Planned Parenthood and the legal slope.

[normiss 622]

I find it interesting and somewhat discomforting that so many right wing MEN are so upset and angry that a woman can get a procedure done on her body of her own free will.
What the fuck is wrong with angry white men?????

They're starting to look rather foolish. Stupid even.

[rushmc 18]

gowlerk

Quote

And they KNOW they can not win that argument

If you believe in the Constitution and the rule of law, they clearly have already won the argument. If you believe the rule of the church should prevail over the law of man, there are other countries you can live in. Saudi Arabia comes to mind.

The stuff you guys can dream up

You seem to forget the reason those who started this country came here for. To get away from the rule of the church
I have not forgotten this

And your points (such as they are) help to prove my point

Please, carry on

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

Spoken like a true anti-constitutionalist, and if not that, like Rush Limbaugh when he said he'd move to Costa Rica.

Yeah, I equate the two of you.

Opposite sides of the same coin.

I'm happy to be on the opposite of the Rush coin. Thanks. But do you disagree with what I said? Or do you just not like that I said it?

My point was that a woman's right to an abortion is settled law in the US. Same as in Canada, and most civilized countries at are not unduly influenced by churches.

If people want to change this fact they need to work within the law of man. Claiming God is on their side won't help them.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

I find it interesting and somewhat discomforting that so many right wing MEN are so upset and angry that a woman can get a procedure done on her body of her own free will.
What the fuck is wrong with angry white men?????

The majority of people in these pictures are women - I think I even seen a few black men.

https://www.google.com/search?q=abortion+protest&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUgqrT2sfKAhWILSYKHRjkBxsQ_AUIBygB&biw=1097&bih=478#tbm=isch&q=pro+life+protest

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[turtlespeed 212]

gowlerk

Quote

Spoken like a true anti-constitutionalist, and if not that, like Rush Limbaugh when he said he'd move to Costa Rica.

Yeah, I equate the two of you.

Opposite sides of the same coin.

I'm happy to be on the opposite of the Rush coin. Thanks. But do you disagree with what I said? Or do you just not like that I said it?

My point was that a woman's right to an abortion is settled law in the US. Same as in Canada, and most civilized countries at are not unduly influenced by churches.

If people want to change this fact they need to work within the law of man. Claiming God is on their side won't help them.

>>>If you believe in the Constitution and the rule of law, they clearly have already won >>>the argument.
Just because it is law, doesn't make it right.
For instance, did you know women in florida are not allowed to skydive on Sunday?

>>>If you believe the rule of the church should prevail over the law of man, there are >>>other countries you can live in. Saudi Arabia comes to mind.
Ridiculous and ignorant statement.
I really thought better of you.

It takes someone very polarized, and close minded to only believe people of the church believe it wrong to snuff out human life.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

Eye for an eye and all that.

[DanG 1]

Quote

For instance, did you know women in florida are not allowed to skydive on Sunday?

For instance, did you know that is an urban myth?

- Dan G

[normiss 622]

I believe it is still on the books, clearly unenforced, but it's there.
Just don't get caught wearing a strapless gown in public here.

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

TK and others need to frame the topic as a health care issue, which it is not, or they have no point. The other twist after this is a woman's right to choose.

No, this is about how a society views life and responsibility for ones actions. And they KNOW they can not win that argument

What I said was in reply to this, which was written by Rushmc. To me it is not primarily a health care issue, it is a rights issue. Specifically a woman's rights issue.

Society is ruled by law, and the law allows women the right to an abortion. That argument has been settled at the highest level of man's law. There are countries that prefer God's law over man's law. But in places where man's law prevails, generally women are allowed abortions. The exceptions are all places where the Catholic Church or Muslim teachings exert a large influence over law.

Other people can and do oppose abortion rights outside of religious reasons, that is true. But they would seem to have lost that battle everywhere in the world except in these religious based places. I suppose that is because the rights of women to a choice have been judged as more important than protecting these people from being offended by abortions.

And THAT is the argument that Rushmc thinks TK can't win, but is actually already won.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rushmc 18]

gowlerk

And THAT is the argument that Rushmc thinks TK can't win, but is actually already won.

Legally sure

Socially? Not even close

And it is NOT a rights issue
Again
Another construct to frame the topic as something other than it is

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

And it is NOT a rights issue
Again
Another construct to frame the topic as something other than it is

It was fought in the courts as a rights issue. By people dedicated to woman's rights. SCOTUS agrees that it is a rights issue. Even those who disagree want to frame it as a "fetal rights issue". You are the one trying to re-frame it on terms more favorable to your viewpoint. It most certainly is a rights issue at it's heart.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

I know that it's true because I made it up myself.

How fitting..........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi rush,

Quote

TK and others need to frame the topic as a health care issue, which it is not

When I was a teenager back in the 1950's, that would be somewhat correct.

