The Muslim rape of Germany

[Stumpy 256]

RonD1120

******not sure if there are any unbiased news sources anymore

If you can find one that isn't paid by groups of people with interests in anything, there may be.

Anyone that advertises, or donates, or has any payment agreement with the source can include over site in their contract agreements.

FYI: Blaze TV is funded by the viewers and small companies for the most part.

[straightface]That must be why it's one of the most objective and unbiased sources out there.[/straightface]

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

jakee

... Heck, I'd be amazed if there wasn't a wave of rapes and sexual assaults in relatively small scale civil disturbances like the Watts riots...


...Until then, and given the impact of centuries of global terror from the West that has greatly contributed to putting these African and Middle Eastern countries into the state they're in now if any Muslims (and anyone else) want to escape from them then I think we damn well owe them our help.

(First Part) During Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, the "Superdome" stadium was used as a shelter. There were numerous accusations of assaults (sexual and other) during the chaos.

(second part) Absolutely.

(overall) It wasn't too long ago in the US (like maybe 60 or 70 years) that women were treated in a very similar way here in the US.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[TriGirl 268]

Rick

thanks and for this:
***
Until then, and given the impact of centuries of global terror from the West that has greatly contributed to putting these African and Middle Eastern countries into the state they're in now if any Muslims (and anyone else) want to escape from them then I think we damn well owe them our help.

I have never looked at it from this perspective and I have to agree.

I've been trying to find the news pieces I heard on NPR, to find the country that is holding culture classes for the refugees they're taking in. They're sitting these folks down and explaining what behavior is acceptable and what is not, in particular when it comes to the interactions between men and women in that country. They're also providing language lessons, escorted (read: assisted) trips to markets, covering rules of driving, and various other things.

I've also heard reporting on communities here in the US doing that same thing. It's like a refugee sponsorship. Taking people into their homes at first, then helping them find housing, navigate the city, get their kids into schools -- basically a one-on-one to help them get settled and feel comfortable in their new homes. Very simple ways to get newcomers to join the community, instead of all but forcing the formation of refugee cities.

Of course, this can all only be done on the smaller scales that the US and some smaller countries are taking in refugees. While I appreciate the good intent of taking in more than a million refugees, I think we all have seen some of the unintended consequences of some of these details falling to the wayside.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[masterblaster72 0]

jakee

Reducing the number of backwards thinking Muslims here in the west will come from (IMO) integration and education of communities

Great intention there. However, that comes with the assumption that the immigrants want to be integrated. Integration means actually changing parts of ones mentality and behavior -- such as letting a daughter date/marry a non-Muslim and letting her choose not to wear a hijab/niqab or even adhere to Islam if she doesn't want to. I doubt that even a minority of migrants to Western Europe from the middle east are open to such ideas.
The burden of reducing the number of backwards thinking Muslims can't be entirely on western governments; it's a two-way street.

Quote

Reducing the number of backwards thinking Muslims in other parts of the world will mostly come with economic and political development, if that can happen.

As long as people from these parts of the world insist on hating each other over the tiniest of differences in their tribes/languages/religious beliefs, there will never be economic or political development. The west cannot indefinitely bear the burden for the consequences of this problem.

Quote

Until then, and given the impact of centuries of global terror from the West that has greatly contributed to putting these African and Middle Eastern countries into the state they're in now if any Muslims (and anyone else) want to escape from them then I think we damn well owe them our help.

Large western European countries with former empires? Maybe. However I don't think countries like Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, Norway, Finland, any eastern European or Balkan countries terrorized Africa or the Middle East in the last few centuries.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[billvon 2,381]

masterblaster72

***
Reducing the number of backwards thinking Muslims here in the west will come from (IMO) integration and education of communities

Great intention there. However, that comes with the assumption that the immigrants want to be integrated. Integration means actually changing parts of ones mentality and behavior -- such as letting a daughter date/marry a non-Muslim and letting her choose not to wear a hijab/niqab or even adhere to Islam if she doesn't want to. I doubt that even a minority of migrants to Western Europe from the middle east are open to such ideas.
That is likely more accurately stated as "I doubt that even a minority of migrants are open to such ideas." It often takes a generation or two for such changes, whether the migrants are from Europe, the Middle East, Russia or the US.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

However, that comes with the assumption that the immigrants want to be integrated.

