Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

[rehmwa 2]

jakee

you'd have to compare it to a young black person who you already know for sure was doing something illegal, was posting internet videos about an armed fight against the government and the police, and who the people he was with (not just the cops) say attacked police officers.

Even then you can't say yet that the shooting was justified, but I think you can say that it was an outcome of the kind he was likely trying to provoke.

How about a huge young man, with posted videos of him beating on other and weaker individuals in a cruel way, who just left the scene of him stealing stuff and being abusive to a shopkeeper, who talked tough and hated the cops, with bystanders who say he attacked the cop in his car. Even then, you can't say yet that the shooting was justified, but likely it was after all the evidence was in and at the worst he certainly provoked his own death?

not that any of us are referencing anything of the sort.....just a hypothetical

I mean, it's not like an entire social movement would use these guys as a (really crappy) poster child for their cause and then cause a lot of ruckus to push their agenda (which might even have a reasonable basis, but unfortunately this one example is a shit example when much better ones likely exist).....that shit never happens.




and, certainly, at least total outsiders would NEVER take (financial/political) advantage of any hypothetical situation where, let's imagine, a stubborn and slightly corrupt gov agency butts heads with stubborn and slightly corrupt private citizens and it gets blown out of proportion and then out of control and is an embarrassment to the whole planet. no one would do that....I'm sure you can't even buy t-shirts on the internet "I survived the occupation of Malheur - 2016"

hypothetically

I'm waiting see how memes on this are going to be used to hack on trump/obama/hillary/bernie/cruz etc etc etc that should be creative

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ryoder 1,381]

Press conference with the County Sheriff: http://kval.com/news/local/transcript-fbi-special-agent-on-events-in-harney-county

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,381]

Sounds like the rebellion has fizzled out: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/occupiers_begin_to_trickle_out.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Militia lives matter!

Not really.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

Quote

Militia lives matter!

Not really.

How tolerant of you.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,121]

I am not tolerant at all.

[turtlespeed 212]

SkyDekker

I am not tolerant at all.

We gather that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

I am not tolerant at all.

Well, I have not agreed with you in a long time
I do agree with you here however

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Well, I have not agreed with you in a long time

Thankfully.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

Well, I have not agreed with you in a long time

Thankfully.

Amen

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ryoder 1,381]

Aerial footage of the shooting, and what I'm seeing so far isn't supporting the story that Lavoy "charged" the LEO's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

You may want to jump to 9:10 where the second stop occurs.

It is also obvious that Ryan Bundy was shot when the LEO's repeatedly pumped shots into the closed passengers windows.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

***I am not tolerant at all.

We gather that.

He's as tolerant as a liberal could ever be:
http://40.media.tumblr.com/f47ed460f6c499ee226013457d0f318a/tumblr_mtsedg7Sug1rudjcro1_500.jpg

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 1,903]

ryoder

Aerial footage of the shooting, and what I'm seeing so far isn't supporting the story that Lavoy "charged" the LEO's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

You may want to jump to 9:10 where the second stop occurs.

It looks to me like he "charges" out of the van at no one in particular, but he exits it very quickly and no one else does. He appears to have his hand up, or at least extended outward, but then clearly reaches for something on this belt when the armed officer approaches. After that another officer approaches from the opposite direction. It's not clear enough to see a weapon, maybe he is reaching for a cell phone. But definitely is not in a surrendering posture when he is shot.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Coreeece

******I am not tolerant at all.

We gather that.

He's as tolerant as a liberal could ever be:
http://40.media.tumblr.com/f47ed460f6c499ee226013457d0f318a/tumblr_mtsedg7Sug1rudjcro1_500.jpg

I am as tolerant of a white militia man as you are of a black gangbanger. Quite frankly I see very little difference.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

ryoder

Aerial footage of the shooting, and what I'm seeing so far isn't supporting the story that Lavoy "charged" the LEO's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

You may want to jump to 9:10 where the second stop occurs.

It is also obvious that Ryan Bundy was shot when the LEO's repeatedly pumped shots into the closed passengers windows.