Do you ever consider actually living in the 21st century?

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 1,910]

rushmc

Quote

I know that it's true because I made it up myself.

How fitting..........

Thank you.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Darius11 12]

normiss

I find it interesting and somewhat discomforting that so many right wing MEN are so upset and angry that a woman can get a procedure done on her body of her own free will.
What the fuck is wrong with angry white men?????

They're starting to look rather foolish. Stupid even.

I think its really stupid to segregate decision making that effects two people based on sex. I also think anyone who says they know they are not killing a life or that they are!! is full of shit.

No one knows for sure. take religion out of it, what makes it ok to kill a 3 month fetus and not a one month old infant?
I get that you have your opinion but there is no concert way make an actual difference that based in science. Unless you choose a certain area of development as the point where YOU believe the cells are a humane life.

I am pro choice not because i think oh its great and i am sure, its because i don't know and i have a cock. So i think the woman has the right and burden of making that decision. Understand i am not saying her decision is right i am saying its not for me to decide, at the same time i think its fuck up that her decision regardless of what was agreed upon between US can effect my life hugely. I don't think that's fair but that's one thing everyone needs to get, life is not fair and some shit you just have to deal with.

I truly think any other position until we know more about what makes a humane humane is just bull shit. No one knows for sure.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[billvon 2,396]

>Legally sure
>Socially? Not even close

That's fine. You can believe whatever you want in the privacy of your own home, as long as you don't try to impose your rights on others.

>And it is NOT a rights issue

Of course it is. Pro-life people want to take the right to get an abortion away from women.

[tkhayes 125]

Quote

TK and others need to frame the topic as a health care issue, which it is not, or they have no point. The other twist after this is a woman's right to choose.

There is no twist. This is a health care issue because it is performed by doctors and practitioners and clinics. It is a women's rights issue because the Supreme Court says it is.

By the way....women's rights is not a 'twist', nor have I ever framed it as anything other than women's rights and/or healthcare, unless of course you would like to bring up all the posts where I contradicted myself. I have been consistent since day one.

And it is not a 'twist' unless you have some 'twisted' view of what the Supreme Court actually does.....

I wonder if you would support my 'saving of innocent lives' when I speak about gun control..... or are gun rights some sort of 'twist' as well?

[rushmc 18]

An abortion is legal and it not a right

Health care is not a right

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 125]

perhaps you should read the determinations and rulings from Roe v Wade.

'woman's right' used many times and fetal 'right to life' also rejected. it's actually written in words. on paper, and judged as so.

from the Supreme Court.

You know - those people that determine 'rights' in this country, regardless of your opinion.....?

[normiss 622]

We have no need for factual conversation here sir.

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

An abortion is legal and it not a right

The Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion.

The reason it is legal is not because of any law. It is legal because it is a right.

However, you are correct about heathcare. That is not a right in the USA.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rehmwa 2]

Just a personal opinion - rights are things we should expect to be able to do/be/have/etc independently. things that anyone should be able to do

rights are not things that require taking from others to achieve (the difference between rights, and the entitlements that FDR tried to pawn off as rights)

so - the right to seek out and get an abortion? absolutely (just like the right go and contract/negotiate for any product or service from another free person) (this is consistent enough with the court's ruling, whether it falls under privacy, self determination, or whatever)

if it crosses the line where it forces someone else to pay for it, or forces/conscripts the doctor to do it for you? not a right


the right fails to acknowledge the first point, the left - the 2nd point

her choice - her responsibility absolutely. another's personal opinions on it (for or against) are moot. Only hers matter.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[winsor 186]

normiss

I find it interesting and somewhat discomforting that so many right wing MEN are so upset and angry that a woman can get a procedure done on her body of her own free will.
What the fuck is wrong with angry white men?????

They're starting to look rather foolish. Stupid even.

If I get pregnant, I will definitely not go to term.

[rushmc 18]

Just for the record

Quote

According to The New York Times, “The record-tampering charges accused Mr. Daleiden and Ms. Merritt of making and presenting fake California driver’s licenses, with the intent to defraud, for their April meeting at Planned Parenthood in Houston.” But Mr. Daleiden also faces the possibility of prison for supposedly indulging in the very thing his videos were intended to stop: for-profit fetal harvesting. Daleiden responded to the news by observing, “We respect the processes of the Harris County district attorney, and note that buying fetal tissue requires a seller as well.” Indeed, Planned Parenthood officials were discussing ways to spend their newfound wealth after the fetal parts were auctioned off. Perhaps that part was edited out from the grand jury investigation.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

>Daleiden responded to the news by observing, “We respect the processes of
>the Harris County district attorney, and note that buying fetal tissue requires a
>seller as well.”

It does indeed. One wonders where these indicted criminals went after Planned Parenthood refused to sell the tissue to them.