Damn, now global warming has affected my listening experience.

[Stumpy 254]

turtlespeed

- I recommend the mistborn series.

Yep - I've read those already.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[CornishChris 5]

Riyria Chronicles are awesome.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[RopeaDope 0]

gowlerk

Your extremely simplified version of NOAAs report on it is incorrect and probably comes from skimming wattsupwiththat.com. It's not what NOAA said. 2014 was a very warm year overall.

Truth be told, I spent most of 2014 in Kingston, Ontario. I'm a southerner so I was amazed by the winter there. The summer of 2014 was extremely mild in southeastern Cannada and the northeastern U.S. I th out the north just sucked, but I remember everyone commenting on how unusually mild the summer was. A lot of people I worked with jokingly referred to it as the second year without a summer.

I went to Niagara Falls a couple time and was fascinated by it. It was a pretty big deal when they froze over. So in light of this thread, I googled coldest winter ever, and several search results pop up from different sources saying 2014 was in the top 3%.

Scientists can tell me the world is going to end in less than a decade, and they have, and who am I to disagree. They have there field of expertise that only they know and their super computer models and we just take them at their word. I'm saying what I observe with my two little eyes doesn't convince me. Especially when this same community told us the planet wold be uninhabitable by 2005 do to the heat, or that we would be out of oil by 2000, or that there would not be enough food to sustain the earths population by 2014.

[RopeaDope 0]

billvon

==========
Global highlights: December 2014–February 2015

During December–February, the average temperature across global land and ocean surfaces was 1.42°F (0.79°C) above the 20th century average. This was the highest for December–February in the 1880–2015 record, surpassing the previous record of 2007 by 0.05°F (0.03°C).
==========

You are pretty good at sourcing data, but this is kind of what I was getting at. They are basing their models on temperature trends from a 135 year period on a planet that is more than 4.5 billion years old. (Or at least a couple thousand years old if you believe a magical wizard floating in the clouds created it, in which case he controls the weather and not us)

[RopeaDope 0]

There are plenty of 50 meter targets to worry about right now. Nuclear Proliferation, global terrorism, over harvesting natural resources, economic instability, tracking near earth objects and researching ways to handle them. These are things mankind can effect, and threats to the future of mankind.

Global warming, solar flares, super volcanoes.....those are things that we have no control over. We are a spec in the timeline of this planet. We don't control it.

[gowlerk 1,902]

Quote

Global warming, solar flares, super volcanoes.....those are things that we have no control over. We are a spec in the timeline of this planet. We don't control it.

What we do have influence over, collectively as a civilization, is the increase in atmospheric gasses that trap heat. You may be willing to throw up your hands in surrender and say it is beyond our control, but increasingly much of the world isn't.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,380]

>So in light of this thread, I googled coldest winter ever, and several search
>results pop up from different sources saying 2014 was in the top 3%.

Right. But having New York have a cold winter isn't really a data point when it comes to what the climate of the whole planet is doing.

Weather often hits extremes. There will always be very cold and very warm days in any year, and over any area. But when the AVERAGE temperature goes up, it has some very specific effects - ice melting, forests dying, animals going extinct - that are not offset by one winter of cold in one part of the country.

>Scientists can tell me the world is going to end in less than a decade, and they have . . .

Hmm. I've never heard scientists say that. Which scientists told you that? (I've heard several religious types say that, but not scientists.)

>Especially when this same community told us the planet wold be uninhabitable
>by 2005 do to the heat

Who told you that?

[RopeaDope 0]

billvon

Hmm. I've never heard scientists say that. Which scientists told you that? (I've heard several religious types say that, but not scientists.)

>Especially when this same community told us the planet wold be uninhabitable
>by 2005 do to the heat

Who told you that?

I won't insult your intelligence by by throwing random Google searches at you to back up what I've heard. (My info is mostly a lot of random tidbits that I retain from various books, articles, and documentaries), but for entertainment purposes, here are some predictions from the experts of their fields

1. While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially I consider it an impossibility, a development of which we need waste little time dreaming. – Lee DeForest, American radio pioneer, 1926.

2. Radio has no future. – Lord Kelvin, British mathematician and physicist.

3. Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires, and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value. – Editorial in the Boston Post, 1865

4. ‘The abdomen, the chest and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon.’ – Sir John Eric Ericson, Surgeon to Queen Victoria, 1873

5. “That virus is a pussycat.” — Dr. Peter Duesberg, molecular-biology professor at U.C. Berkeley, on HIV, 1988

6. Your cigarettes will never become popular. – F. G. Alton, 1870, cigar maker, turning down Mr. John Player

7. I see no good reasons why the views given in this volume should shock the religious feelings of anyone. – Darwin (writing in Origin of Species), 1859

8. X-rays are a hoax. – Lord Kelvin (again!), ca. 1900

9. The so-called theories of Einstein are merely the ravings of a mind polluted with liberal, democratic nonsense which is utterly unacceptable to German men of science. – Dr. Walter Gross, 1940

10. “With over 50 foreign cars already on sale here, the Japanese auto industry isn’t likely to carve out a big slice of the U.S. market.” — Business Week, August 2, 1968.

11. “Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You’re crazy.” — Workers whom Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project to drill for oil in 1859.

12. “Louis Pasteur’s theory of germs is ridiculous fiction.” — Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872.

13. “Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value.” — Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre.

14. “Everything that can be invented has been invented.” — Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899

15. “Within the next few decades, autos will have folding wings that can be spread when on a straight stretch of road so that the machine can take to the air.” — Eddie Rickenbacker, ‘Popular Science,’ July 1924

[billvon 2,380]

>I won't insult your intelligence by by throwing random Google searches at you
>to back up what I've heard. (My info is mostly a lot of random tidbits that I
>retain from various books, articles, and documentaries)

Ah, that explains it; you're reading popular media. They almost always get it wrong. A perfect example is the "global cooling" scare during the 1970's. Due primarily to high altitude aerosols (a byproduct of the massive pollution seen back then) we saw several decades of cooling as sunlight to the surface was reduced. One scientist predicted that we would continue to see cooling IF levels of pollution continued to increase. (They, of course, did not.) Another report said this:

At present we are in a warm interglacial period, the duration of these in the past have averaged about 50 kyr. It is probable that the present very warm interval, which has already lasted for about 10 kyr, will eventually give way to a period of colder climate. Statistically the chances that such a transition will begin in the next 100 years mayy be placed at about 1 in 100 but the full drop of 10C or so would probably be spread over several thousand years. There is a rather higher probability that a cooling may set in but not be carried through to the full glacial conditions. The chances of a prolonged cold, but far from glacial, spell within the next century, with average temperatures lower by about 1C, such as occurred between 1500 and 1850, must be put quite high, about 1 in 5. However, there is no physical basis for predicting either the timing or magnitude of such changes because we do not yet understand the underlying causes. Likewise there is no real basis for the predictions of an imminent ice age which have largely been based on extrapolation of the 30-year trend of falling temperatures between 1940 and 1965. Apart from the strong dubiety of making a forecast from such a highly fluctuating record by extrapolation of such a short period trend, there is now evidence that the trend has been arrested."

Media types got a hold of this. And since they want to make money, they ignored the bolded part and instead reported that we were all going to die - because that sells papers. Newsweek was particularly bad. In their front-page article "The Cooling World", they claimed "ominous signs that the Earth's weather patterns have begun to change" and pointed to "a drop of half a degree in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968. . . .The evidence in support of these predictions [of global cooling] has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it.. . . "

"Scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies...The longer the planners (politicians) delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality" which included "catastrophic famines", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate," "the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age."

It took them over 30 years to apologize for that particular piece of sensationalist reporting.

That's one reason I don't heed any of the warnings/predictions from CNN, or FOX News, or the Times. Nature is a good source, as is Science, if you're interested in what scientists are actually saying.

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

"Scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies...The longer the planners (politicians) delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality" which included "catastrophic famines", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate," "the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age."

It took them over 30 years to apologize for that particular piece of sensationalist reporting.

It sounds just like what the scientists (who aren't interested in money) are telling us today about global warming.

[gowlerk 1,902]

brenthutch

***


"Scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies...The longer the planners (politicians) delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality" which included "catastrophic famines", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate," "the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age."