Sure. And there will be those that will never change until they die. Sooner or later though, they will die. Sic transit assholes, right? I don't see the benefit in giving up on anything that can't be done overnight.

Quote

As long as people from these parts of the world insist on hating each other over the tiniest of differences in their tribes/languages/religious beliefs, there will never be economic or political development.

And is there any reason why you think that can't ever change?

Quote

The west cannot indefinitely bear the burden for the consequences of this problem.

OK. But let's try it for a while and see where it gets us.

Quote

However I don't think countries like Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, Norway, Finland, any eastern European or Balkan countries terrorized Africa or the Middle East in the last few centuries.

OK. So they can help because they want to.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Phil1111 908]

Rick

regardless of the source I think this shows a basic difference in the clashing cultures.

I thought that we realized a long time ago even if a woman dresses provocatively they are not asking to be molested. Here is a religious leader blaming the victim(s).

He (the Imam) is a "Salafist". Enough said.

Its sort of like Trump quoting scripture.
Proverbs 16:5
'Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished."

Someday, ...perhaps... a atheist will be nominated by the Republican party. I'll be long dead by then.

[ibx 2]

Quote

That is likely more accurately stated as "I doubt that even a minority of migrants are open to such ideas." It often takes a generation or two for such changes, whether the migrants are from Europe, the Middle East, Russia or the US.

That is true... In the early 90s Germany had about 800.000 immigrants from the former soviet countries. It took quite exactly 20 years for them to not be an outlier in the criminal statistics anymore. So yeah 1 generation.

[Rick 67]

I would imagine there were similar issues with every wave of immigrants coming to the U.S. The older generation trying to hold on to their culture and the newer generation slowly assimilating to a different way of life.

I like the idea of classes and sponsors that Tri Girl talked about up thread. I think maybe if we also took some time to learn about the culture of the immigrants we might be a little more understanding of their situation.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

My point is that you consider the people that make those claims to be nut jobs that don't represent average Christians.

If one has already convinced themselves all Muslims are evil, then the comment of a single muslim can easily represent all muslims.

[ibx 2]

Quote

I would imagine there were similar issues with every wave of immigrants coming to the U.S. The older generation trying to hold on to their culture and the newer generation slowly assimilating to a different way of life.

I think there is a fundamental difference between immigration into US and Germany.

Immigrants into the US usually come to the US and embrace it's values. The pursuit of happiness and so on. Immigrants are expected and pretty much forced to assimilate into American culture or perish. They are also in the US to stay.

The majority of immigrants in Germany for many years where actually the so called Gastarbeiter, which means guest workers, these where first italians, then turks. They where never expected to really integrate because they where here for work. Many of them also retire back home after working here for 40 years. So the whole multi cultural ideology was born and has failed miserably. So we now have 3rd generation turks, which feel they are neither real Germans nor Turks and have created there own subculture with there own vernacular and so on.

One reason for this is, that Germany has always feared the debate about what it means to be German, due to the Nazi ballast... But this is a really hard and long discussion which has going on in Germany for many years and has now flamed up again due to the asylum crisis.

[Rick 67]

ibx

[
I think there is a fundamental difference between immigration into US and Germany.

Immigrants into the US usually come to the US and embrace it's values. The pursuit of happiness and so on. Immigrants are expected and pretty much forced to assimilate into American culture or perish. They are also in the US to stay.

The majority of immigrants in Germany for many years where actually the so called Gastarbeiter, which means guest workers, these where first italians, then turks. They where never expected to really integrate because they where here for work. Many of them also retire back home after working here for 40 years. So the whole multi cultural ideology was born and has failed miserably. So we now have 3rd generation turks, which feel they are neither real Germans nor Turks and have created there own subculture with there own vernacular and so on.

One reason for this is, that Germany has always feared the debate about what it means to be German, due to the Nazi ballast... But this is a really hard and long discussion which has going on in Germany for many years and has now flamed up again due to the asylum crisis.

