Regulating Freedom Away

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

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Certain individual rights can be taken away under due process.

Why certain rights? Are rights rights or are some rights less righty than other rights? And if they are less righty then at some point they surely start to get somewhat privilegy.

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But you know that,

Give yourself a gold star. When you catch up with the rest of the conversation you'll find out that wasn't under debate.

Just for clarification, and hopefully show you that your pompous, better than everyone else, illusion of yourself is wholly false . . .

There is a small difference in those things called inalienable rights, and what you were illusions to.

Does it make you feel better about yourself when you try to talk down to people?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 622]

Hey look! It's the Kettle vs. Pot discussion.
Again.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

Hey look! It's the Kettle vs. Pot discussion.
Again.

Are trying to be the k or the p?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,254]

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There is a small difference in those things called inalienable rights, and what you were illusions to.

We were talking about constitutional rights.

But all the inalienable rights enumerated in the DoI can also be taken away by the government (and are taken away by yours at an unprecedented rate) so I'm not sure if I see the difference there.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

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There is a small difference in those things called inalienable rights, and what you were illusions to.

We were talking about constitutional rights.

But all the inalienable rights enumerated in the DoI can also be taken away by the government (and are taken away by yours at an unprecedented rate) so I'm not sure if I see the difference there.

Generally, not. Special conditions, yes.

The right to free speech is revoked in a way if you yell fire in a public theatre.

Your right to bear arms is revoked when you are a convicted felon.

Just to name 2

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Darius11 12]

people simply need to wake up and understand the nature of people who want power is that they always want more power. What keeps you and I safe and allows us to have rights is that we can rise up and kill the people who go to far in taking away our rights. The way the powers that be go beyond that and take all the rights you want/have is to eliminate the peoples ability to kill and fight back. The only thing most power hungry people love more then power is their own life.

This is the case and will be the case until we all evolve beyond that if we are even capable of such an evolution.

Rights are what you don't allow them to get away with or take away from you and your fellow citizens.

We all have amnesia at least most do, you don't have to look that far in history and even currently to see what people who can not defend themselves have to put up with. It is asinine to think we are better people just by nature and such things could not happen here. We are the same people as these places where the average citizens are persecuted by the powers that be, the only difference is we have the tools to kill the people who come and try to take those rights away.

Are mistake is we believe the prosperity and freedom we enjoy is natural force not a fight that must be waged daily, and a fight that if we fall asleep on it will take oceans of blood to get back. as always prevention is the key and nothing not even your rights are guaranteed.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

turtlespeed

***

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There is a small difference in those things called inalienable rights, and what you were illusions to.

We were talking about constitutional rights.

But all the inalienable rights enumerated in the DoI can also be taken away by the government (and are taken away by yours at an unprecedented rate) so I'm not sure if I see the difference there.

Generally, not. Special conditions, yes.

The right to free speech is revoked in a way if you yell fire in a public theatre.

Your right to bear arms is revoked when you are a convicted felon.

Just to name 2

How about when they say you can't fly the confederate flag?
The problem is our society has separated it self in too groups just as they want. We should all be pissed black, white, yellow and tan.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Darius11

How about when they say you can't fly the confederate flag?
The problem is our society has separated it self in too groups just as they want. We should all be pissed black, white, yellow and tan.

Where is it that the Confederate flag can't be flown?

I'm not talking about over government buildings, where the people (who are supposed to be in charge) say "I don't want my government flying that flag."

I'm talking about individuals being prevented by the government from displaying it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Darius11 12]

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I'm not talking about over government buildings

i was.

There was all this debate a few months back, the slippery slope of feelings/fear/ignorance justifying law i have a huge issue with that.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[quade 3]

Darius11

...the slippery slope of feelings/fear/ignorance justifying law i have a huge issue with that.

Um . . . yes . . . ignorance is a huge problem here.

Just not they way you think it is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Darius11 12]

most who lack actual life experience and wisdom preach a lot of certainty. It would do them good to realize nothing is guaranteed.

As for ignorance depends who is doing the calling as to if it matters at all, i was called a traitor, unpatriotic now more then a decade all they call me is RIGHT, and none of it matters

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 18]

normiss

Hey look! It's the Kettle vs. Pot discussion.
Again.

Irony score off the charts......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,254]

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Generally, not.

Generally yes. You revoke more liberty and happiness than pretty much any other functioning government on the planet and more life than most except for the governments you hate for being too barbaric. Go figure.

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The right to free speech is revoked in a way if you yell fire in a public theatre.

Your right to bear arms is revoked when you are a convicted felon.

Just to name 2

Wow. Thanks for that brand new information. Anything else you want to do to make my point for me?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

Darius11

******

Quote

There is a small difference in those things called inalienable rights, and what you were illusions to.

We were talking about constitutional rights.

But all the inalienable rights enumerated in the DoI can also be taken away by the government (and are taken away by yours at an unprecedented rate) so I'm not sure if I see the difference there.

