DanG 1 #26 January 19, 2016 QuoteI'm on the other end. You are cleared until proven you aren't. no expiration. No regular or periodic fees, etc to keep your right. If the period is short, then it becomes a de facto intent to buy a firearm every time you renew or reapply, not a validation that you are responsible to exercise your rights as you see fit. If the card doesn't have a renewal requirement, it becomes meaningless. If you're relying on physical confiscation of the card, how does that work for the guy who hides his card, then goes on a killing spree? As soon as he gets out of jail (pardoned by some liberal terrorist Islamofascist, most likely) he just digs up his card and goes to the gun store. QuoteAs for caring if the gov knows how many, and what kind, etc of firearms one owns? I think that's obvious. Yes, President Obama, or President Hillary, or President Trump can't take all your guns if he doesn't know how many you have. Just because they know you have renewed your check ten times doesn't mean they know you have ten guns. If the card expires on a regular basis, renewal doesn't mean anything. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #27 January 19, 2016 DanGQuoteI'm on the other end. You are cleared until proven you aren't. no expiration. No regular or periodic fees, etc to keep your right. If the period is short, then it becomes a de facto intent to buy a firearm every time you renew or reapply, not a validation that you are responsible to exercise your rights as you see fit. If the card doesn't have a renewal requirement, it becomes meaningless. If you're relying on physical confiscation of the card, how does that work for the guy who hides his card, then goes on a killing spree? As soon as he gets out of jail (pardoned by some liberal terrorist Islamofascist, most likely) he just digs up his card and goes to the gun store. QuoteAs for caring if the gov knows how many, and what kind, etc of firearms one owns? I think that's obvious. Yes, President Obama, or President Hillary, or President Trump can't take all your guns if he doesn't know how many you have. Just because they know you have renewed your check ten times doesn't mean they know you have ten guns. If the card expires on a regular basis, renewal doesn't mean anything. It's not a good system. RFID, with location capability is better. That gives real time updates for validity.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #28 January 19, 2016 DanGThere shouldn't be any tracability to the gun, or to the seller. That will be the next step. Gun control advocates will start bitching that there is no accountability nor deterrent for transactions without background checks - they're practically unenforceable.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #29 January 20, 2016 DanG To clarify my position, I think background checks should be extended to cover all gun transfers. It should be free, paid for by general taxes. I can agree with this with the exception of the being paid for by general taxes. I think it should be paid for by the person paying into the general tax fund at the time of purchase just like any other taxable purchase. Then, that tax is earmarked to fund the database listings of the non-qualified. Maybe that is what you are trying to say. DanGI also think it is okay to require ID for voting, but that ID must not only be free, but must be easily and cheaply obtainable. [cut] Those states and localities that require a specific type of ID, only obtainable at certain DMVs at certain hours, are clearly trying to prevent people from being able to vote. Not clearly. Not at all. There is no real problem with obtaining anything from the DMV. People say a voting ID is too hard to get and obstructs people yet getting a driver's license is no big deal. It doesn't make sense. Besides that, with no voter ID there is massive voter fraud going on and nothing to prevent it. That's what got this whole voter ID thing so ramped up in the first place. I believe those that oppose voter ID are, in very real terms, enablers of voter fraud. They have, as yet, been unable to say how voter fraud can be minimized without voter ID. Nor have they been able to provide any other option to preventing voter fraud. How about those who have no DL or those home-bound who cannot make it to a registration point? Provision can be made to accomodate them with a simple visit to the home by a qualified voter registration provider. How about voting by mail? You send a photocopy of your ID along with the vote and it gets verified before your vote is counted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #30 January 20, 2016 DanGThere shouldn't be any tracability to the gun, or to the seller. Hmmm...Traceability is a tool for finding the fool that committed the crime with that weapon. I'm pretty sure LE will argue vehemently against no traceability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #31 January 20, 2016 Texbubbawith no voter ID there is massive voter fraud going on Sadly, wrong again. GOP mouthpieces SAY there is, but as usual, this is not backed up by any facts. In addition, generally the fraud that they are maintaining is happening, would not be solved by voter id anyway. So what they are actually pushing for is more government bureaucracy and red tape, with no benefit. Curious tactics for "conservatives", unless there is an ulterior motive such as.... hey let me think - disenfranchising the demographic of voters likely to vote for the opposition.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #32 January 20, 2016 Stumpy***with no voter ID there is massive voter fraud going on Sadly, wrong again. GOP mouthpieces SAY there is, but as usual, this is not backed up by any facts. Sadly, you will want to do some research on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #33 January 20, 2016 I'm unable to find any reports of massive voter fraud - anecdotal only. You must have lots - please provide a link.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #34 January 20, 2016 StumpyI'm unable to find any reports of massive voter fraud - anecdotal only. You must have lots - please provide a link. Google finds a lot. Here's one starting place: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=2216 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #35 January 20, 2016 Texbubba***I'm unable to find any reports of massive voter fraud - anecdotal only. You must have lots - please provide a link. Google finds a lot. Here's one starting place: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=2216 I have had a quick scan. Here's a hint for you. When just about every report in that list uses the words "possible", "alleged", "investigation into", "accusing" etc - that doesn't mean it's true. I believe if voter fraud happens, it's likely it happens on both sides, probably to a similar extent. Ideally it would be stopped, but most of the theoretical problems aren't solved by voter ID anyway. I get it though, you are all for big government where it suits you. The biggest case of voter fraud is actually called something else: gerrymandering.