SkyDekker 1,326 #226 February 26, 2016 Sure. His answer was a weasel out of the subject, that coal is far from clean. That's what my question had to do with his post. Unfortunately his answer is rather silly, basically saying that every group has people dying young. Basically once again not addressing the issue at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #227 February 26, 2016 SkyDekkerSure. His answer was a weasel out of the subject, that coal is far from clean. That's what my question had to do with his post. Unfortunately his answer is rather silly, basically saying that every group has people dying young. Basically once again not addressing the issue at all. I saw that - it wasn't a truthful answer in the spirit of the question.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #228 February 27, 2016 billvon>You will pay your fair share soon. As will your industry - as the external costs of coal start to be factored in to the cost of coal power. And coal will probably not survive in a truly fair market. Apples and oranges You are getting your free stuff now soon to change"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,326 #229 February 27, 2016 rushmc***>You will pay your fair share soon. As will your industry - as the external costs of coal start to be factored in to the cost of coal power. And coal will probably not survive in a truly fair market. Apples and oranges You are getting your free stuff now soon to change He has for decades. Who do you think has funded all those coal subsidies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #230 February 27, 2016 SkyDekker******>You will pay your fair share soon. As will your industry - as the external costs of coal start to be factored in to the cost of coal power. And coal will probably not survive in a truly fair market. Apples and oranges You are getting your free stuff now soon to change He has for decades. Who do you think has funded all those coal subsidies? Ya. He likes he free stuff Time to change And i am against ALL gov sibidies. Always have been"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 330 #231 February 27, 2016 rushmc And i am against ALL gov sibidies. Always have been I'm in favor of some, when they can kick-start something that is possibly beneficial. Once things become a large enough business, they need to live or die on their own. I'm also against pretty much all IRS Schedule A deductions (at least those related to mortgage interest and charity), which I see as other forms of subsidy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,120 #232 February 27, 2016 QuoteAnd i am against ALL gov sibidies. Always have been http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Federal_coal_subsidies http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/16/us-australian-taxpayers-pay-billions-fund-coal http://www.carbontracker.org/report/coal-subsidies/ None of these sources is impartial, they all have an agenda. But they all make a good case that fossil fuel production has long been and continues to be, subsidized. One man's subsidy is another man's incentive plan.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 330 #233 February 28, 2016 gowlerk One man's subsidy is another man's incentive plan. I take rushmc at his word that he is against all subsidies. I am against mortgage interest and charitable contributions being tax deductible, but I'm going to deduct them as long as the deductions are available to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,326 #234 February 28, 2016 rushmc*********>You will pay your fair share soon. As will your industry - as the external costs of coal start to be factored in to the cost of coal power. And coal will probably not survive in a truly fair market. Apples and oranges You are getting your free stuff now soon to change He has for decades. Who do you think has funded all those coal subsidies? Ya. He likes he free stuff Time to change And i am against ALL gov sibidies. Always have been Yeah, I meant he has been paying for decades. Taxpayers have funded those subsidies your company has been getting over the decades. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,789 #235 February 28, 2016 >You are getting your free stuff now "Providing power to other people" = "getting free stuff" I guess that's some kind of right wing logic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,789 #236 February 28, 2016 >And i am against ALL gov sibidies. Always have been And yet are perfectly willing to take advantage of them when they support your employer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #237 February 29, 2016 billvon>You are getting your free stuff now "Providing power to other people" = "getting free stuff" I guess that's some kind of right wing logic. Got nothing to do with the power you generate. I have posted this before"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #238 February 29, 2016 billvon>And i am against ALL gov sibidies. Always have been And yet are perfectly willing to take advantage of them when they support your employer. I am willing but i really dont know what the company i work for gets You on the otherhand ars susidised. That will go away soon enough"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,789 #239 February 29, 2016 >You on the otherhand ars susidised. If "susidised" means "subsidized" then that must be right-wing logic again, since I generate all my own power and still pay a monthly bill for the "right" to connect to the grid. By that logic, you are even more heavily subsidized than I am, since someone else provides all your power. Nice subsidy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,875 #240 February 29, 2016 billvon>You on the otherhand ars susidised. If "susidised" means "subsidized" then that must be