Looks like he is conflicted about what he wants to do, surrender or shoot. His fantasy of how this was going to play out is known, he wrote it in his book:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZswE9tWYAAFdP5.jpg

Story is similar to some of the statements that get made on here of how people are going to "save the day" with their guns. The video reminds me of reality trumping fantasy.

[normiss 620]

White privilege.

[rhaig 0]

gowlerk

It looks to me like he "charges" out of the van at no one in particular, but he exits it very quickly and no one else does. He appears to have his hand up, or at least extended outward, but then clearly reaches for something on this belt when the armed officer approaches. After that another officer approaches from the opposite direction. It's not clear enough to see a weapon, maybe he is reaching for a cell phone. But definitely is not in a surrendering posture when he is shot.

yup... so what we have here is video that doesn't match either side's story. He wasn't charging at officers, nor was he clearly surrendering when he was shot.

So is this a case of reality not matching recollection, or fabricated stories on both sides?

Some will ask why that matters. And in this specific legal case it may not. But if it's fabrication on both sides, it makes you wonder why both sides need to fabricate a story.

I'm sure someone will offer me tinfoil now. I'll wrap my sandwich in it. Thank you.

--
Rob

[SkyDekker 1,121]

rhaig

***
It looks to me like he "charges" out of the van at no one in particular, but he exits it very quickly and no one else does. He appears to have his hand up, or at least extended outward, but then clearly reaches for something on this belt when the armed officer approaches. After that another officer approaches from the opposite direction. It's not clear enough to see a weapon, maybe he is reaching for a cell phone. But definitely is not in a surrendering posture when he is shot.

yup... so what we have here is video that doesn't match either side's story. He wasn't charging at officers, nor was he clearly surrendering when he was shot.

So is this a case of reality not matching recollection, or fabricated stories on both sides?

Some will ask why that matters. And in this specific legal case it may not. But if it's fabrication on both sides, it makes you wonder why both sides need to fabricate a story.

I'm sure someone will offer me tinfoil now. I'll wrap my sandwich in it. Thank you.

Considering how quickly the video was released, it is a little harder to continue the fabricated story part.

Also important to note the OSP shot him, not anybody from a federal agency.

[normiss 620]

I believe cops have repeatedly called it "charging" when someone tries to run them down, just like he did in this case.
IMO, he clearly charged them.

[GD64 1]

He was not wearing his hog leg. He was not carrying his saddle carbine. His hands were in the air, however, one drops as he is gut shot and finished off at close range.

The truck is lit up with 100 rounds plus or minus, and CS gas fired into interior. Zero out going rounds.

Was LE wearing body cams?

Edited with new info....a loaded 9 was found in jacket.

[quade 3]

normiss

I believe cops have repeatedly called it "charging" when someone tries to run them down, just like he did in this case.
IMO, he clearly charged them.

I'm not sure I ever heard a statement from the FBI or other police regarding "charging." I believe that word came from the video linked to in this post.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4780802#4780802

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

I believe cops have repeatedly called it "charging" when someone tries to run them down, just like he did in this case.
IMO, he clearly charged them.

I don't think he tried to run anyone down. He tried to dodge the roadblock but was so close when that cop jumped out in front of his car there was sod all he could to to avoid him.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

jakee

Quote

I believe cops have repeatedly called it "charging" when someone tries to run them down, just like he did in this case.
IMO, he clearly charged them.

I don't think he tried to run anyone down. He tried to dodge the roadblock but was so close when that cop jumped out in front of his car there was sod all he could to to avoid him.

Isn't it reasonable to think there are people around a road block and trying to run over, through or around it is going to reasonably put people at danger?

He was doing nothing but actively resisting apprehension, running away from police and trying to evade a road block. I mean other than doing no one of that, there was nothing he could do?

[jakee 1,254]

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Isn't it reasonable to think there are people around a road block and trying to run over, through or around it is going to reasonably put people at danger?

I highly doubt there were many reasonable thoughts running through his head at that point. Still, there is a difference between driving dangerously and trying to run someone over.

Quote

He was doing nothing but actively resisting apprehension, running away from police and trying to evade a road block. I mean other than doing no one of that, there was nothing he could do?

The only thing I'm saying is what I said.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 620]

I'm curious at what a cop thinks about someone driving towards their roadblock like that.

Amazing he was the only one killed.