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #36 January 20, 2016 He doesn't understand the difference between voter registration fraud (which requiring ID at the ballot won't affect) and voter fraud. The concepts are way too complicated for some people. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #37 January 20, 2016 DanGHe doesn't understand the difference between voter registration fraud (which requiring ID at the ballot won't affect) and voter fraud. The concepts are way too complicated for some people. Typical. So quick to pull the "I'm smart, you're stupid" card. Over zealous ego? You didn't read the link, did you. Had you done so you would see examples of voter fraud, voter registration fraud, election fraud, and more. You sound as if you think those things are not inter-related. And also quite typical, you offer no potential solutions of you own. Sad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #38 January 20, 2016 StumpyI get it though, you are all for big government where it suits you. No, your quote there doesn't indicate that you do. It appears that any attempt at reducing voting fraud by the government is a nasty "big government conspiracy" of some sort that is trying to take away our rights as citizens. QuoteThe biggest case of voter fraud is actually called something else: gerrymandering. Nobody can argue that. https://pjmedia.com/zombie/2010/11/11/the-top-ten-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts-in-the-united-states/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #39 January 20, 2016 But it appears to be such a respecable web site! Excellent source for "news", "data", and "statistics". Oops, I mean emotional insanity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #40 January 20, 2016 normiss But it appears to be such a respecable web site! Excellent source for "news", "data", and "statistics". Oops, I mean emotional insanity. I didn't bother with the source but reading the language I suspected as much!Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #41 January 20, 2016 StumpyI have had a quick scan. Here's a hint for you. When just about every report in that list uses the words "possible", "alleged", "investigation into", "accusing" etc - that doesn't mean it's true. On the face of it, your statement is correct, yes. In this case related to the link, you assertions only point out the accusations and do not consider the outcome of those accusations. Had you actually read the articles, you would have seen that those "allegations" resulted in legal action against the perpetrators. QuoteI believe if voter fraud happens, it's likely it happens on both sides, probably to a similar extent. Ideally it would be stopped, but most of the theoretical problems aren't solved by voter ID anyway. Most is the keyword. Apparently, if it's not ALL then 'let's do nothing' is the attitude many take. Voter ID will solve several problems: - voting multiple times - voting under the name of others - voting out of precinct - voting by the dead - voting by non citizens just to name a few. Is anyone saying that they think these things should continue? Nobody yet has offered alternatives to stopping these things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #42 January 20, 2016 normiss But it appears to be such a respecable web site! Excellent source for "news", "data", and "statistics". Oops, I mean emotional insanity. So typical of the low-information groupies. The source is more important than the content. You obviously didn't read anything to decide the validity of truth vs fiction yet feel the need to bad-mouth them. You're exposing yourself. You'd do well to do more reading and less bad-mouthing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #43 January 20, 2016 Something is clearly wrong and nonfunctional with the mirrors in your home. You also paint with a large brush and encompass those who are not as you accuse them to be, which is typical when someone disagrees with you. Good day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #44 January 20, 2016 Texbubba ***I have had a quick scan. Here's a hint for you. When just about every report in that list uses the words "possible", "alleged", "investigation into", "accusing" etc - that doesn't mean it's true. On the face of it, your statement is correct, yes. In this case related to the link, you assertions only point out the accusations and do not consider the outcome of those accusations. Had you actually read the articles, you would have seen that a tiny number of those "allegations" resulted in legal action against the perpetrators. (Who were caught anyway, without voter ID requirements. Voter ID would not have helped.) Quote ***I believe if voter fraud happens, it's likely it happens on both sides, probably to a similar extent. Ideally it would be stopped, but most of the theoretical problems aren't solved by voter ID anyway. Most is the keyword. Apparently, if it's not ALL then 'let's do nothing' is the attitude many take. Voter ID will solve several problems: - voting multiple times - voting under the name of others - voting out of precinct - voting by the dead - voting by non citizens just to name a few. Is anyone saying that they think these things should continue? Nobody yet has offered alternatives to stopping these things. Aside from anything else, you might want to rethink your list somewhat If there was actually any real proof of any of these things happening you might have something to go on, but there isn't. If there was, the GOP would be much more successful in their disenfranchisement attempts. (Edited to fix markup)Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #45 January 20, 2016 But it's on the internets! It MUST be true! That silly web site has more lies, false accusations, and birther bull shit than actual content. But don't dismiss the one story used for justification of a stance due to the source, not by any means would that make sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #46 January 20, 2016 StumpyIf there was actually any real proof of any of these things happening you might have something to go on, but there isn't. If there was, the GOP would be much more successful in their disenfranchisement attempts. You'll want to do some research before being so sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #47 January 20, 2016 Is it run by the same guy as wattsupwiththat? Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #48 January 20, 2016 Texbubba***If there was actually any real proof of any of these things happening you might have something to go on, but there isn't. If there was, the GOP would be much more successful in their disenfranchisement attempts. You'll want to do some research before being so sure. You keep saying that, doesn't stop you STILL being wrong.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Texbubba 0 #49 January 20, 2016 StumpyYou keep saying that, doesn't stop you STILL being wrong. lol stay uninformed. It's OK. Bye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #50 January 20, 2016 Not doing any research - Wiki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