So you can't really point to Germany and say "look what's going to happen in the U.S. if we let all these refugees in." It is a totally different situation here. Albeit with a different set of problems/challenges with integration.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[rehmwa 2]

ibx

Immigrants into the US usually come to the US and embrace it's values. The pursuit of happiness and so on. Immigrants are expected and pretty much forced to assimilate into American culture or perish.

sure, you betcha

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[masterblaster72 0]

Quote

Quote

The west cannot indefinitely bear the burden for the consequences of this problem.

OK. But let's try it for a while and see where it gets us.

How many more gang gropings and massacres a la Paris would you be willing to risk to prove to the world how tolerant you are? At some point, the host countries need to look after their own interests -- which is actually in the interest of the migrants they've taken in.

Quote

Quote

However I don't think countries like Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, Norway, Finland, any eastern European or Balkan countries terrorized Africa or the Middle East in the last few centuries.

OK. So they can help because they want to.

Denmark doesn't really want to anymore, Sweden will soon close its borders, Norway is shipping migrants back across the Russian border, and Balkan countries are building fences. In Germany, Merkel is facing pressure to put a lid on the influx. Not too many left that want to at this point...

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[jgoose71 0]

SkyDekker

Quote

My point is that you consider the people that make those claims to be nut jobs that don't represent average Christians.

If one has already convinced themselves all Muslims are evil, then the comment of a single muslim can easily represent all muslims.

What about those of us that believe that there are Muslims that believe in personal freedom and Muslims that believe in Sharia?

I've met both and that is how I characterize them. One fits into multiculturalism, one does not.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 2,381]

>What about those of us that believe that there are Muslims that believe in
>personal freedom and Muslims that believe in Sharia?

>I've met both and that is how I characterize them. One fits into multiculturalism,
>one does not.

They both fit into muliculturalism. Multiculturalism is merely acceptance of a lot of cultures within one area (one country, one state etc)

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

How many more gang gropings and massacres a la Paris would you be willing to risk to prove to the world how tolerant you are? At some point, the host countries need to look after their own interests -- which is actually in the interest of the migrants they've taken in.

Paris massacres? Almost every perpetrator of the Paris attacks was French or Belgian. So what is it you suggest they do in order not to 'risk' another Paris attack? Should France deport all their Muslim citizens or should they lock them up because if you want to keep up with your current rhetoric those are pretty much the only two options you've left yourself.

What is it about xenophobia that turns off the reality switch in otherwise rational people?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jgoose71 0]

normiss

As well as emotionally escalating the situation by using the wrong wording.
A simple theft would not result in a charge of murder, but they keep throwing out words that do not apply to the assaults.
Then, chose to use a scary word to equate them to terrorists.

It's like reading a Fox news feed.

Politicians and the press are doing there best to bury the issue to make it not sound as bad as it is, but every now and then if you dig you do find that rapes have occurred, despite the best efforts to hide it.

But hey, I like your take: "Fisting is not rape!!!"

That can be the lefts new battle cry on the issue....

Mean while with 1.1 million non-multicultual accepting muslims running around Germany, I'm afraid the country has already fundamentally changed. Women are warned not to wear short skirts, heels and perfume, travel with friends and keep an arms length away from men. If they get attacked it's their fault.

But on the bright side, they did launch a new poster campaign!

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/germany-initiates-poster-campaign-to-fight-groping-rape-and-public-pooping/

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

billvon

>What about those of us that believe that there are Muslims that believe in
>personal freedom and Muslims that believe in Sharia?

>I've met both and that is how I characterize them. One fits into multiculturalism,
>one does not.

They both fit into muliculturalism. Multiculturalism is merely acceptance of a lot of cultures within one area (one country, one state etc)

So are you saying we should be tolerant of their non-tolernace? Or do you just not know the tenets of sharia law?

Or are you saying that they are allowed to grope our women and we have to just accept it?

Just to be clear, Sharia law is not tolerant and does not respect personal freedom. If you accept a lack of tolerance and respect for personal freedom in your multicultural society, it will fail.

Or worse, the tolerant will be subjugated.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[masterblaster72 0]

jakee

Quote

How many more gang gropings and massacres a la Paris would you be willing to risk to prove to the world how tolerant you are? At some point, the host countries need to look after their own interests -- which is actually in the interest of the migrants they've taken in.

Paris massacres? Almost every perpetrator of the Paris attacks was French or Belgian.