It took them over 30 years to apologize for that particular piece of sensationalist reporting.

It sounds just like what the scientists (who aren't interested in money) are telling us today about global warming.


Dude.....You really don't pay attention do you? The quote and the error from 30 years ago was the popular media sensationalizing a story. The current well observed, proven trend in temperature rise, that has global leaders meeting regularly to begin to deal with is settled science.

Only the politics of what should be done is unsettled. Make an effort to catch up please.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[brenthutch 383]

You say with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

[turtlespeed 212]

brenthutch

You say with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

No. He really believes that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[brenthutch 383]

turtlespeed

***You say with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

No. He really believes that.

Face palm

[turtlespeed 212]

brenthutch

******You say with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

No. He really believes that.

Face palm

I know - RIGHT!?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,380]

>It sounds just like what the scientists (who aren't interested in money) are
>telling us today about global warming.

I'd try Science or Nature instead of FOX News and Breitbart, if I were you. You would hear a very different story.

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

>It sounds just like what the scientists (who aren't interested in money) are
>telling us today about global warming.

I'd try Science or Nature instead of FOX News and Breitbart, if I were you. You would hear a very different story.

""catastrophic famines", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate"

The global cooling hyperbole, quoted above, sounds much like the current global warming hyperbole. It is amusing that the irony escapes you.

[turtlespeed 212]

brenthutch

***>It sounds just like what the scientists (who aren't interested in money) are
>telling us today about global warming.

I'd try Science or Nature instead of FOX News and Breitbart, if I were you. You would hear a very different story.

""catastrophic famines", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate"

The global cooling hyperbole, quoted above, sounds much like the current global warming hyperbole. It is amusing that the irony escapes you.

Oh - Puleeze - really?

Why does that surprise you?

Wait - you said amuse . . . So you aren't surprised. OK.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,380]

Quote

""catastrophic famines", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate"

The global cooling hyperbole, quoted above, sounds much like the current global warming hyperbole. It is amusing that the irony escapes you.

Again, try sources other than FOX News or Breitbart.

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

Quote

""catastrophic famines", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate"

The global cooling hyperbole, quoted above, sounds much like the current global warming hyperbole. It is amusing that the irony escapes you.

Again, try sources other than FOX News or Breitbart.

Swing and a miss, MSNBC in the morning and NPR in the afternoon.

[brenthutch 383]

billvon

Quote

""catastrophic famines", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate"

The global cooling hyperbole, quoted above, sounds much like the current global warming hyperbole. It is amusing that the irony escapes you.

Again, try sources other than FOX News or Breitbart.

This comes right from the climate scientists at the IPCC:

"The planet is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Old Testament, Real wrath-of-God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!"

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

brenthutch

This comes right from the climate scientists at the IPCC:

"The planet is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Old Testament, Real wrath-of-God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!"

Well, it actually came from 2 guys, one of whom was not a scientist, just a guy hired to help out.
Whether or not Venkman was a scientist is debatable (I tend towards "not").

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[turtlespeed 212]

wolfriverjoe

***
This comes right from the climate scientists at the IPCC:

"The planet is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Old Testament, Real wrath-of-God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!"

Well, it actually came from 2 guys, one of whom was not a scientist, just a guy hired to help out.
Whether or not Venkman was a scientist is debatable (I tend towards "not").

Peter is a good guy and especially when he's been slimed.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[brenthutch 383]

I think BillV just got slimed

[billvon 2,380]

>Swing and a miss, MSNBC in the morning and NPR in the afternoon.

MSNBC may have fed you that, but I've never heard anything like that on NPR. I think you are making things up again. (Or you are listening to Breitbart.)

Your claim that all those things are ridiculous are precisely the point. Scientists did not say that the Earth was headed towards "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons" - a journalist did. Just as today scientists are not saying we are all going to die tomorrow - journalists are saying that.

When you are at the DZ, do you get skydiving advice from the reporters who came there to cover the latest fatality? Or the S+TA, the DZO, the chief instructor and the 4-way team that's consistently getting into the top 5 in open class? You might prefer the reporters; they're a lot more exciting. But the experts would really be a better source.