob_Church 7]

billvon

>Now I'm seeing the answer to my question of why we look down on the Nazis as
>monsters, which they were, but not the Japanese Imperial Army who committed
>incredibly horrible atrocities during WW2.

We look down on both, of course. (Google Bataan Death March.) But as only one side engaged in a systematic, ongoing program of genocide, we tend to think of Nazis as worse.

"(Google Bataan Death March.)"
You have a strange habit, and this is hardly the first time, of calling me wrong then making my case for me. But back to my post. The article I posted was about yet another attempt by the Japanese to avoid owning up to what the did. The Germans did, yet the Japanese keep (and I know that article is old but this is still going on) trying to even have any reference removed from textbooks. They keep trying to have Tojo returned to a place of honor. That's was my point in posting it. People talk and talk about honor and yet continue to refuse to show the least bit of it. When Germany talks about putting statues of Hitler back up and removing any negative history of Nazism from their texts and people in the US don't even notice then we'll be seeing each country's war atrocities being treated equally. When we fail to even notice the crap Poland is trying to pull then I'll stop wondering.

Ok, that's it. That's all I've got. If it doesn't mean anything now then it won't mean anything if I repeat it so I won't.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

I can see the difference, but I can't understand what that has to do with what I was asking. Are we supposed to only say one group was bad?

No, but then where do you stop? What's your opinion on late 19th century Belgians, for instance? How can you justify not actively condemning them as equally as you condemn the Japanese!

The Nazis are understandable to us, and they are relevant to us. The Nazis wanted to exterminate groups of people who live among us, and wanted to promote the supremacy of people who are the majority of us. We still deal with the vestiges of that ethos in our societies today. White supremacist neo-nazis are among us. When was the last time you saw reports of Imperialist Japanese supremacist groups operating in your state?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?