What is it about xenophobia that turns off the reality switch in otherwise rational people?

Yes, all named attackers were already living in Europe. I raised the Paris massacres in the context of at least one attacker entering through Greece as a "refugee" -- not in the context of Muslims already living in Europe. Here's background if you haven't already read about the migrant attacker identified by fingerprint.

I'm an immigrant to two countries in my lifetime, and my parents have immigrated to four in theirs. I believe in respecting the laws and customs of my host countries without expecting my host countries to change according to what I believe. If you want to call me xenophobic to avoid answering the question, that's your choice. But I'll ask again.

How many more mass gropings and terrorist attacks would you be willing to accept to show the world how tolerant you are?

Quote

So what is it you suggest they do in order not to 'risk' another Paris attack?

For starters, let's know who we're taking into our countries and verify identities. If we can't (and we haven't -- for tens and possibly hundreds of thousands) -- then turn people back to where they came from. Allowing an ocean of people to cross borders unhindered from places where terrorist groups thrive (Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq) is a very serious risk that needs to be addressed immediately. Call it "fear," call it "xenophobia" if you like; I prefer to think of it as common sense.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

Quote

How many more gang gropings and massacres a la Paris would you be willing to risk to prove to the world how tolerant you are? At some point, the host countries need to look after their own interests -- which is actually in the interest of the migrants they've taken in.

Paris massacres? Almost every perpetrator of the Paris attacks was French or Belgian. So what is it you suggest they do in order not to 'risk' another Paris attack? Should France deport all their Muslim citizens or should they lock them up because if you want to keep up with your current rhetoric those are pretty much the only two options you've left yourself.

What is it about xenophobia that turns off the reality switch in otherwise rational people?

So what is your solution for making Germany safe from these kinds of behavior.

It appears that you just accept the molestation,mans sexual abuse as the cost of doing business with the refugees.

I'd be willing to bet my salary that the great majority of the women the attacks happened to don't see it your way.

So do you think it is justifiable that a country change how it dresses and acts because a bunch of religious people were let into their country? Should the blame be placed on the women that dress like free women?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,381]

No jokes about rape. Your one warning.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Yes, all named attackers were already living in Europe.

Living in Europe - from Europe. What do you propose to do about it?

Quote

How many more mass gropings and terrorist attacks would you be willing to accept to show the world how tolerant you are?

Are you willing to accept more Paris massacres or are you going to deport or detain the millions of muslims already living in Europe?

You're going to need to answer that question because here's the thing - I don't think that eliminating the risk of more Paris style massacres is really that high up your list of priorities. I think you realise that there are a lot of things in our society that are more important. And anyway, you won't eliminate the risk by closing the borders anyway. So you can let in refugees and risk more Paris massacres, or you can close the borders to refugees... and risk more Paris massacres.

Quote

For starters, let's know who we're taking into our countries and verify identities. If we can't (and we haven't -- for tens and possibly hundreds of thousands) -- then turn people back to where they came from.

Ok, so you've done that. Then there's another mass shooting by homegrown terrorists. What do you do?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jgoose71 0]

billvon

No jokes about rape. Your one warning.

The joke was to point out how absurd the idea that what was done to those women was any less than rape. Where is the outrage in that?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

So what is your solution for making Germany safe from these kinds of behavior.

I wrote a pretty substantial post a few pages back.

Quote

It appears that you just accept the molestation,mans sexual abuse as the cost of doing business with the refugees.

Versus the extra lives at stake on top of the 100k+ civilian murders in Syria since the fighting started? Yeah where does the balance fall on those scales?

BTW, you remember that the German government admitted serious failings in the policing of those public squares on new years, right? The situation isn't binary, yeah? It's not 'more of the same' vs 'ban all refugees'. There is also the option of 'take in refugees, but improve the way you manage them'.

Quote

I'd be willing to bet my salary that the great majority of the women the attacks happened to don't see it your way.

And the women, children and men seeing their towns and cities destroyed in Syria probably don't see it your way.

Quote

So do you think it is justifiable that a country change how it dresses and acts because a bunch of religious people were let into their country? Should the blame be placed on the women that dress like free women?

I'm not going to dignify that strawman bullshit with an answer.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?