Generally, not. Special conditions, yes.

The right to free speech is revoked in a way if you yell fire in a public theatre.

Your right to bear arms is revoked when you are a convicted felon.

Just to name 2

How about when they say you can't fly the confederate flag?
The problem is our society has separated it self in too groups just as they want. We should all be pissed black, white, yellow and tan.

No one ever made it law for an individual to fly the confederate flag.
It is unlawful for a government institution to fly that particular flag.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

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Generally, not.

Generally yes. You revoke more liberty and happiness than pretty much any other functioning government on the planet and more life than most except for the governments you hate for being too barbaric. Go figure.

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The right to free speech is revoked in a way if you yell fire in a public theatre.

Your right to bear arms is revoked when you are a convicted felon.

Just to name 2

Wow. Thanks for that brand new information. Anything else you want to do to make my point for me?

Oh, we all could enlighten you, but we'd get banned.
What . . Is . . . Your point?

You just seem to like seeing the words you type appear before you.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[headoverheels 291]

I see people splitting lanes every day here in California, unless perhaps it is raining so heavily that few bikes are out.

It wouldn't bother me if it were made totally illegal to split lanes. I cannot see how splitting lanes would be viewed as some sort of right.

[jakee 1,254]

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What . . Is . . . Your point?

It's pretty simple. Driving is a right, the fact that it can be reguated or taken away for a particular person doesn't make it just a privilege because rights can be taken away too.

I don't think that was so difficult to understand, because everyone else seemed to be grasping the course of the conversation. Until you came in and tried to cut me down to size by explaining that rights can be taken away. Which was my point anyway.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

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What . . Is . . . Your point?

It's pretty simple. Driving is a right, the fact that it can be reguated or taken away for a particular person doesn't make it just a privilege because rights can be taken away too.

I don't think that was so difficult to understand, because everyone else seemed to be grasping the course of the conversation. Until you came in and tried to cut me down to size by explaining that rights can be taken away. Which was my point anyway.

Do you have to take a certification test to have free speech?
Do you have to pass a practical exam to be guaranteed representation in court?
Do you have to have a liscense to to own any firearms?
Do you need to have a liscense to own property?
Do you have to have a liscense to travel inside the us and its territories?

Rights are things that can be limited, yes.

Some can be suspended for your behavior.

Driving isn't ans shouldn't be a right.

Can you legally own a firearm if you are blind?
What about legal representation, does that fade away if you are blind?
Blind people maybe cannot own property, or travel, right?

Well, if driving is a right, then . . . Everyone has that right.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,254]

turtlespeed

Driving isn't ans shouldn't be a right.

Why not?

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Well, if driving is a right, then . . . Everyone has that right.

To be excercised within a certain set of criteria for the protection of the rest of society, yeah. Just like other rights.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

***Driving isn't ans shouldn't be a right.

Why not?

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Well, if driving is a right, then . . . Everyone has that right.

To be excercised within a certain set of criteria for the protection of the rest of society, yeah. Just like other rights.

I see, so you are in favor of discriminating against blind folk.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,121]

Driving is not an enumerated right (like free speech), but one that exists in the US because the constitution says that if its not specifically limited, it's a right.

That said, it's not viewed the same because it's not specifically enumerated. I kind of like the arrangement -- it highlights the ones that really have to be discussed before being limited, vs the ones that need to be discussed .

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,254]

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I see, so you are in favor of discriminating against blind folk.

You don't see much of anything. I think your DL might be in danger.

The right to drive can be limited to protect public safety for things like being blind that have a direct affect on the excercise of that right.

Compare to other specifically enumerated rights which can be taken away for reasons utterly unrelated to the excercise of those rights.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

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I see, so you are in favor of discriminating against blind folk.

You don't see much of anything. I think your DL might be in danger.

The right to drive can be limited to protect public safety for things like being blind that have a direct affect on the excercise of that right.

Compare to other specifically enumerated rights which can be taken away for reasons utterly unrelated to the excercise of those rights.

Driving is not a right anymore than riding a motorcycle is a right.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

Driving isn't and shouldn't be a right.

Just curious - you never really answered the question - why shouldn't driving be a right?

It would seem that on the surface, driving has more of a direct impact on our daily lives than any other rights - hell, most enumerated rights are only exercised if you just happen to find yourself in some really shitty situation.

As for the others, well:

- Today, free speech is overrated and primarily used as an excuse to be a total douche bag.

- My Dad always told me, "You go to work, you keep your mouth shut, and do your fucking job." - No free speech needed, but I still had to drive.

- I don't need to go to church to express my faith, nor do I have to do it publicly - but if I did, I'd prefer to drive.

- If I ever feel compelled to actually petition anyone, it might as well be for the right to drive - maybe even cite the 9th.

- If you look at motor vehicles and driving in the same light as firearms and concealed carry/hunting, then again, why shouldn't driving be a right?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,254]

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Driving is not a right...

Yeah, you said that.

But why isn't it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?