right-wing logic again, since I generate all my own power and still pay a monthly bill for the "right" to connect to the grid. By that logic, you are even more heavily subsidized than I am, since someone else provides all your power. Nice subsidy. It's that Looking Glass thing. They're making movie about it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 736 #241 February 29, 2016 Pat Robertson blames gays. Well, god actually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #242 February 29, 2016 billvon>You on the otherhand ars susidised. If "susidised" means "subsidized" then that must be right-wing logic again, since I generate all my own power and still pay a monthly bill for the "right" to connect to the grid. By that logic, you are even more heavily subsidized than I am, since someone else provides all your power. Nice subsidy. It is looking like it will go the following way in most states (I know do not get it) Your meter will be changed to more of a commercial meter. That meter will record not only usage but demand. At this point on a per month basis you monthly billing will be based demand. Demand billing looks at the peak usage you have had in a month (not kilowatt hours usage) Since you do not use any net kilowatts in a month you currently are charged only the connect fee. That change will look at what size service is required to cover your highest demand usage. There is a flat fee based on demand reading and your monthly bill will be adjusted to covered the maintenance for your service size. No more free ride for you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #243 February 29, 2016 kallend ***>You on the otherhand ars susidised. If "susidised" means "subsidized" then that must be right-wing logic again, since I generate all my own power and still pay a monthly bill for the "right" to connect to the grid. By that logic, you are even more heavily subsidized than I am, since someone else provides all your power. Nice subsidy. It's that Looking Glass thing. They're making movie about it. I know YOU don't get it"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 736 #244 February 29, 2016 Anyone have the Rushtranslator© handy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #245 February 29, 2016 normiss Anyone have the Rushtranslator© handy? I know It is over your headI do not think I can dumb it down any further for you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,789 #246 February 29, 2016 >Your meter will be changed to more of a commercial meter. That meter will >record not only usage but demand. Mine already does. >That change will look at what size service is required to cover your highest >demand usage. Cool; my bill will go down! (Since we moved in we've replaced a lot of the energy hogs; I don't need that 200 amp service any more.) >No more free ride for you If what you are saying is accurate, sounds like my bills will go down. (Of course, I'll still pay for monthly service.) In the future look for real time pricing to come along. This is the fairest possible way to do it from a capitalistic perspective. You pay the price per kwhr set by the demand for that hour. (And if the price is negative, then you get the advantages of that as well.) If you generate, you get paid whatever the utility is paying to the rest of their generators for that hour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #247 February 29, 2016 billvon>Your meter will be changed to more of a commercial meter. That meter will >record not only usage but demand. Mine already does. >That change will look at what size service is required to cover your highest >demand usage. Cool; my bill will go down! (Since we moved in we've replaced a lot of the energy hogs; I don't need that 200 amp service any more.) >No more free ride for you If what you are saying is accurate, sounds like my bills will go down. (Of course, I'll still pay for monthly service.) In the future look for real time pricing to come along. This is the fairest possible way to do it from a capitalistic perspective. You pay the price per kwhr set by the demand for that hour. (And if the price is negative, then you get the advantages of that as well.) If you generate, you get paid whatever the utility is paying to the rest of their generators for that hour. Actually I think you should get paid for the kwh you put back on the grid Of course it should not be at a retail price but rather a price the utility can normally make or buy it for As for you bill this are minimum service sizes based on your connected load and usually (in most cases) a 200 amp load center is the smallest allowed. NESC drives this in many cases along with state requirements which tend to go above and beyond the NESC. And if you think your bill will go down? Good luck with that."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,789 #248 February 29, 2016 >And if you think your bill will go down? No, I don't. I thought your explanation was incorrect, and it will actually stay the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #249 February 29, 2016 billvon>And if you think your bill will go down? No, I don't. I thought your explanation was incorrect, and it will actually stay the same. It is going to go up It has too unless you want the grid to go away this is a big big issue in the industry and it is just starting to show itself nation wide Where distributive generation is more dense is where it will show first The utility HAS to be able to cover the costs of maintaining that grid The set up you have right now puts no dollars in the utility coffers to cover that maintenance It is that simple"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 736 #250 February 29, 2016 Given the way you wrote it, I would have to agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites